Solomani Rim

[flykiller]

Seems to me there are pretty good reasons to have an interlock on your lifeboat launches.

yeah, there are. the problem is that by the time you need the lifeboat usually there are all sorts of things going wrong, like computer malfunctions, electrical fires, dead officers, and small-arms fire. it's better to keep the lifeboat isolated from such events as much as possible.

(I'm a graduate of the "things go wrong" school. I look at deckplans showing electrically-operated iris valves between inhabited spaces and vacuum, and I just shake my head.)

The other thing it would prevent is launches in jump space or in other hazardous areas and accidental launches by kids and such.

now locking up the lifeboat in jump space is in fact a good idea, but out of jump space I'd leave it accessible even to kids. the boat should have a sensor system that sounds an alarm when the access hatch is opened or a warm body is aboard, but there should be nothing to prevent anyone from entering and launching at any time.

ah, it's mostly a moot point anyway. how many deckplans or ship tonnage listings have any lifeboats at all?

 

[flykiller]

Seems to me there are pretty good reasons to have an interlock on your lifeboat launches.

yeah, there are. the problem is that by the time you need the lifeboat usually there are all sorts of things going wrong, like computer malfunctions, electrical fires, dead officers, and small-arms fire. it's better to keep the lifeboat isolated from such events as much as possible.

(I'm a graduate of the "things go wrong" school. I look at deckplans showing electrically-operated iris valves between inhabited spaces and vacuum, and I just shake my head.)

The other thing it would prevent is launches in jump space or in other hazardous areas and accidental launches by kids and such.

now locking up the lifeboat in jump space is in fact a good idea, but out of jump space I'd leave it accessible even to kids. the boat should have a sensor system that sounds an alarm when the access hatch is opened or a warm body is aboard, but there should be nothing to prevent anyone from entering and launching at any time.

ah, it's mostly a moot point anyway. how many deckplans or ship tonnage listings have any lifeboats at all?

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by flykiller:
yeah, there are. the problem is that by the time you need the lifeboat usually there are all sorts of things going wrong, like computer malfunctions, electrical fires, dead officers, and small-arms fire. it's better to keep the lifeboat isolated from such events as much as possible.

(I'm a graduate of the "things go wrong" school. I look at deckplans showing electrically-operated iris valves between inhabited spaces and vacuum, and I just shake my head.)

I'm suggesting that in order to launch a lifeboat, the ship's computer must 1) have declared an emergency (by authorized crewmember or by alarm-pull), 2) have ceased to function (thus leading to independent control by lifeboat stations) or 3) must detect a situation which matches certain preset parameters.

As to the iris valve, I always assumed an access panel with a rotor-gear which was manually handle-driven (crank handle inside the panel, just stick in the gear) and if the power went off, the electric power locks went off too, so a hand crank could open it.

now locking up the lifeboat in jump space is in fact a good idea, but out of jump space I'd leave it accessible even to kids. the boat should have a sensor system that sounds an alarm when the access hatch is opened or a warm body is aboard, but there should be nothing to prevent anyone from entering and launching at any time.

Have to say interlocks on doors based on risk of depressurization and interlocks on lifeboats based on threats to nearby shipping or issues with launching lifeboats and then having to fetch back the boat and the runaway passenger (esp with a manouver-1 lifeboat and a manouver-1 starship....) are just too significant to make me believe they are always unlocked in normal space.

Alarm pulls are always avialable, and once one has been pulled, it opens nearby lifepods. However, it also alerts the bridge, who can cancel the alarm and lock down the pods. So people can still escape, but kids can't cause a major schedule impact and terrorists can't use them to cause havoc easily.

ah, it's mostly a moot point anyway. how many deckplans or ship tonnage listings have any lifeboats at all? [/QB]

Well, I think the most overlooked things on ships are:

1. Emergency exits
2. Lifeboats
3. Freshers including showers
4. Medical areas
5. Storage for food and crew equipment

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by flykiller:
yeah, there are. the problem is that by the time you need the lifeboat usually there are all sorts of things going wrong, like computer malfunctions, electrical fires, dead officers, and small-arms fire. it's better to keep the lifeboat isolated from such events as much as possible.

(I'm a graduate of the "things go wrong" school. I look at deckplans showing electrically-operated iris valves between inhabited spaces and vacuum, and I just shake my head.)

