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So you think Virus is silly?

There already are exact definitions.
Well, this is where we quibble. Regardless of what the definitions were, there are the definitions that you are using, and the definitions that Mike was using. If you had asked him what a Computer Virus was, he'd have an answer. He "knows" what a virus is. The detail is that his answer doesn't necessarily agree with your answer.

Regardless of who is "right" or "wrong", clarifying the terms of the discussion is a courtesy to prevent those involved from talking past each other or even falling in black holes like these.

Telling someone in the conversation to go ask someone else isn't very friendly. The link the Wikipedia was helpful, but didn't clarify all of the terms. A very quick synopsis would have probably been more than enough to stabilize the conversation, and the courteous thing to do.
 
Comm radios aren't and will not be designed to read, load, store, compile and then side load into a computer that they wouldn't have write privileges to much less execute privileges with, much less have a direct connection to.
Neither are floppy disks, nor USB drives. They're just avenues of data.

Just like those compromised PDFs, Message Texts, and image files that could compromise iOS devices. That all come, over the air, via radio.

The radio is a singular component in a complex system.
 
That is why those with any IT knowledge have said from Day 1 that "Virus" was magic.
Magic.
Psionic.
Cybernetic.
Um ... IC-ic ... :unsure:

We can just identify it as what it was ... a Plot Hole™.

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Nope! Not at all. Radio receivers are NOT that. Not equipped to handle, store and execute ANY code of ANY type. That is why those with any IT knowledge have said from Day 1 that "Virus" was magic.
I don’t think that’s true in a sci-fi environment. Intelligent energy life forms might indeed be able to adapt or overwrite.
 
Comm radios aren't and will not be designed to read, load, store, compile and then side load into a computer that they wouldn't have write privileges to much less execute privileges with, much less have a direct connection to.
And yet they are and they do, hence the numerous examples of cyberwarfare against comms systems, radios, mobile phones, TVs, digital radios - all it take is a google search.
 
And yet they are and they do, hence the numerous examples of cyberwarfare against comms systems, radios, mobile phones, TVs, digital radios - all it take is a google search.
Nope. ZERO examples of CODE being introduced and run on a radio via broadcast. ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Straw man argument
 
Google must be wrong then because there is page after page of examples.
I don't think you know what a straw man argument is, this certainly isn't one since there is page after page of evidence of digital radio receivers being used to introduce malware.

Want me to post a few dozen of the several thousand examples or can you do the search yourself?
 
Google must be wrong then because there is page after page of examples.
I don't think you know what a straw man argument is, this certainly isn't one since there is page after page of evidence of digital radio receivers being used to introduce malware.

Want me to post a few dozen of the several thousand examples or can you do the search yourself?
Google is wrong then. There are ZERO examples of a radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. ZERO! And yes, you are creating a straw man argument with your "cyberwarfare against comms systems, radios, mobile phones, TVs, digital radios". BECAUSE those aren't examples of a comm radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. Which is the ONLY arguer I made. Therfore you ARE engaging in a Straw man argument PERIOD. So show your search results with THAT.
 
Google is wrong then. There are ZERO examples of a radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. ZERO! And yes, you are creating a straw man argument with your "cyberwarfare against comms systems, radios, mobile phones, TVs, digital radios". BECAUSE those aren't examples of a comm radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. Which is the ONLY arguer I made. Therfore you ARE engaging in a Straw man argument PERIOD. So show your search results with THAT.
That doesn't mean it can't be done. A common method of guidance used with munitions is to piggyback a command signal on a radar used to track the ordinance. The limitation on inserting a virus on a radio is the device would have to be a receiver not a transmitter. That is, if the radio in question were only a transmitter, then no, you couldn't insert a virus to attack the transmitter. If the device were a receiver or both, then it should be possible to insert a virus if the radio is sufficiently advanced enough to be using software and have some sort of digital storage on it.
You certainly couldn't insert a virus into say, a special purpose analog computer where there is no software, or a similar analog radio. These don't have software but rather are either programmed by their component configuration or manually programmed by things like patch cords.

