CT Only: Skills in the Other career

[atpollard]

So I recently decided to join a game playing Classic Traveller, LBB 1-3 only, Rules as Written (no house rules).

Never one to take the easy road, I decided to take a shot at being from the 'OTHER' career.

Should the skill acquisition be subject to errata?
Two skills first term and one skill per term thereafter, period.
No commission and no promotion means no other chances to earn skills.

The Scouts had a similar situation (no rank or promotion) but adjusted that with getting 2 skills per term. This really feels more like a bug than a feature. If Marc didn't want people to play characters from the 'other' class, it would have been simpler to leave the class out of the book rather than creating a class that earns half the number of skills as other classes.

Have I missed something?

 

[Marchand]

I don't think you've missed anything. Some Supp 4 careers are similarly disadvantaged.

By the way, Other is the only Book 1 career not to get any automatic rank and service skills, too.

That said, they're the only Book 1 career that can get Forgery skill. If I read the rules correctly (6+ to detect forged docs, -2 per level of forger skill - er, I think it must mean +2) then forgeries produced by a Forger-4 are ordinarily undetectable. Pretty nice to have.

 

[mike wightman]

Yes this should be errata.

The 81 revision of CT gave Scouts 2 skills per term but forgot about Others and CotI careers.

MegaTraveller changed it to give all the careers with no position/promotion rolls 2 skills per term.

 

[Jame]

This is what led to my house rule of "if using book 2 or sup 4 careers, characters can gain a level in any non-listed skill once subject to GM approval."

 

[Supplement Four]

I'd just play it as written. Not all careers are the same. That's life.

 

[atpollard]

I'd just play it as written. Not all careers are the same. That's life.

I am playing it as written, but when 5 of 6 careers are roughly equal and 1 career is dramatically inferior, that seems like a flaw in game design.

The fact that exactly the same issue was adjusted from the 1977 to 1981 editions by changing the Scout Career to 2 skills per term, suggests that the issue may be real and has a simple solution.

(Plus I get to complain about something from 30 years ago ... a Traveller Grognard tradition. )

 

[rancke]

I am playing it as written, but when 5 of 6 careers are roughly equal and 1 career is dramatically inferior, that seems like a flaw in game design.

So if Don decides, 37 years later, to errata the rules for skill acquisition in the Other career, you will consider that as part of the Rules as Written, but otherwise you don't feel entitled to change it, even if you think it's a bona fide mistake? Or are you trying to get ammunition in an argument with a referee who's running a RaW CT campaign that you're in?


Hans

 

[atpollard]

So if Don decides, 37 years later, to errata the rules for skill acquisition in the Other career, you will consider that as part of the Rules as Written, but otherwise you don't feel entitled to change it, even if you think it's a bona fide mistake? Or are you trying to get ammunition in an argument with a referee who's running a RaW CT campaign that you're in?

Hans

Nothing like that.
For the game that I am participating in, it is strictly RAW with the Referee making all of the final decisions. Many of the players claim to have always wanted to try Traveller, but this is their first time ... so my goal is just to put together a 'sidekick' character to help out with the less common skills and give them a chance to be the heroes. So none of this discussion will impact that game at all.

I actually prefer CT and the Traveller book (I think advanced chargen has too many skills for a 2D6 core mechanic), but I am more typically drawn to the Navy and Merchant careers. This is just the first time that I ever looked really closely at the LBB1 OTHER career and I was surprised and disappointed by what I found.

I have played with the Scout career before, and while it is in many ways different from the Navy and Merchant that I love, it never felt inferior. The Other career feels not merely inferior, but overwhelmingly inferior. Enough to make me ask 'why the heck would anyone choose Other?'

That gut reaction, prompted this topic to see if I had missed something or if this was a common general perception of the career.

Given how short the time was before Advanced Chargen began to eclipse Basic Chargen, even if it is a 'fatal flaw' in the Other Career, it matters little to most Classic Traveller players. I was more curious if it was ever the intent that the Scout (2 skill per term) fix was also intended to apply to the Other career.

 

[RandyB]

Nothing like that.
For the game that I am participating in, it is strictly RAW with the Referee making all of the final decisions. Many of the players claim to have always wanted to try Traveller, but this is their first time ... so my goal is just to put together a 'sidekick' character to help out with the less common skills and give them a chance to be the heroes. So none of this discussion will impact that game at all.

I actually prefer CT and the Traveller book (I think advanced chargen has too many skills for a 2D6 core mechanic), but I am more typically drawn to the Navy and Merchant careers. This is just the first time that I ever looked really closely at the LBB1 OTHER career and I was surprised and disappointed by what I found.

I have played with the Scout career before, and while it is in many ways different from the Navy and Merchant that I love, it never felt inferior. The Other career feels not merely inferior, but overwhelmingly inferior. Enough to make me ask 'why the heck would anyone choose Other?'

That gut reaction, prompted this topic to see if I had missed something or if this was a common general perception of the career.

Given how short the time was before Advanced Chargen began to eclipse Basic Chargen, even if it is a 'fatal flaw' in the Other Career, it matters little to most Classic Traveller players. I was more curious if it was ever the intent that the Scout (2 skill per term) fix was also intended to apply to the Other career.