I'm suggesting that in order to launch a lifeboat, the ship's computer must 1) have declared an emergency (by authorized crewmember or by alarm-pull), 2) have ceased to function (thus leading to independent control by lifeboat stations) or 3) must detect a situation which matches certain preset parameters.

As to the iris valve, I always assumed an access panel with a rotor-gear which was manually handle-driven (crank handle inside the panel, just stick in the gear) and if the power went off, the electric power locks went off too, so a hand crank could open it.

now locking up the lifeboat in jump space is in fact a good idea, but out of jump space I'd leave it accessible even to kids. the boat should have a sensor system that sounds an alarm when the access hatch is opened or a warm body is aboard, but there should be nothing to prevent anyone from entering and launching at any time.

Have to say interlocks on doors based on risk of depressurization and interlocks on lifeboats based on threats to nearby shipping or issues with launching lifeboats and then having to fetch back the boat and the runaway passenger (esp with a manouver-1 lifeboat and a manouver-1 starship....) are just too significant to make me believe they are always unlocked in normal space.

Alarm pulls are always avialable, and once one has been pulled, it opens nearby lifepods. However, it also alerts the bridge, who can cancel the alarm and lock down the pods. So people can still escape, but kids can't cause a major schedule impact and terrorists can't use them to cause havoc easily.

ah, it's mostly a moot point anyway. how many deckplans or ship tonnage listings have any lifeboats at all? [/QB]

Well, I think the most overlooked things on ships are:

1. Emergency exits
2. Lifeboats
3. Freshers including showers
4. Medical areas
5. Storage for food and crew equipment

 

[Whipsnade]

Gentlemen,

Yup, plenty of stuff is usually overlooked in Traveller ship designs and deckplans. Some of it can be handwaved away as relatively small details that only need to be included by a GM; things like every compartment having fire fighting equipment, rescue balls or comm panels. (Although *I* would still like to know they are there!) However, some of the missing stuff is downright weird; like no sickbays, food and parts storage, etc.

I'm a small craft crank. Every time I see the design of some 100k dTon super-dreadnaught posted without a SINGLE BOAT aboard I need to take my pills. Sheesh! No small craft? The admiral doesn't need a launch to make that date for cocktails with Miss Mora 1114? No one wants fresh food brought aboard? All maintenance done on the hull and other 'outside equipment' is done in suits? No SAR assets for the poor suited SOBs who were crawling over the hull? Ooooog... where are my pills...

My cruiser; 600 feet long and ~600 men, had a gaggle of boats aboard. There were 2 or 3 launches for the 'ossifers', a couple of small whalers, three 50 foot liberty launches, plus a few punts and zodiacs tucked away. While all of those acted as lifeboats too, most of our lifeboats were the inflatable raft type.

You've seen them on every USN ship; they're the 55-gallon drum looking things hanging in groups along the superstructure and upper hull. Those puppies supposedly self-deployed. The ship would sink and at a certain water pressure they inflated to pop to the surface. You could deploy them manually too. Because they're small and will most likely be damaged by the same things that sink the ship, many more of them are carried than are actually needed.

IMTU, most 'lifeboats' aboard larger vessels are like that; big, self-deploying, inflated, multi-man rescue balls that the real small craft can round up and support after launch. These lifeboats contain a sort range radio, radar reflector, and EMS screamer plus CO2 scrubbing and water.

My designs have plenty of small craft aboard. One mini-campaign of mine featured an 1800 dTon patrol corvette with ten 10dTon recon-fighters, two 50 dTon cutters, and a 10dTon launch aboard. Large combatents IMTU; say 3K dTon and up, also hangar a navalized version* of the classic 100 dTon scout/courier. Just like all the recon float planes carried aboard CAs and BBs saving space on the CVs for attack planes, I figure the more couriers carried with the fleet the better.

Ship's stores are another sore point with me. Walt Smith has some nifty rules on his website dealing with CT and HG2 warship supply requirements. Basically, it boils down to 1% of dsiplacement in stores for every one month of unsupplied operations. (He freely admits that may still be too low.)


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

Gentlemen,

Yup, plenty of stuff is usually overlooked in Traveller ship designs and deckplans. Some of it can be handwaved away as relatively small details that only need to be included by a GM; things like every compartment having fire fighting equipment, rescue balls or comm panels. (Although *I* would still like to know they are there!) However, some of the missing stuff is downright weird; like no sickbays, food and parts storage, etc.

