Secrect Cow Level
SOC-12
WOTC announced a year ago that they had dropped all plans to do a d20 version of DUNE. Sorry! 
Smoke and Mirrors?
- Thread starter Vargas
- Start date
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
my traveller history:
14 - 18 several games with high school friends using CT
19 - ?? Mostly playing MT with myself. Zillions of characters made. And plenty of books bought, many bought with no hope of playing, but just to submerse myself in the universe.
Missed TNE (thank god) except for the first book in the novelization (death of wisdom?) Trilogy.
33 - 35 Buy Gt core book. discard it. recieve an old copy of T4 as a gift/debt repayment. Shanghai members of my local caming club into three abortive campaigns and two one shot adventures. More Traveller than I've played in at least a decade.
T4 and my mix of CT MT and homebrew will work. My players are happy with it. T20 got me all pumped up Imagining it would be like the starwars book (Only bettter because it was TRAVELLER) for Traveller. The greater the height the deeper the crash.
I'm not leaving Coti, I may still, (traveller is an abiding love after all), submit Library data, news and maybe even some paid articles to FFE's web site. but I have utterly lost interest in T20.
WotC suck.(friggin CHISELER'S) -- when they change their policy so that I can buy one book from FFE for all I need. Then I may be interested. Not before.
Until I discovered t20 I was seriously considering buying the StarWars book. Now I refuse to. I don't like being pushed. I probably won't buy any D&D product and instead continue to borrow from my fellow players in that game. This is a direct reversal of my prior attitude before learning of that despicable policy.
This is not a stand against FFE and I'm sorry you suffer for it. I refuse to buy a complete book that isn't complete. And for what little it's worth from one desultry player I'm now personally boycotting WotC's products.
The money I save not buying T20+d20 will buy me a lot of pewter minitures from another bunch of chiselers. Or maybe allow me to get the complete 'reprint' collection of CT -- or CT's adventures.
Sounds like a deal to me. FFE won't lose out. I have no doubt I'll be buying traveller product. Just not anything to do with WotC.
Garf
14 - 18 several games with high school friends using CT
19 - ?? Mostly playing MT with myself. Zillions of characters made. And plenty of books bought, many bought with no hope of playing, but just to submerse myself in the universe.
Missed TNE (thank god) except for the first book in the novelization (death of wisdom?) Trilogy.
33 - 35 Buy Gt core book. discard it. recieve an old copy of T4 as a gift/debt repayment. Shanghai members of my local caming club into three abortive campaigns and two one shot adventures. More Traveller than I've played in at least a decade.
T4 and my mix of CT MT and homebrew will work. My players are happy with it. T20 got me all pumped up Imagining it would be like the starwars book (Only bettter because it was TRAVELLER) for Traveller. The greater the height the deeper the crash.
I'm not leaving Coti, I may still, (traveller is an abiding love after all), submit Library data, news and maybe even some paid articles to FFE's web site. but I have utterly lost interest in T20.
WotC suck.(friggin CHISELER'S) -- when they change their policy so that I can buy one book from FFE for all I need. Then I may be interested. Not before.
Until I discovered t20 I was seriously considering buying the StarWars book. Now I refuse to. I don't like being pushed. I probably won't buy any D&D product and instead continue to borrow from my fellow players in that game. This is a direct reversal of my prior attitude before learning of that despicable policy.
This is not a stand against FFE and I'm sorry you suffer for it. I refuse to buy a complete book that isn't complete. And for what little it's worth from one desultry player I'm now personally boycotting WotC's products.
The money I save not buying T20+d20 will buy me a lot of pewter minitures from another bunch of chiselers. Or maybe allow me to get the complete 'reprint' collection of CT -- or CT's adventures.
Sounds like a deal to me. FFE won't lose out. I have no doubt I'll be buying traveller product. Just not anything to do with WotC.
Garf
Garf -- I couldn't agree more about WotC and how I feel about this crap.
Once I get this thing figured out I'll send you a note with the details you'll need to make T20 work. There's a lot of cool stuff in the book (I have the playtest version) and I'm buying it because of that. I will not, however, spend another dime on an actual WotC product until they change this policy.
"Open gaming" indeed. What a load of fertilizer.
Once I get this thing figured out I'll send you a note with the details you'll need to make T20 work. There's a lot of cool stuff in the book (I have the playtest version) and I'm buying it because of that. I will not, however, spend another dime on an actual WotC product until they change this policy.
"Open gaming" indeed. What a load of fertilizer.
jalexandratos
SOC-8
Open gaming indeed!!! Look, d20 and the OGL are allowing a renessiance that hasn't been seen since this industry first started off. When was the last time you saw quality products put out by any company? When was the last time a 3rd party company was allowed to put out products w/out paying a hefty licensing fee?
Oh, I'm sorry, WoTC said "hey, we'll create the mechanics and, let you make supplements and other games derived from these mechanics, with the only real hitch being that you can reference, but can't reprint the core rules".
Boo hoo.
If this was really such a bad policy, companies wouldn't be cranking out d20 games like there's no tomorrow. 80% of the stuff flying off the shelves at my local gaming store wouldn't be d20 based.
If this was really such a bad policy, Hunter wouldn't be taking a chance on T20, and we'd be here talking about T5.
If this was really such a bad policy, it wouldn't be working as well as it has. And let's be honest. If it's one thing this industry has needed for the past 5 years it's been the revitalization of RPG's!
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
I'd buy your line if WotC would actually produce a basic generic 'game mechanics' book for less than one of their 'core rules' books. Since they don't They're Chiseling me for the price of a game I don't want.
As for the so called re-flowering of gaming.... Doesn't do me any good if I still can't find players. And hasn't done me any good if I find players who don't play WotC which is most of the ones I know.
Garf.
As for the so called re-flowering of gaming.... Doesn't do me any good if I still can't find players. And hasn't done me any good if I find players who don't play WotC which is most of the ones I know.
Garf.
Despite the use of the name Open Gaming, we could compare WotC policy with Microsoft's. You could say that d20 is equivalent of an Operational System. You have to buy the PHB or any other WotC's games to run d20 games much like you need to buy any flavor of Windows to actually use other companies software.
I don't like this strategy to be know as "Open Gaming" because I think it is misleading. However, it is obvious that d20 players are being benefited for much more variety than they actually got when D&D was a house system. Unlucky of me for not liking d20...
I don't like this strategy to be know as "Open Gaming" because I think it is misleading. However, it is obvious that d20 players are being benefited for much more variety than they actually got when D&D was a house system. Unlucky of me for not liking d20...
Shrug. This really sounds rather like sour grapes to me.
A quick google search will find you everything you need to know without ever buying a horrible WOTC book. Of, if you aren't bothered by the legalities involved, I'm sure that a pdf of the PHB could be found on usenet. Or xerox a couple of pages. Whatever. The fact is this only a problem because you choose to make it a problem.
No one has _ever_ said that this was a completely standalone product. Since day one it was presented as a D20 compliant game that would require one of the WOTC core books to be complete. You don't like DnD? That's fine. Buy Call of Cthulhu instead. It's a core book too and contains the full character creation rules.
But please consider that you may have beaten this horse to death already.
William
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Oh indeed. I probably have (flogged a dead horse). I didn't mean to make a debate about it.
As for Sour Grapes? Probably, I don't care what "no one has claimed", I stumbled onto T20 very recently, almost by accident. Aside from a couple of games played with other players rule books WotC's product have scarcely crossed my horizon until now. The only TSR product I've owned is 'Top Secret'. This policy of WotC's: "you are free to play a game using our wonderful mechanics as long a you buy one of our games, even if you don't want to".
I don't like having my arm twisted. I am contrary by nature. Discovering that attitude yesterday, cost WotC any sales to me. Period.
I am also "not worried about legalities" but I do have my own ethics. (not to claim high moral ground here. my code evolved over years And taking into account computer programs, music tapes, etc. I have hardly been innocent of copyright violations). But if someone has a copyright I respect it. I may deplore what consider abuse of it. I think think they're a bunch of chiselers for what the demand in exchange for use of their intellectual property. I may even choose not to pay their price even if it means not 'enjoying' some of their product.
Why would I buy their Cthulu? I have the real thing.
Why would I buy two games in order to play one? every generic system prior to this has at least had the decency to seperate out it's core rules into a generic source. (GURPS is very clumsy about it but such is life).
I apologise if any of the above borders on flames. I apologise if I have stepped on the toes of anyone who worships at the feet of the new Microsoft of gaming. I'm probably overly emotional at this point. I was really excited about T20 and beginning to entertain the possibility of buying some d20 products not related to traveler as a result. Not any more.
anyhow. I promise to read any further posts on this matter. but I think I've said all I need to say.
That's -not- say I won't say more if I feel the need then. Heck, when I've cooled off, and if presented with some rational arguments that I buy, I may even reverse myself. (though I can be pretty stubborn).
But right now I think I've said enough.
Garf
As for Sour Grapes? Probably, I don't care what "no one has claimed", I stumbled onto T20 very recently, almost by accident. Aside from a couple of games played with other players rule books WotC's product have scarcely crossed my horizon until now. The only TSR product I've owned is 'Top Secret'. This policy of WotC's: "you are free to play a game using our wonderful mechanics as long a you buy one of our games, even if you don't want to".
I don't like having my arm twisted. I am contrary by nature. Discovering that attitude yesterday, cost WotC any sales to me. Period.
I am also "not worried about legalities" but I do have my own ethics. (not to claim high moral ground here. my code evolved over years And taking into account computer programs, music tapes, etc. I have hardly been innocent of copyright violations). But if someone has a copyright I respect it. I may deplore what consider abuse of it. I think think they're a bunch of chiselers for what the demand in exchange for use of their intellectual property. I may even choose not to pay their price even if it means not 'enjoying' some of their product.
Why would I buy their Cthulu? I have the real thing.
Why would I buy two games in order to play one? every generic system prior to this has at least had the decency to seperate out it's core rules into a generic source. (GURPS is very clumsy about it but such is life).
I apologise if any of the above borders on flames. I apologise if I have stepped on the toes of anyone who worships at the feet of the new Microsoft of gaming. I'm probably overly emotional at this point. I was really excited about T20 and beginning to entertain the possibility of buying some d20 products not related to traveler as a result. Not any more.
anyhow. I promise to read any further posts on this matter. but I think I've said all I need to say.
That's -not- say I won't say more if I feel the need then. Heck, when I've cooled off, and if presented with some rational arguments that I buy, I may even reverse myself. (though I can be pretty stubborn).
But right now I think I've said enough.
Garf
Just how many different editions of Traveller will there be in 18 years, when the game hits 40? At this rate, we will die about the time T20 means the twentyth edition of Traveller. Is Traveller going to match D&D for number of different editions?
Just venting some frustrations over gaming publishers.
------------------------------
In the end, Murphy will rule
Just venting some frustrations over gaming publishers.
------------------------------
In the end, Murphy will rule
MichaelL65
SOC-12
Garf, I'm not sure how you missed the fact you would have to buy the D&D 3E handbook, it's been fairly common knowledge for quite some time.
You can look at the fact you get the D&D game with the basic D20 rules one of two ways:
1. You have to pay for a game you don't want (the view you appear to have chosen).
2. You get a free sample game (which you can ignore) with the core rules.
Since the PHB runs under $20 US and the T20 core rules will be arround $45, WotC isn't the one getting the biggest chunk of your money. Granted, the amount of information from the PHB that you will use will small, making it cost more per piece of usable info. But it has been pointed out many times that only one person in the gaming group needs a copy of the PHB.
You've also stated that your gaming groups are not inclined to use D20, which is probably the most convincing reason you have given for passing on T20. If you don't have players for the game, you don't have a game. That doesn't make it a bad setting or a bad game mechanics, especially for those who do and can find players.
So T20/D20 isn't your cup of tea. I never cared for the D6 mechanics of CT myself (you don't get the same result with 2D6 as you get with 1D12), I had some house rules that used the multi-sided dice for many situations when I ran a campaign back in the mid-80's. I used some of the D&D mechanics that I had come across. I've never been completely happy with the Traveller game, the mechanics were somewhat clumsy and hard for me to follow. The setting is good, but there are many things (such as laser weapons and psionics) that strike me as rather unscientific (especially when it's supposed to be a "hard science" game). But the game has been flexable enough for me and many others to customize to our better liking. It is still the best Science Fiction setting for RPGs out there. I want to see T5 see the light of day also, but it will have a better chance with T20 as a vangaurd.
You can look at the fact you get the D&D game with the basic D20 rules one of two ways:
1. You have to pay for a game you don't want (the view you appear to have chosen).
2. You get a free sample game (which you can ignore) with the core rules.
Since the PHB runs under $20 US and the T20 core rules will be arround $45, WotC isn't the one getting the biggest chunk of your money. Granted, the amount of information from the PHB that you will use will small, making it cost more per piece of usable info. But it has been pointed out many times that only one person in the gaming group needs a copy of the PHB.
You've also stated that your gaming groups are not inclined to use D20, which is probably the most convincing reason you have given for passing on T20. If you don't have players for the game, you don't have a game. That doesn't make it a bad setting or a bad game mechanics, especially for those who do and can find players.
So T20/D20 isn't your cup of tea. I never cared for the D6 mechanics of CT myself (you don't get the same result with 2D6 as you get with 1D12), I had some house rules that used the multi-sided dice for many situations when I ran a campaign back in the mid-80's. I used some of the D&D mechanics that I had come across. I've never been completely happy with the Traveller game, the mechanics were somewhat clumsy and hard for me to follow. The setting is good, but there are many things (such as laser weapons and psionics) that strike me as rather unscientific (especially when it's supposed to be a "hard science" game). But the game has been flexable enough for me and many others to customize to our better liking. It is still the best Science Fiction setting for RPGs out there. I want to see T5 see the light of day also, but it will have a better chance with T20 as a vangaurd.
Secrect Cow Level
SOC-12
If you don't already own the D&D3e PLAYER'S HANDBOOK then the cost will be even higher. WOTC raised the price on all the D&D core rulebooks to $30.00 apiece.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Umm.. I'm not saying T20 is bad thing.
I'm just not willing to spend the money on it. plain and simple.
Not anymore.
As for how I missed such things. I don't know. let me see:
1) I have no WotC or TSR products in my possession younger than nearly twenty years of age.
2) I have trouble keeping up with real world news such as Which is the latest corporation to be revealed as the amoral servant of uncontaminated greed it truly is. Or which bunch of neigbours who hate each other are blowing each other up and threatening to do the same to us if we interfere while their politicians ask ours for assistance. Or which Ally is bombing our troops or playing trade protection games with our lumber industry. Somehow minor evils like some gaming company's nickel and dime policy fall through the cracks there.
3)It has never occured to me to ask or learn of WotC's policies since T20 is the first d20 i've been seriously interested in purchasing.
It's fortunate I found out when did. I'm at the ground floor. I haven't commited a single penny to WotC's products and can walk away easily. (unlike GW to whom I've already given quite a bit of money and now need to get some gaming time in to justify the purchase of my army.)
I do think that WotC's policy particularly sucks for people who, like me, have not and do not plan to purchase any Core d20 games but may like a game That those worthies do not publish. I find it particualarly insulting that they hold just enough back to attempt to extort a purchase from them over what appears to be single chart/page.
I'm glad for all the D&D players who will now get a chance to enjoy the wonder of traveller. I'm happy for The gaming industry/playerbase that may be getting a needed rejuvenation. But $100 Cdn will darn near buy a new army of Games Workshop Models on ebay. Allowing me to feed my OTHER gaming hobby. $100 cdn can buy be a heck of a lot of CT reprints and/or Traveller Computer resources. I got really excited about T20, thinking (more fool me) that that $60 Cdn book would be as cool as the $60 Starwars book appeared to be ( I confess. THAT one tempted me.) Recent gaming experience had reconciled me to the system (despite my grievances with its ancestor(s))and I was ... complacent... about my mild concerns about WotC becoming the Microsoft of the gaming world.
I confess to be initially somewhat emotional on the issue. I was blindsided and several of my buttons were pushed:
(a) I REALLY don't like coercion of any sort it get's my back RIGHT up.
(b) Traveller is frankly an addiction. I can't say that I'm completely normal on the subject. It was a cool and mind expanding thing that never got to be as fun as I imagined/hoped it would be when I was 14... Reviving the old traveler in me seems to have revived some of my teenage irrationality.
(c) I am suspicous of monopolies and don't believe they care one wit about fair pricing. Games Workshop Chisels the warhammer crowd from their unassaileble position as effectively the only Minitures strategy game with a sustainable and sufficiently broad player base to be worth playing. I believe this... one for two deal is the same greedy bullying.
Finally it came at a time, when I was riding rather High on the combined landslide of discovering T20 discovering it was good (at least judging from reading all 50+ pages the very night I downloaded T20 Lite PDF teaser.) Finding this forum Where people don't look at me funny when I talk about traveller. (even to my gaming friends, I'm the lone 'traveller freak' They never heard of the game until they met me.) All within about 2 days. That dispointment was magnified by the hieght from which it brought me.
Looking at the above, I find most of my 'reasons' to be emotional. Distrust, sour grapes etc. however they are my emotions.
Simply put: WotC managed by a combination of their 'open gaming policy' and some circumstances personal to myself and beyond their control to royally tick me off. And while ticked off I'm quite willing to cut off my nose to spite my face. (I'm stubborn that way.)
Garf.
I'm just not willing to spend the money on it. plain and simple.
Not anymore.
As for how I missed such things. I don't know. let me see:
1) I have no WotC or TSR products in my possession younger than nearly twenty years of age.
2) I have trouble keeping up with real world news such as Which is the latest corporation to be revealed as the amoral servant of uncontaminated greed it truly is. Or which bunch of neigbours who hate each other are blowing each other up and threatening to do the same to us if we interfere while their politicians ask ours for assistance. Or which Ally is bombing our troops or playing trade protection games with our lumber industry. Somehow minor evils like some gaming company's nickel and dime policy fall through the cracks there.
3)It has never occured to me to ask or learn of WotC's policies since T20 is the first d20 i've been seriously interested in purchasing.
It's fortunate I found out when did. I'm at the ground floor. I haven't commited a single penny to WotC's products and can walk away easily. (unlike GW to whom I've already given quite a bit of money and now need to get some gaming time in to justify the purchase of my army.)
I do think that WotC's policy particularly sucks for people who, like me, have not and do not plan to purchase any Core d20 games but may like a game That those worthies do not publish. I find it particualarly insulting that they hold just enough back to attempt to extort a purchase from them over what appears to be single chart/page.
I'm glad for all the D&D players who will now get a chance to enjoy the wonder of traveller. I'm happy for The gaming industry/playerbase that may be getting a needed rejuvenation. But $100 Cdn will darn near buy a new army of Games Workshop Models on ebay. Allowing me to feed my OTHER gaming hobby. $100 cdn can buy be a heck of a lot of CT reprints and/or Traveller Computer resources. I got really excited about T20, thinking (more fool me) that that $60 Cdn book would be as cool as the $60 Starwars book appeared to be ( I confess. THAT one tempted me.) Recent gaming experience had reconciled me to the system (despite my grievances with its ancestor(s))and I was ... complacent... about my mild concerns about WotC becoming the Microsoft of the gaming world.
