So... Merchant Prince?

[BardicHeart]

I'll basically go along with Saundby's assessment of Merchant Prince. I bought mine on DriveThru during their recent sale and even with the discounts, for a PDF and for what I got I STILL think its overpriced (I think most of the PDFs are overpriced to be blunt about it).

The trade rules are... well... broken if you ask me. Its way too easy to get filthy rich. I've got nothing against being filthy rich or players running characters who are... I'd just like them to have to actually work for it. To that end I'll share the following house rules I've been tinkering with. Please feel free to try them out, test them and give feedback, this is just a first draft.

Modifiers for Freight Traffic Value
Competition: GM should determine the presence of a commercial shipping entity / corp and apply the largest shipping corp's Rank (0-6) as a -Mod to the FTV

Incorporated: If the PC Trader has formed their own trade corp, apply its Rank as a +Mod to the FTV

Local Broker: If using a local Broker, apply their Career Rank (1-6) as a positive Mod (representing their accumulated local contacts)

Small ship: If the trade ship is under 1000 dTons, apply a -2 to the FTV

Not Established: If the trader has not traded cargo here in the last 12 months apply a -2 Mod to the FTV

Infrequent Trader: If the trader has not traded cargo at this world in the last 4 months, apply a -1 Mod to the FTV

Subsidized: If the trader has a government contract (subsidized route) to run a specific route and schedule, apply a +6 Mod to the FTV


Available Freight Lots (Per Source) Table
Swap the Incidental and Major columns so that the column headings read...
FTV_____Major_____Minor_____Incidental

This yields more small cargos and fewer big ones.

Apply the same modifiers for FTV to Passenger Traffic Values

 

[nats]

An assumption in grievous error, which 5 minutes of research would have proven wrong.

Repurposing terms is a bad idea without LOTS of context.

We have all accepted the terms Marine referring to space born ships troops without any water being necessary, and Scouts referring to space explorers rather than little boys in shorts. Its just a matter of using ones imagination and being a bit flexible. You are well overreacting!! If the author knew of the term's meaning and used it in another way to reflect the scifi nature of the game so what? Big deal. Move on.

 

[jawillroy]

We have all accepted the terms Marine referring to space born ships troops without any water being necessary, and Scouts referring to space explorers rather than little boys in shorts. Its just a matter of using ones imagination and being a bit flexible.

I'm all for using imagination, or I wouldn't be here: but WORDS MEAN THINGS. Saying that they mean something else is delusional at best and dishonest at worst.

Marines, as viewed in Traveller, are analogues to wet-navy marines; The notion of scouting existed a sight before we applied the term to boy scouts. Those words, applied to Traveller, mean close to the same thing.

The term "Merchant Marine" as used in Merchant Prince does NOT mean close to the same thing that it does IRL, and its misuse is shoddy writing - and worse - sloppy editing. It's an embarrassment.

 

[Shonner]

The term "Merchant Marine" as used in Merchant Prince does NOT mean close to the same thing that it does IRL, and its misuse is shoddy writing - and worse - sloppy editing. It's an embarrassment.

Don't assume that people even speak english in the Far Future.

 

[aramis]

Don't assume that people even speak english in the Far Future.

The default assumption should be that the authors and players of a game published in English should be using the standard English meaning of the terms used.

 

[Shonner]

The default assumption should be that the authors and players of a game published in English should be using the standard English meaning of the terms used.

So what does jump drive mean then? Someone from another game that has jump drive will go WTF? Or should we be OCD about this also?

 

[rancke]

So what does jump drive mean then? Someone from another game that has jump drive will go WTF? Or should we be OCD about this also?

Sound analogy, because there's absolutely no difference between the term 'merchant marine' and the term 'jump drive'.

Well, that's not entirely true. There is a difference, but it's such a tiny one that only an obsessive-compulsive would notice. One has a dictionary definition and the other one doesn't.

merchant marine noun

Definition of MERCHANT MARINE

1: the privately or publicly owned commercial ships of a nation

2: the personnel of a merchant marine; specifically : a member of a merchant marine


jump drive
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary.
​

But, of course, it's obsessive-compulsive to attach any sort of significance to something so trivial as one being an actual, well-known term and the other one not being an actual well-known term.


Hans

 

[Shonner]

MERCHANT MARINE and JUMP DRIVE are not well known terms in any language. Let me know when they are house-hold words.

Since MWM hasn't chimed in here about it, it's a non-issue anyway. Unless you are an outright languagist with an axe to grind.

 

[rancke]

MERCHANT MARINE and JUMP DRIVE are not well known terms in any language. Let me know when they are house-hold words.

And your evidence for this claim is what?

And even if you were right, anyone who didn't understand the term 'merchant marine' could just look it up. That's what dictionaries are for.


Hans

 

[nats]

And your evidence for this claim is what?

And even if you were right, anyone who didn't understand the term 'merchant marine' could just look it up. That's what dictionaries are for.


Hans

Mongoose have said that the author knew what it meant and ignored it, he changed the meaning for his book. Personally based on the slip ups in Mercenary, I very much doubt this story. I think it was just another slip up by the author. If Mongoose had said it was just a slip up at the start this thread would have finished in the first page. But whats more disturbing though is that they are making such mistakes, and then try to defend them afterwards or produce a completely new book to replace the lousy one thereby trying to profit from their mistakes. All of these are reasons I sold my MGT stuff. I dont like being taken for a mug by anyone.

 

[atpollard]

Given THIS dictionary definition:

Definition of MERCHANT MARINE

1: the privately or publicly owned commercial ships of a nation

2: the personnel of a merchant marine; specifically : a member of a merchant marine

and THIS Merchant Prince career description:

MERCHANT MARINE
You worked on one of the enormous freight and cargo haulers
that help keep intergalactic governments and mega-corporations
running smoothly.

Assignments:
Bridge Hand: You served in the decision-making team of officers on the bulk freighter.
Fleet Hand: You were one of many deckhands on a bulk freighter.
Fleet Security: Trained to fight like a shipboard soldier, you protected a bulk freighter from possible boarding actions.

I am having trouble seeing the problem. The definition of Merchant Marine sounds exactly like the career described - both of which sound like the average joe who makes his living on a commercial ship. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get bleary-eyed jobs staring at the screens on the bridge. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get sore backs and bruised knuckle jobs everywhere else on the ship. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get handed a gun while the ship is passing through the waters near Somalia.

The illustration under the Merchant Marine career seems too para-military for the career description, but the harsh criticism does not seem directed at the artwork, but the definition of the career.

Enlighten this poor land lubber. The Merchant Prince definition of 'Merchant Marine' seems to match the Merriam-Webster definition of 'Merchant Marine', so where exactly is the problem?

 

[rancke]

I am having trouble seeing the problem. The definition of Merchant Marine sounds exactly like the career described - both of which sound like the average joe who makes his living on a commercial ship. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get bleary-eyed jobs staring at the screens on the bridge. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get sore backs and bruised knuckle jobs everywhere else on the ship. Some average Joe Merchant Marines get handed a gun while the ship is passing through the waters near Somalia.

I have to agree. I had gotten the impression that 'Merchant marine' was being described as a marine working for a Merchant Service. That is, the 'marine' part had been interpreted as an armed individual, not a bunch of ships.

As long as they don't call the security guards working in the Merchant marine marines, I'm good.

IIRC they also call the ground forces career ARMY, not SOLDIER, right?


Hans

 

[HG_B]

MERCHANT MARINE and JUMP DRIVE are not well known terms in any language. Let me know when they are house-hold words.

"Merchant Marine" is a very well known & common term in the U.S. Has been for >70 years at least. Other countries maybe not.

 

[RainOfSteel]

The Merchant Marine goes beyond the U.S.A.

 

[Tobias]

and a bloated section on slave trade that mostly seems to be written to justify the slaver character classes. [...]The new types of trade are welcome additions, aside from excess of slavery stuff.

Sorry for necroing this, but is this a joke? A rule section on slave trading? A slaver character class? Why not also one on drug smuggling?

You know, I recently acquired MgTAM4 to see how my favorite Alien Race, the Zhodani, fared in the Mongoose version. I was slightly miffed at the treatment they got, but gathering more information about the various other Mongoose products, I am slowly coming to the realization that I got off easy.

 

[saundby]

Not a joke.

Sorry.

The MGT stuff is pretty variable. Some of it is spot-on.

Other bits make you think that even a Barbarella or Laser Blast supplement would be better.

Unlike AM4 Zhodani, which has a particularly capable author who knows Traveller.

 

[Thanos]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't slavery the one thing the 3I has outlawed, more or less?

 

[Tobias]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't slavery the one thing the 3I has outlawed, more or less?

I'm not sure if there is any official information on it, but IMTU this is indeed one of the Imperium's "red lines" as far as local worlds conducting their own affairs is concerned. Even if not, slave *trade* on an interstellar level would definitely be out of the question.

 

[Easterner9504]

Mongoose products are not TRAVELLER in the strictest sense unless marked THIRD IMPERIUM. TRAV players frequently blast them over odd inclusions but they're aimed at Bab 5, Hammers Slammers, Judge Dredd, Beyond the Veil, Chtonian Stars etc. and Mongoose sees TRAV as their GURPS which ironically is how GDW designed it before creating 3I background. Slave traders can exist in TRAV universe but will be outside Imperium in general.

So I ignore items I deem not TRAVELLER and import things from old days and GURPS TRAV or Ulta-Tech if missing from MgT.

 

[Tobias]

Mongoose products are not TRAVELLER in the strictest sense unless marked THIRD IMPERIUM. TRAV players frequently blast them over odd inclusions but they're aimed at Bab 5, Hammers Slammers, Judge Dredd, Beyond the Veil, Chtonian Stars etc. and Mongoose sees TRAV as their GURPS which ironically is how GDW designed it before creating 3I background. Slave traders can exist in TRAV universe but will be outside Imperium in general.

So I ignore items I deem not TRAVELLER and import things from old days and GURPS TRAV or Ulta-Tech if missing from MgT.

Okay, that does explain the inconsistency with the TU. However, I still think it's rather bad taste to present slave trading as a viable option for player characters even if it is present in the background.