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If on the other hand, something is networked, has both software and memory installed in it, it is very, very likely you can insert a virus into it if that virus is designed properly.

Look at how clever auto thieves have figured out you can hack a car with lots of computerization through things like the headlight sensors.


I think it was Scotty in one of the Star Trek movies that said something like, "The more complex they make them, the easier it is to break them..." as he tossed some circuit boards or such on a console as the ship chasing them ground to halt.

Complexity and connectivity are all you need here.
 
That doesn't mean it can't be done. A common method of guidance used with munitions
STAY ON TARGET. (from Star wars). This is a communication radio for a vessel. No one will build in a structure in such a device where it can receive broadcasts, figure out the comm protocol for randomly sent code in binary (yes that has to be done BEFORE the next step can happen), store the code, compile the code, load the code INTO A DIFFERENT HIGHLY PROTECTED COMPUTER (the ships main computer in this case) with the right privileges, run the code. ALL without user permission and knowledge. NO ONE WOULD BUILD THAT for vessels to communicate with and be connected to the other computer.

Therefore, as written, "Virus" was magic.
 
Google is wrong then. There are ZERO examples of a radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. ZERO! And yes, you are creating a straw man argument with your "cyberwarfare against comms systems, radios, mobile phones, TVs, digital radios". BECAUSE those aren't examples of a comm radio receiving a transmission with code in it and then running the code. Which is the ONLY arguer I made. Therfore you ARE engaging in a Straw man argument PERIOD. So show your search results with THAT.
I notice you have just changed your claim. I am claiming a digital radio signal can carry the code for malware



 
STAY ON TARGET. (from Star wars). This is a communication radio for a vessel. No one will build in a structure in such a device where it can receive broadcasts, figure out the comm protocol for randomly sent code in binary (yes that has to be done BEFORE the next step can happen), store the code, compile the code, load the code INTO A DIFFERENT HIGHLY PROTECTED COMPUTER (the ships main computer in this case) with the right privileges, run the code. ALL without user permission and knowledge. NO ONE WOULD BUILD THAT for vessels to communicate with and be connected to the other computer.

Therefore, as written, "Virus" was magic.
I was pointing out how easily a signal can be piggy backed onto an existing signal and fed into an antenna. The bottom line is if the system is networked, and it uses software and has memory, then it can be hacked and a virus inserted. Stuxnet is a perfect example of that. The controls it was supposed to affect were ones with a single purpose for industrial use. But the controllers were networked and therefore hackable remotely. The virus became known when it 'leaked' into other industrial controls and spread beyond the original target.

Regardless of how "highly protected" some computer is, if it is networked it can theoretically be hacked. In a far more advanced technological setting, I could see an AI developed that 'studies' the target, then begins to build a set of code that can be used to allow it to inject itself into that system.

AI already can be used to design whole sets of circuitry. Once it knows the inputs and expected outputs, it can do the rest. The same goes with the Virus. It's just better at it. It identifies a system and immediately seeks a means to penetrate into it. It may do this with known algorithms, or by some sort of brute force and repetition. All it needs is time to find what allows entry. Once it does that, it then looks for a way to interface with the existing internal system and insert itself into that system's memory. All of this could be done in a benign way where users don't see the system being hacked because everything works as advertised.

Once in, the Virus does whatever it does. If it is benign, it might only then seek to spread further without harming the systems it's in already. All it needs is a means to interface with the system, and that means, generally, it is networked or otherwise attached to outside inputs. This could be as simple as a ship using some sort of active radar and the virus starts trying to inject a signal into the return to get into the radar system electronics. Once it's in, it starts looking for memory it can occupy. It then studies the system's code and replicates that with code that allows it to do whatever it's going to do in the system.

In terms of a ship, once it's in the sensor system, it then tries to spread to other components of the ship's systems. It replicates itself into say, the navigation computer and software, then into some other system. It does so without affecting any of these system's operations so the crew wouldn't even know it was doing it other than maybe if the system slowed down some or something. Even then, the Virus might be clever enough to not suck up too much operating space to avoid slowing things down only using what is extra at any given time.

With the Internet of Things, all it would take is the Virus (some variant of it) is loaded into the memory of say a beer fridge. You buy one and plug it in on your ship. The Virus is now everywhere throughout the ship's electrical system and grows. It might seek out other items with some variant of it loaded to start to share data and grow in terms of capability.
 
So You Think Virus Is Silly?

1. Virus infects both the Software & Hardware of a computer.
2. Virus appears to be an unintentional uplift of an inorganic silicate lifeform, that due to it's weaponization and newfound intelligence, it weaponized any computer system it infected against it's users.
3. Virus might possibly be Psionic due to it's ability to infect a computers Hardware from it's Software. (this theory is considered way out there)
 
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So You Think Virus Is Silly?

1. Virus infects both the Software & Hardware of a computer.
2. Virus appears to be an unintentional uplift of an inorganic silicate lifeform, that due to it's weaponization and newfound intelligence, it weaponized any computer system it infected against it's users.
3. Virus might possibly be Psionic due to it's ability to infect a computers Hardware from it's Software. (this theory is considered way out there)
Exactly. Magic
 
STAY ON TARGET. (from Star wars). This is a communication radio for a vessel. No one will build in a structure in such a device where it can receive broadcasts, figure out the comm protocol for randomly sent code in binary (yes that has to be done BEFORE the next step can happen), store the code, compile the code, load the code INTO A DIFFERENT HIGHLY PROTECTED COMPUTER (the ships main computer in this case) with the right privileges, run the code. ALL without user permission and knowledge. NO ONE WOULD BUILD THAT for vessels to communicate with and be connected to the other computer. . . .

Not that I wish to get too deep into this fray (and I do not have any particular axe to grind one way or the other), but The Virus was not designed to work thru the Communication Radio on a vessel.

VirusTM was a prototype weaponized AI-malware custom-designed to attack another very specific custom-designed system: namely the starship transponder system which utilized its own specific interactive and independent communication/data-transfer network with other transponder systems that were always on and interacting with one-another. The transfer of data (and code) between transponders as a routine matter of course as part of standard operation would not be an unusual assumption. Those individual transponders themselves were likewise independently networked with their own individual ship's computer systems at a fundamental level in order to be able to transmit the appropriate sensor, identity, and other flight data upon query.

The VirusTM that was released was at a top-secret Imperial (i.e. Emperor Lucan) military research facility and was not yet ready for deployment and was released accidentally as a result of an assault on the facility by "the Enemy" (i.e. Dulinor-forces). The AI Malware (VirusTM) mutated and modified itself as it learned in order to better accomplish its perceived mission. It eventually found other ways to infect other systems by other subtle avenues.

1. Virus infects both the Software & Hardware of a computer.

While the basis of VirusTM is the Cymbeline Silicon Life-Form, though it is tempting to presume that the Cymbeline "Chip" and the computers it integrates with are using a more sophisticated chip technology similar to what we are familiar with at TL7-8, it may be that the architecture or operating principles of the TL12+ technology in the computers are actually something very different {* insert handwave here *}. We cannot be entirely certain that elements of hardware and software have not intermingled at a fundamental level and in fact don't inter-modify, despite that being impossible today with our computer architecture.

As a different example, consider DNA, it is both hardware and software: the quaternary code is encoded on the DNA chemically in 3-unit codons (=bytes) which are grouped to form amino acids from which proteins are built. But the complete code is embedded in every piece of hardware for the entire system, and the hardware itself arises and is built up from the from the software encoded on its own "hardware" substructure.

2. Virus appears to be an unintentional uplift of an inorganic silicate lifeform, that due to it's weaponization and newfound intelligence, it weaponized any computer system it infected against it's users.

It was not unintentional. Cymbeline Life aside, Research Station Omicron (in Lucan's Imperium) was designing its uplift with a very specific goal. They had not reached the finished product at the time of release. What was unintentional was both its premature and uncontrolled release.

3. Virus might possibly be Psionic due to it's ability to infect a computers Hardware from it's Software. (this theory is considered way out there)

Possibly. That remains to be determined, as there is no data in evidence.
 
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