CT Only: Soldiers

[Supplement Four]

Imperial Army, equal in stature to the IISS and the IN - to paraphrase the quote from LBB6.
The Imperial Army has an intelligence branch, the Imperial Army has letterheads, there are Imperial Army veterans as sample characters.

There is an Imperial Army.

That's the most solid reference in CT that I've seen.

Still, my impression is that the Empire has an origination called the Imperial Army that, in times of need, uses a combination of local world forces as the Army.

The "Imperial Army" is (we're just talking my opinion here, based on the CT evidence) most likely a organizational/logistical/administrative unit that takes over command of sections appropriate world armies to fight wars.

Yes, I think that there is a small force of Imperial Army troops, but their main job is probably to be advisors to worlds for training. If their Emperor ever needs to call on a world to help defend the Empire, then they need to be trained this way.

The average Imperial Citizen will hardly ever come into contact someone in the Imperial Army, and when it does happen, it's most likely near a governmental facility--maybe at a Naval Base where local troops are being trained to Imperial standards.





In short, what I'm trying to say is that there are aspects of the organization called the Imperial Army, but when the troops hit the beach, it's a unit from X world, an another unit from X world, and this unit from Y world, and this air unit from Z world--where maybe the officers are actual Imperial Army officers.



NOTE: I may change my opinion on this once I read some of the Imperial Army references that people have cited. I wish that there were sources and page numbers, though.

 

[kilemall]

The only clue I could figure on from LBB1 is the default weapon skills Rifle and SMG instead of Laser.

Could be Army traditional arms like Cutlass for the Marines, could be basic preparation to work in lower tech regimes, could be evidence for low tech planetary force.

LBB4 refers to the Imperium explicitly, but refers to Navy, Marines and Army as service branches of major worlds, and that the source of merc personnel and experience is Marines and Army/Ground Force Command.

There is a general note of the Imperium's forces being only numerous enough for defense of the realm or intervening in out of control planets quickly and decisively, as part of the setup/explanation for the functionality of mercenary units in general.

Marines are treated the same as Army, no distinction in terms of one being Imperial and the other being local- if anything, if one had no further material then LBB4 one might conclude the bulk of Marines should be considered planetary as well.

So, if we take LBB1-4 in total, one gets the impression there can be Imperial Army/Marines, and also Planetary Army/Marines. This may not be so far-fetched, especially for something like airless worlds or asteroid belts, specialized for space control, and Planetary Navies still need security/boarding troops.

So that's my take, if using LBB1 Army OR Marine chargen just decide whether the character is Imperial or local, based on campaign need, player preference and/or skill mix.

A fun thought just came to mind- you could determine by SOC, SOC 8+ are local, SOC 7- are Imperial, the idea being that the connected would want to serve locally rather then being shipped all over the sector.

 

[Supplement Four]

Feudal Organization

FEUDAL EMPIRE


The easiest way to explain my view of the Imperial Army, based on what I see in the CT materials, is that the Army is akin to that of western feudal kingdoms of the Dark Ages on Earth.

If the King of England goes to war with the King of France, the English king has his own forces, but he needs more for the war. So, he draws on the strength of his bannermen and nobles. The archers from X. The pikemen from Y. The serfs conscripted from Z. And so on.



It looks to me that the 3I copies that feudal structure. The only true Imperial Army troops are those on Capital and the surrounding worlds in that subsector.

When the Empire goes to war, as it did during the Fifth Frontier War, the local worlds involved in the conflict are combined to form the "Imperial Army" to fight the battles.




We don't see far flung Imperial Army bases, the way we do Imperial Naval bases. This leads me to believe that the Navy and the Marines are the far larger organizations--and that the two of them are used for 99% of any armed force operations that the Empire might engage.

When the Empire goes on a large scale war footing, which does not happen that often, the Imperial Army is made up of the armies from local worlds (the Emperor's vassals), and possibly combined with actual Imperial Army forces from Capital or there abouts (if travel time allows).

 

[Condottiere]

Seems pointless to allow an Army Headquarters controlling anything larger than a Domain.

If they have to start drawing resources from other regions, something seriously went wrong, and you might get a visit from the Emperor himself.

 

[kilemall]

As to whether these are feudal forces under nobles in the full sense of the term, that is I imagine very much an individual interpretation of what the relationship of nobles are to planetary governments/politics.

I'm thinking it's closer to the US arrangement pre-Civil War, a small regular army and cadre officers trained up, and forces raised from the state militias and authorized units- more planetary as a subunit of the Imperium rather then feudal.

 

[mike wightman]

Some random babbling...

According to interview GDW had the Roman Empire in mind when initially outlining the Imperial setting.
So go easy on the medieval feudal trappings.

Dukes are military commanders and governors of their territory, although there are higher ranking Military commanders.

The Imperium directly raises and maintains the Imperial Army, Imperial Navy and the IISS - note that the Imperial Star Marines are not considered of equal standing to the IA, IN and IISS since they are not mentioned - so think Royal Marines rather that USMC.

Imperial Army assets are not in the Spinward Marches, their bases are 'off board'. Which makes sense - any Imperial Waystation with an Imperial Army depot would make an excellent target for a drop the rock game.

Regular Imperial Army units are deployed to the SM as the Efate situation spirals out of control - training the number of units available in the FFW game would take far too long, those units must exist prior to hostilities.

The Spinward Marches are a mercenaries' playground with IN/IM as the oversight.

Cadre training missions are a thing for IA in order to make sure trusted colonial forces and mercenaries are up to Imperial Army standards so they can be called up to Imperial service if things kick off.

LBB:4 was written before the Imperium had even entered the proto-Traveller setting stage, Striker gives a more up to date look at the regular forces of the OTU.

 

[welsh]

If the King of England goes to war with the King of France, the English king has his own forces, but he needs more for the war. So, he draws on the strength of his bannermen and nobles. The archers from X. The pikemen from Y. The serfs conscripted from Z. And so on.

I agree, but suggest that most worlds do not actually have armies, because they have no need of armies. Units are raised by major worlds, which are the seats of noble power.

The Imperium has no need of a TL6 regiment from some backwater. If the Duke of Whatsit maintains a brigade on that backwater, you can bet they're outfitted to a higher TL.

Opening the strategy can of worms: what need do you have of an army if you do not intend to expand your territories? I suggest the likely strategy of both the Imperium and the Zhos would be not to take worlds, but to nuke them into the stone age. You don't need troops for that.

 

[kilemall]

The Imperium has no need of a TL6 regiment from some backwater. If the Duke of Whatsit maintains a brigade on that backwater, you can bet they're outfitted to a higher TL.

Hmm, if you have taken an enemy planet, or even a Imperial one that is seeing unrest or rebellion, if the planet has LL8+ martial law or the like then even a TL6 unit as garrison force would be of use and have more firepower then the locals.

Occupation boots on the ground have uses.

 

[Condottiere]

The Imperium Marines are heavily armed and equipped shock troops, Stormtroopers who don't miss.

As conceptualized by GURPS, basically the USMC.

 

[welsh]

Hmm, if you have taken an enemy planet, or even a Imperial one that is seeing unrest or rebellion, if the planet has LL8+ martial law or the like then even a TL6 unit as garrison force would be of use and have more firepower then the locals.

But why would the Imperium, which (if we buy into all those ship designs) maintains its navy at TL 14-15, not equip its ground forces to a common, high tech level?

A TL 6 mercenary force makes sense, as its backers hope not to invite Imperial intervention. A TL 6 constabulary makes sense on a high-LL world.

But an Imperial TL 6 force? To maintain low-tech forces offers no advantages. Indeed, the low TL is a liability. That restive TL 6 world I'm occupying? I'm putting in an occupation force at TL 12. Technology is a huge force multiplier.

 

[creativehum]

I think part of this is an artifact of what Books 1-3 were designed to do (at its base, emulate 1950s to 1970s SF stories and novels) as opposed to the logic of the Third Imperium as it grew. It is also an artifact of a game that was supposed to be open-ended and non-specific in terms of setting in contrast to later materials that posited a very specific setting that was often at odds with the material in those three books.

Neither the 1977 or 1981 edition of Book 3, for example, make any mention of Average Imperial Technology the like in the Tech Level table or anywhere in the three books. So, what is assumed to be "normal" for the Third Imperium is an open question if one is playing with the original rules.

The Third Imperium also assumes a) much easier travel and trade (per the rules introduced in Book 5); relatively high TLs as average (against other choices a Referee could establish with Book 3); and a relatively strong influence of the "remote, centralized government" in the setting of play which seems to be much more remote in Books 1-3 than in the OTU.

For me all of this means that in the original rules one might not always have access to the best equipment or most advanced equipment. The ability to arm soldiers with weapons that can be more easily serviced on worlds on the frontier, with ammunition easier to procure, simply make sense to me. This is also why I think blades and bayonets are in the prior service career tables. I am certain there are times (again, given the implied setting of Books 1-3) that troops end up low or out of ammo while engaged. Not all the time, but it it's a risk and one of the reasons I don't think blade weapons aren't just for shipboard combat.

Given the nature of the Imperium -- it's easier reach and influence, both from the Book 5 rules and the setting material, as well as its technology and easy wealth -- it seems to me that if anyone is scratching their head as to why any soldier would be trained in Rifle in The Third Imperium the Referee/Group should simply switch out the mustering out benefits and any other skills that seem too archaic to use.

Doing something like that to help solidify the Referee's setting, after all, is absolutely keeping in the spirit of the intention of the original rules.

 

[welsh]

The reason blades and bayonets are in the tables, and that more primitive (i.e., modern day) guns dominate the rules is addressed in an early JTAS article.

It's because (a) the authors assume that throwing slugs into people remains the best way to do damage, and (b) the world you're on could be at any TL.

I'm not sure that really tells us much about the Imperial army. In the original LBB world, I suggest that either there is no Imperial army, or if there is, it is distant and irrelevant. Worlds themselves may have armies, but given that (a) most worlds are not balkanized and (b) most worlds are not facing insurrections, how many worlds actually need one?

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking it's closer to the US arrangement pre-Civil War, a small regular army and cadre officers trained up, and forces raised from the state militias and authorized units- more planetary as a subunit of the Imperium rather then feudal.

That's pretty close to what I was describing.

The actual Imperial Army is based on Capital and is the Army on worlds directly under the rule of the Emperor.

Other worlds who have armies also have the Mobilization Clause--a version of the same clause that allows the drafting of ex-scout ships and subsidized vessels during a crisis.

According to interview GDW had the Roman Empire in mind when initially outlining the Imperial setting.
So go easy on the medieval feudal trappings.

I look at the feudal structure of the Imperium to be modeled on that of Britain in the 1700's. There's a strong, powerful upper class that is not necessarily noble. Nobles exist, but it's not quite like Feudal Europe of the Dark Ages where a noble is all-powerful. Nobles are respected and, indeed, powerful, but they are more like the nobles of the 1700's.

In the 1700's, the Navy is extremely powerful.

Differences are: At the upper levels, the more "Dark Age" feudal the Empire becomes. A Marquis/Count/Baron is probably power like a president of a country or CEO of a company (powerful with respect to the company's employees).

A Duke is powerful in the way a leader of a Super Power is powerful.

The Emperor is power like the Dark Age kinds--just about all-powerful.



The other difference is how I've described the Imperial Army. When a large force is needed, then the Mobilization Clause is invoked, and worlds allow units from their home armies to go off and fight for the Imperium on some distant battlefield.

LBB:4 was written before the Imperium had even entered the proto-Traveller setting stage, Striker gives a more up to date look at the regular forces of the OTU.

Thanks. I'll look at it.

I agree, but suggest that most worlds do not actually have armies, because they have no need of armies.

You're right, there. In another thread, I speculated that the March Harrier's subsidy route consisted of Aramis, Natoko, Reacher, and L'oeul d'Dieu.

Natoko certain doesn't have a standing Army. There's less than 1,000 people on that world, and those that are there are most likely starport workers.

Likewise, L'oeul d'Dieu is a water world owned by Sharurshid. The world is undeveloped. The population is under 1,000,000, but given the circumstances, I doubt the place has an Army--more like a Sharurshid security force (that may be quasi-military).

Reacher has an Exotic atmosphere and population less than 1,000,000. Again, probably no standing Army.

Aramis has a Corrosive atmosphere with population less than 1,000,000, pretty much all crammed into one city underground on the world.

Does Aramis have an Army? Maybe a small one (probably a militarized police force--the Marquis' men). But, I guess an argument could be made that as the subsector capital, Aramis does maintain a small Army (I'd guess it has a deal with Natoko, where training of the Army happens on that barren world with the dense atmosphere.)

As Ref's, we should consider each world's characteristics and decide which character generation careers are available at each place. If a Ref decided that the homeworlds that he'd use for his game were the four worlds of the Harrier's subsidy, and a player wanted to roll up an Army character, that would probably decide the homeworld for the character. His homeworld would be the world where the Army exists.

The Imperium has no need of a TL6 regiment from some backwater.

I'd disagree.

It depends on the enemy.

Let's say the religious zealots on Pysadi (TL 4) are in open revolt of the Imperium, and the Marquis of Aramis has sent in troops (he'd probably end in Marines from the Naval Base on Aramis, but this is an Army example).

If the Mobilization Clause is used, troops from balkanized TL 6 Aramanx are shuffled over to Pysadi to occupy the planet, beat the hell out of the natives, and restore peace and good will among the Emperor's vassals.

The TL 6 Aramaxians can easily handle the TL 4 Pysadians....you would think. :coffeesip:

 

[mike wightman]

In the Spinward Marches the local noble is much more likely to hire a mercenary force than to try to activate a (possibly non-existent) mobilisation clause in a local world's membership charter (it may even require an Imperial Warrant to do such a thing).

On the frontiers, extensive home rule provisions allow planetary populations to choose their own forms of government,
{home government generally involving a much higher degree of local autonomy than had previously existed (the Persian system of Satrapies)}
raise and maintain armed forces for local security, pass and enforce laws governing local conduct, and regulate (within limits) commerce.

The Spinward Marches was intended to be a place where mercenaries are a common thing, Imperial Navy and Marines keep their distance, and the Imperial Army is at least half a sector away.

The Golden Age of the Mercenary will have arrived.

A subsector duke possibly has his own household troops, he will definitely have the cash... the cash to hire mercenaries.

 

[creativehum]

The reason blades and bayonets are in the tables, and that more primitive (i.e., modern day) guns dominate the rules is addressed in an early JTAS article.

It's because (a) the authors assume that throwing slugs into people remains the best way to do damage, and (b) the world you're on could be at any TL.

I don't think I said anything different than that, but yes.

 

[Supplement Four]

The Golden Age of the Mercenary will have arrived.

A subsector duke possibly has his own household troops, he will definitely have the cash the cash to hire mercenaries.

Hammer's Slammers!

A personal favorite.

 

[mike wightman]

I am more of a fan of Falkenberg's Legion. The Dorsai saga wasn't a bad take on mercs initially.

 

[Supplement Four]

I am more of a fan of Falkenberg's Legion. The Dorsai saga wasn't a bad take on mercs initially.

I need to read both of those. I've got them both, somewhere, in the stack.

But, I love me some Hammer's Slammers. I've read all of them twice, I think. I'm due for another reading.

 

[Condottiere]

Unless it's for policing single worlds, I rather doubt there are enough mercenaries, nor the capability to properly coordinate them, in a general war with the Zhodani.

 

[Supplement Four]

LBB:4 was written before the Imperium had even entered the proto-Traveller setting stage, Striker gives a more up to date look at the regular forces of the OTU.

I just went over my three Striker LBB's. I don't see anything in there about the Imperial Army. Do you have a page number?