Well, if you fail enlistment and get an unlucky Draft die roll, you get 'drafted' into Other. Maybe it was intended as the 'least desirable result'.

 

[Timerover51]

I always viewed the "Other" career as something to use for NPCs, or for a player that gets bounced out of his chosen career after one or two terms. I know that the latter is not in the rules either, having two careers.

 

[BlackBat242]

However, I have yet to see a convincing case that two careers is against the rules, either.

Having more than one career during chargen was a part of CT in every group I played in in the 1980s - starting in 1983.

Here was the first time I ran into anyone who said you were supposed to have only one career.

 

[aramis]

However, I have yet to see a convincing case that two careers is against the rules, either.

Having more than one career during chargen was a part of CT in every group I played in in the 1980s - starting in 1983.

Here was the first time I ran into anyone who said you were supposed to have only one career.

You're only allowed one attempt per character to enlist.

TTB 18 shows the following:

Only one enlistment attempt is permitted per character.
If rejected for enlistment, he must submit to the draft.
Enlistment or draft is not allowed after age 18.​

It's blackletter rules that only 18 year old characters may use the book 2 enlistment process.

 

[Jame]

You're only allowed one attempt per character to enlist.

TTB 18 shows the following:

Only one enlistment attempt is permitted per character.
If rejected for enlistment, he must submit to the draft.
Enlistment or draft is not allowed after age 18.​

It's blackletter rules that only 18 year old characters may use the book 2 enlistment process.

I see nothing wrong with having a 1/2 or 1-2 term character, but if a player feels this is short, especially compared to the other players, I'd happily ignore this rule.

But then, I did run a one-shot MGT 2300 AD for my fiancee and a friend of ours, and each of them had rolled mishaps in their first careers. It was their first time with any Traveller (well, my fiancee had partaken of a CT game, but she'd been handed a pregen). So I figured to reroll that one mishap so they wouldn't be spoiled on Traveller character generation, so we could possibly play again.

 

[aramis]

I see nothing wrong with having a 1/2 or 1-2 term character, but if a player feels this is short, especially compared to the other players, I'd happily ignore this rule.

But then, I did run a one-shot MGT 2300 AD for my fiancee and a friend of ours, and each of them had rolled mishaps in their first careers. It was their first time with any Traveller (well, my fiancee had partaken of a CT game, but she'd been handed a pregen). So I figured to reroll that one mishap so they wouldn't be spoiled on Traveller character generation, so we could possibly play again.

MGT explicitly allows multiple careers. CT pretty explicitly doesn't.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Well, if you fail enlistment and get an unlucky Draft die roll, you get 'drafted' into Other. Maybe it was intended as the 'least desirable result'.

Yep, an extra "kick while you're down" for players who roll abominable stats with a GM who insists on RAW, Ironman, play-the-first-character-who-survives-chargen. So not only do you have a character w lousy stats who is less able to enlist in the career of your preference, but you also get to have fewer skills than the rest of the group. Fun Fun Fun, according to some people. o: :nonono:

 

[Jame]

MGT explicitly allows multiple careers. CT pretty explicitly doesn't.

True, and we were using MgT at the time. Still, I've adopted the rule for all iterations of Traveller that I would run, should I ever run.

 

[rancke]

Yep, an extra "kick while you're down" for players who roll abominable stats with a GM who insists on RAW, Ironman, play-the-first-character-who-survives-chargen. So not only do you have a character w lousy stats who is less able to enlist in the career of your preference, but you also get to have fewer skills than the rest of the group. Fun Fun Fun, according to some people. o: :nonono:

But it's Classic Traveller, the epitome of roleplaying games, never surpassed, never equalled. It HAS to be fun! By definition! And without no steenkeeng houseruling!


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

Surpassed only by T5 don't you mean...

 

[Marchand]

Yep, an extra "kick while you're down" for players who roll abominable stats with a GM who insists on RAW, Ironman, play-the-first-character-who-survives-chargen. So not only do you have a character w lousy stats who is less able to enlist in the career of your preference, but you also get to have fewer skills than the rest of the group. Fun Fun Fun, according to some people. o: :nonono:

My favourite character I ever played was in an MGT game where I couldn't get into any career except Drifter, and I couldn't get promoted in that either. Still a hoot to play.

By which I mean, I don't care if my character isn't as "powerful" as the next guy's. We're all just making up a story about spacemen so who cares anyway? I never really understood the min-maxing mentality, which is probably why I don't get GURPS.

And anyway, as I said earlier... only career to get Forgery skill. Think of the possibilities...

 

[SpaceBadger]

My favourite character I ever played was in an MGT game where I couldn't get into any career except Drifter, and I couldn't get promoted in that either. Still a hoot to play.

By which I mean, I don't care if my character isn't as "powerful" as the next guy's. We're all just making up a story about spacemen so who cares anyway? I never really understood the min-maxing mentality, which is probably why I don't get GURPS.

And anyway, as I said earlier... only career to get Forgery skill. Think of the possibilities...

It isn't about being "powerful" or min-maxing. :nonono:

It is about playing a character that fits a certain concept.

I don't have enough gaming time to waste it playing some guy who doesn't interest me, just because that's what the dice spit out. :nonono: