CT Only: Soldiers

[Supplement Four]

Imperial Army, equal in stature to the IISS and the IN - to paraphrase the quote from LBB6.
The Imperial Army has an intelligence branch, the Imperial Army has letterheads, there are Imperial Army veterans as sample characters.

There is an Imperial Army.

But, just about all that stuff can be chalked up to the type of Imperial Army I have described--one that is not like the Imperial Navy, but made up of vassal world Armies under the Mobilization Clause in times of Imperial crisis.

When the FFW is raging, there's lots of Imperial Army around made up of all sorts of units from different places. They've got an intelligence branch. They've got letterhead. They've got veterans.

After the war, you can't find Imperial Army folk. The true Imperial Army is that on Capital, and they probably have extremely small units at Scout Weigh Stations and what not.

You don't see any Imperial Army bases on any worlds (besides the Captial ones) do you?

The Imperial Army base is not one that is placed during world creation.

There's a lot of strong evidence that the Imperial Army is a very small force, galactically speaking, until it bolsters itself with vassal armies in times of need.

 

[Supplement Four]

Tarsus

For those interested, the Tarsus boxed set has an excellent, in depth write-up on a small world Army that is not balkanized. It states there that most worlds that have a population of 1 million plus usually have an army.

The army described is definitely not the Imperial Army. It's called the TDF - Tarsus Defense Force. And, its history shows how an Army can still be had on worlds with much smaller populations.

Even now, the TDF operates with 3 small but full-time active units and a much larger militia that can be called upon in times of need.

The TDF doubles as a police force on the world, and its main reason for existence is protection from invasion by the Sword Worlds.

 

[Condottiere]

At a million, you're looking more at a militia, in order to make up the numbers.

That also means you'd need less law enforcement per capita, since social pressure would keep most in line.

 

[welsh]

Does Aramis have an Army? Maybe a small one (probably a militarized police force--the Marquis' men).

The Marquis will have his regiments, but this is an interesting example. He likely would keep only a ceremonial guard on Aramis, and would quarter the rest of his regiments elsewhere -- somewhere they could train, etc.

Let's say the religious zealots on Pysadi (TL 4) are in open revolt of the Imperium, and the Marquis of Aramis has sent in troops (he'd probably end in Marines from the Naval Base on Aramis, but this is an Army example).

Once the Marines have smacked Pysadi into line, a new government will be installed, and it will use local forces or mercenaries to control the planet -- not Imperial forces, but local.

 

[aramis]

At a million, you're looking more at a militia, in order to make up the numbers.

That also means you'd need less law enforcement per capita, since social pressure would keep most in line.

Uh, no. You're way off.

2010 US Army 562,400 active duty
US population about 309 million...
1.8 actives per 1000 people.

Just shy of triple that adding the other forces. (4.5 per K)

A 1 million is 1000 thousands... so 1800 people for a million. About 14 companies, or roughly a largish regiment.
Plus a battalion of marines.
And an Air-Wing.

And the US isn't the highest rate per capita, either.

Total forces can run to 10 per 1000 people, and as low as about 0.3 per 1000...
but 1-5 per 1000 for total forces

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/end-strength.htm
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/tables/2010-2016/state/totals/nst-est2016-01.xlsx

 

[Supplement Four]

The Marquis will have his regiments, but this is an interesting example. He likely would keep only a ceremonial guard on Aramis, and would quarter the rest of his regiments elsewhere -- somewhere they could train, etc.

I wondered about that, and I've already speculated that the Royal Guard has a big playground to play around in on nearby Natoko, if a deal can be worked out with Tukera.

The Marquis, though, only directly controls Aramis. That's his fief. And, I wonder how far his influence really reaches in the subsector. He's the highest ranking noble in the subsector, and Aramis is the subsector capital.

OTOH, each world in the subsector is detailed, to an extent. If the powder keg of Aramanx blew, I wonder how much the Marquis could do about it.

Again...he'd send in the Imperial Marines, not his Royal Guard.





Ex-Army Characters

Except for the Other career, the Army has the easiest enlistment. Just based on that, you'd think that there were a lot of ex-Army characters around. But, there's got to be Armies in which to enlist--the opportunity for the career needs to be there.

The Tarsus boxed set say that most worlds with 1 million or more population have some sort of Army. I'm not sure if I can see that, especially away from the frontier. If a world isn't balkanized, what real threat is there? Why keep a standing army? Why spend so much of the GNP on military spending in situations where there is no real reason to have an Army?





Army or Navy?

It seems most practical that a world in the 3I will either have an Army or a Navy/Marine Corps for planetary defense, unless there is a reason (like a frontier planet next to the Zho's) to have both.

Low tech worlds will have armies. Meet the enemies on your own ground.

At some point, at the higher tech levels, Navy/Marines become more important. Meet the enemy in space, away from the homeworld.

 

[Supplement Four]

As far as the Marquis' Royal Guards go, I'm sure it's a small army, focused on individual unit tactics. Leedor is an underground city on a world with a corrosive atmosphere.

I doubt the Army on Aramis, if there is an Army, has battalions of artillery nor squadrons of grav tanks.

This is another reason they may not travel. They're not equipped to do so. When an Army is needed, it is needed to hold or take land. The world of Aramis doesn't support a population that would maintain a large, standing army, even if other circumstances supported the idea.

 

[Supplement Four]

Which is making me think about--just how many real Armies are there in the Aramis subsector?

Of the four worlds that I've focused on (Aramis, Natoko, Reacher, and L'oeul d'Dieu), none have the resources to support a large, standing army.

Neither does Pysadi (Well, it does, but those troops would be useless of of Pysadi and its 0.5G field at TL 4).

Neither does Patinir. If anything, it's Navy and Marines in this planetoid belt.

Aramanx, though, has several TL 6 Armies, given its balkanized state and the impending world war.




It looks to me that Army characters come from specific worlds, and it's not as easy to be use the Army career as it is, say, the Merchants, or even the Navy and Marines.




Careers.

In light of this, I'd say...

Other career is available just about anywhere.

Merchants are probably the most prevalent among Travellers.

Naval and Marine characters are common, via the Imperial bases (and the use by local worlds).

Scouts are somewhat rare. They have less number of bases.

Army characters are seen less often than Navy or Marine characters, and many Army characters will be from lower tech worlds (because higher tech worlds with one government tend to rely on Naval and Marine forces).

 

[welsh]

Except for the Other career, the Army has the easiest enlistment. Just based on that, you'd think that there were a lot of ex-Army characters around.

Not necessarily. Army enlistment may be easy because they struggle to get people who want to join up.

Low tech worlds will have armies. Meet the enemies on your own ground.

Why invade a low-tech world?

One of the problems here is that nobody has really worked out how wars would work, i.e. what the real strategic objectives would be, and how to obtain them. The Fifth Frontier War exists to provide a fun military campaign, not to model how wars would work.

Do the Zhos need resources? If not, why take worlds? If you want to cripple Imperial expansion, why not just nuke their mid-importance worlds back to the stone age?

Armies may be the least important forces in major wars.

I doubt the Army on Aramis, if there is an Army, has battalions of artillery nor squadrons of grav tanks.

Unless we see it in terms of the Marquis having an obligation to raise regiments of troops for use in Imperial campaigns.

Look at how the regimental system worked in the 19th century. People did not raise regiments to project their own power. They raised them to place them at the disposal of the crown. I suggest that this is the "Imperial army."

So you have local armies on Aramanx, and you have a (fairly small, probably) force of Imperial troops, the 14/17 Grav Dragoons (Marquis of Aramis' Own).

 

[Supplement Four]

Not necessarily. Army enlistment may be easy because they struggle to get people who want to join up.

Excellent point!

Why invade a low-tech world?

Because....the world had some very profitable lanthanum mines that the indigs are sitting on?

 

[Condottiere]

Out of a population of sixty eight million, Germany could field four and a half million men in nineteen fourteen.

France managed four million out of forty.

I think ten percent of a population can be mobilized as militia.

 

[whartung]

I'd disagree.

It depends on the enemy.

Not really.

It depends on the infrastructure built to support the fighting force.

There's value in standardization within the service. Why would a TL 15 fighting force maintain a TL 6 arm? To what end?

Would the Imperium even garrison a planet? Against whom? The Imperium can care less about an indigenous TL 4 tribe making trouble for the locals. That's not the Imperium's job, that's a local problem. The local can staff up, fight them, bargain with them, rent a merc unit, or leave. The local nobility might support them, but, again, it's on their dime, not the Imperium's.

I can see a TL 6 Mercenary force, but I'd debate whether a TL 6 fighting force would be any cheaper than a TL 9 or TL 12 force. They all have to eat, and arguably you can do more with a smaller higher TL force than a larger lower TL force, making day to day costs lower. Plus a TL 6 force wouldn't have any intrinsic lift capacity -- they're TL 6! "What's a space ship??"

No doubt there's a point of diminishing returns in terms of how much of a multiplier a higher TL force brings to the table, especially against a lower TL force. TL12 is probably more than adequate compared to a TL 15, for example. Why pay for a TL 15 force.

But the Imperium would pay for a TL 15 force, as it's facing a high TL opponent. Do you think that there are TL 9 Imperial Marines out there? TL 12? I think the "TL" of a Marine Unit not needing the latest Combat Armor/Battle Drees/Fusion weapons would be a fuzzy number. They could be TL 15 and still use Gauss Rifles, but they might be using meson communicators and individual grav belts. Why would they use it? Because that's the gear they have and that's how they're trained.

Because the Imperium is staffed and equipped to supply and emplace a TL 15 force. If TL 15 Marines need fusion powered grav tanks and what not, the Imperium will have the "tail" in place to support and supply such a unit, even on a primitive world. They may not bring the nuclear dampers along, but, hey, a towed piece of meson artillery would certainly make quick work of a village of grass huts, and, why not, the forces are trained to work with these things anyway. (Of course they're more likely used to working with ortillery in that case instead...) They're certainly not going to leave behind their geo-spatial mapping drones/satellites that they're map boxes interface with. "Meson artillery -- just point and click. Put the + over the grass huts, and..."

 

[mike wightman]

The Imperial Army units in FFW are just about all TL15 with only a few at TL14, for example seven of the 5C field armies units are TL15 while there is only one TL14 5C field army unit.
The Colonial (Imperial) Army units range from TL8 to TL15.

Note that the vast bulk of the Imperial Army is only available from off board from turn 10 onwards, while colonial Army unit reinforcements - which are now Imperialised rather than named - are available from turn 6.

 

[Supplement Four]

Note that the vast bulk of the Imperial Army is only available from off board from turn 10 onwards, while colonial Army unit reinforcements - which are now Imperialised rather than named - are available from turn 6.

Because...they're coming from Capital?

Well, that's too far for a 10 week trip. We know that.

 

[mike wightman]

Ten turns are ten weeks.

They are from Deneb - which is where the nearest Imperial Army Waystations are

 

[Supplement Four]

Ten turns are ten weeks.

They are from Deneb - which is where the nearest Imperial Army Waystations are

Those are Scout Waystations, correct?

 

[Whipsnade]

Those are Scout Waystations, correct?

S:3, page 2: Imperial Way Station - A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of Imperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations.

 

[Supplement Four]

S:3, page 2: Imperial Way Station - A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of Imperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations.

I count one of Mirriam, a TL A world.

One on Efate, a TL D world.

One on Persephone, a TL A world.

One on Junidy, a TL D world.

One on Katarulu, a TL B world.



Five Imperial Way Stations for the entire Sector.

 

[pendragonman]

I count one of Mirriam, a TL A world.

One on Efate, a TL D world.

One on Persephone, a TL A world.

One on Junidy, a TL D world.

One on Katarulu, a TL B world.



Five Imperial Way Stations for the entire Sector.

The entire sector isn't Imperial space might have a bearing on the number.

 

[creativehum]

The entire sector isn't Imperial space might have a bearing on the number.

And the fact that the Spinward Marches are only at the beginning of development. The "hub of new development in the Spinward Marches is the Regina subsector" says Supplement 3. Which, to me, suggests the commitment of the Imperium is pretty far back toward the coreward edge of the Marches. They'll defend against an incursion into Regina, but they don't feel responsible for the whole damned thing.