I confess to be initially somewhat emotional on the issue. I was blindsided and several of my buttons were pushed:
(a) I REALLY don't like coercion of any sort it get's my back RIGHT up.
(b) Traveller is frankly an addiction. I can't say that I'm completely normal on the subject. It was a cool and mind expanding thing that never got to be as fun as I imagined/hoped it would be when I was 14... Reviving the old traveler in me seems to have revived some of my teenage irrationality.
(c) I am suspicous of monopolies and don't believe they care one wit about fair pricing. Games Workshop Chisels the warhammer crowd from their unassaileble position as effectively the only Minitures strategy game with a sustainable and sufficiently broad player base to be worth playing. I believe this... one for two deal is the same greedy bullying.
Finally it came at a time, when I was riding rather High on the combined landslide of discovering T20 discovering it was good (at least judging from reading all 50+ pages the very night I downloaded T20 Lite PDF teaser.) Finding this forum Where people don't look at me funny when I talk about traveller. (even to my gaming friends, I'm the lone 'traveller freak' They never heard of the game until they met me.) All within about 2 days. That dispointment was magnified by the hieght from which it brought me.
Looking at the above, I find most of my 'reasons' to be emotional. Distrust, sour grapes etc. however they are my emotions.
Simply put: WotC managed by a combination of their 'open gaming policy' and some circumstances personal to myself and beyond their control to royally tick me off. And while ticked off I'm quite willing to cut off my nose to spite my face. (I'm stubborn that way.)
Garf.
Gallowglass
SOC-12
I have deliberately avoided reading much of where this thread has been recently, because it seems to be getting into the pointlessly heated "WotC are evil" etc opinion/counter opinion which I personally find a little futile.
However, Garf I'm curious as to why you dislike what WotC have done compared to say SJG: in order to use pretty much any GURPS book you need the core rule book and Compendium 1 I believe; although once they have sorted out Powered by GURPS there will be more standalone books.
Given that WotC have set up a license system that allows anyone to use the d20 system for free, how are they the bad guys? Try using GURPS without a license! Try getting a license to do it yourself, even! (No offence to SJG intended, by the way...)
The decision by Quicklink to make T20 a d20 game i.e. use the d20 System Trademark License which requires the exclusion of character creation and experience rules and requires referencing the D&D Players Handbook is actually the source of your problem I believe. That decision is Hunter /MJD's to defend (and I'm not personally convinced it was the only way to go) but I imagine their reasoning was simply that the economic viability of the project (and thus of a whole line of new Traveller material useable with both CT and T20) will be enhanced by using the d20 logo and therefore selling the core rules to a new market (d20 Traveller newbies) as well as the rest of the line to both old hands and T20 players. As I say, I'm a d20 sceptic (play some d20, play other stuff) and I remain to be convinced by T20 - but at least Quicklink have got a strategy that apears (to an outsider) to be built around getting Traveller a long term future as a supported game.
So in conclusion, I suggest Garf and the other anti-d20 types don't stress, don't worry about buying T20 (it's not really aimed at you) but for the sake of the game world we all love, the Official Traveller Universe (and all our personal variations there of) lets hope that the T20 line has lots of stuff we can all buy, yeah?
And if anyone cares to search, yep, that probably is a considerably more mellow approach than when I first heard about T20 I bothered to read the OGL and d20 STL and looked at MJD / Hunters arguments and whilst it may not become my game of choisce, I think they are doing a Good Thing...
However, Garf I'm curious as to why you dislike what WotC have done compared to say SJG: in order to use pretty much any GURPS book you need the core rule book and Compendium 1 I believe; although once they have sorted out Powered by GURPS there will be more standalone books.
Given that WotC have set up a license system that allows anyone to use the d20 system for free, how are they the bad guys? Try using GURPS without a license! Try getting a license to do it yourself, even! (No offence to SJG intended, by the way...)
The decision by Quicklink to make T20 a d20 game i.e. use the d20 System Trademark License which requires the exclusion of character creation and experience rules and requires referencing the D&D Players Handbook is actually the source of your problem I believe. That decision is Hunter /MJD's to defend (and I'm not personally convinced it was the only way to go) but I imagine their reasoning was simply that the economic viability of the project (and thus of a whole line of new Traveller material useable with both CT and T20) will be enhanced by using the d20 logo and therefore selling the core rules to a new market (d20 Traveller newbies) as well as the rest of the line to both old hands and T20 players. As I say, I'm a d20 sceptic (play some d20, play other stuff) and I remain to be convinced by T20 - but at least Quicklink have got a strategy that apears (to an outsider) to be built around getting Traveller a long term future as a supported game.
So in conclusion, I suggest Garf and the other anti-d20 types don't stress, don't worry about buying T20 (it's not really aimed at you) but for the sake of the game world we all love, the Official Traveller Universe (and all our personal variations there of) lets hope that the T20 line has lots of stuff we can all buy, yeah?
And if anyone cares to search, yep, that probably is a considerably more mellow approach than when I first heard about T20
I bothered to read the OGL and d20 STL and looked at MJD / Hunters arguments and whilst it may not become my game of choisce, I think they are doing a Good Thing...Garf -- Download T20 lite (free) from http://www.travellerrpg.com/ and email me for the secret handshake. Then you can make up your mind about T20.
Brook (kitsune@sff.net)
Brook (kitsune@sff.net)
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
Thanks Tanuki, I've got T20 Lite... I'll see about your offer. As long is it doesn't get you into Trouble.
Hmmmm but... This is The T5 board isn't it? (sheepish grin)...The answer my be lost in all the flames ( Flamers-R-ME!) but When IS T5 due out and What IS known about it. Heck What is RUMOURED about it. Rumours are cool. used to be I only learned about half my traveller stuff after the document in question had gone out of print.
Garf.
Hmmmm but... This is The T5 board isn't it? (sheepish grin)...The answer my be lost in all the flames ( Flamers-R-ME!) but When IS T5 due out and What IS known about it. Heck What is RUMOURED about it. Rumours are cool. used to be I only learned about half my traveller stuff after the document in question had gone out of print.
Garf.
Gallowglass
SOC-12
Originally posted by Vargas:
I realize that I'm risking life and limb but here goes. . .
Isn't this a forum for T5?
(Ducks for cover!)
And where is the market/writing expertise for T5 when we have G:T now operating in two era's of the OTU, QLI about to start expanding into a third (and promising to be the official source for pushing the OTU timeline forward as well), plus FFE supplying the CT reprints and dropping hints about possible MT reprints? In this enviroment, whilst there are many of us who would love to see the definitve generic Hard SF RPG (that wasn't d20 based, that was derived from the CT-MT-4 lineage) it would sell enough to succeed and I'd rather see the OTU developed and supported (which currently means GT and t20) than watch _another_ Traveller incarnation go belly up.
If T5 has a future, then I think it will be in either electronic form or by subscription support, not as a conventionally published game where it would have to compete with GT, T20 and the CT reprints.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
ICK possibly true. Frighteningly possibly true.
but if true then T20 is going to be out for a long time....
Lots of time to reverse myself if waiting for T5 get's too painful. Meanwhile... if I buy too soon I might discourage it's development? I donno. On the other hand .. I confess I've drooled over some of GT's supplements. now that I KNOW I don't have to own GURPS to uee them... who knows SJC might get some more of my business. (I know I bought 'Murphy's Rules' from them long ago).
Garf.