I'm a small craft crank. Every time I see the design of some 100k dTon super-dreadnaught posted without a SINGLE BOAT aboard I need to take my pills. Sheesh! No small craft? The admiral doesn't need a launch to make that date for cocktails with Miss Mora 1114? No one wants fresh food brought aboard? All maintenance done on the hull and other 'outside equipment' is done in suits? No SAR assets for the poor suited SOBs who were crawling over the hull? Ooooog... where are my pills...

My cruiser; 600 feet long and ~600 men, had a gaggle of boats aboard. There were 2 or 3 launches for the 'ossifers', a couple of small whalers, three 50 foot liberty launches, plus a few punts and zodiacs tucked away. While all of those acted as lifeboats too, most of our lifeboats were the inflatable raft type.

You've seen them on every USN ship; they're the 55-gallon drum looking things hanging in groups along the superstructure and upper hull. Those puppies supposedly self-deployed. The ship would sink and at a certain water pressure they inflated to pop to the surface. You could deploy them manually too. Because they're small and will most likely be damaged by the same things that sink the ship, many more of them are carried than are actually needed.

IMTU, most 'lifeboats' aboard larger vessels are like that; big, self-deploying, inflated, multi-man rescue balls that the real small craft can round up and support after launch. These lifeboats contain a sort range radio, radar reflector, and EMS screamer plus CO2 scrubbing and water.

My designs have plenty of small craft aboard. One mini-campaign of mine featured an 1800 dTon patrol corvette with ten 10dTon recon-fighters, two 50 dTon cutters, and a 10dTon launch aboard. Large combatents IMTU; say 3K dTon and up, also hangar a navalized version* of the classic 100 dTon scout/courier. Just like all the recon float planes carried aboard CAs and BBs saving space on the CVs for attack planes, I figure the more couriers carried with the fleet the better.

Ship's stores are another sore point with me. Walt Smith has some nifty rules on his website dealing with CT and HG2 warship supply requirements. Basically, it boils down to 1% of dsiplacement in stores for every one month of unsupplied operations. (He freely admits that may still be too low.)


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[RainOfSteel]

Larsen,

I house-rule that 10% of the Bridge's displacement is "Ship's Locker", and on larger vessel's, this can be deployed in more than one location.

In a 100 dTon starship, the bridge is 20 tons, and so a ship's locker has 2 dTons of space. Two to four Light or Medium Escape Bubbles can be declared a part of that and fit into one corner (usually a front corner in a pre-built cabinet).

Every crew and passenger cabin comes with one Light Escape Bubble and one general fit light pressure suit per occupant the cabin is equipped for (included in the dTonnage of the cabin itself).

Also, each airlock purchased comes with 2 Light Escape Bubbles, and two general fit light pressure suits. Larger vessels may equip extra escape support in the form of 1-dTon increments, each of which carries 28 Medium Escape Bubbles, but this usually only happens on military vessels.

The above usually takes care of most survival situations.

Small craft can, of course, serve as life-rafts, and aid in recovery of crew using Escape Bubbles or simple pressure suits.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Larsen,

I house-rule that 10% of the Bridge's displacement is "Ship's Locker", and on larger vessel's, this can be deployed in more than one location.

In a 100 dTon starship, the bridge is 20 tons, and so a ship's locker has 2 dTons of space. Two to four Light or Medium Escape Bubbles can be declared a part of that and fit into one corner (usually a front corner in a pre-built cabinet).

Every crew and passenger cabin comes with one Light Escape Bubble and one general fit light pressure suit per occupant the cabin is equipped for (included in the dTonnage of the cabin itself).

Also, each airlock purchased comes with 2 Light Escape Bubbles, and two general fit light pressure suits. Larger vessels may equip extra escape support in the form of 1-dTon increments, each of which carries 28 Medium Escape Bubbles, but this usually only happens on military vessels.

The above usually takes care of most survival situations.

Small craft can, of course, serve as life-rafts, and aid in recovery of crew using Escape Bubbles or simple pressure suits.

 

[flykiller]

Ship's stores are another sore point with me. Walt Smith has some nifty rules on his website dealing with CT and HG2 warship supply requirements. Basically, it boils down to 1% of dsiplacement in stores for every one month of unsupplied operations. (He freely admits that may still be too low.)

sounds very similar to rules I posted over a year ago. may I ask for the link to smith's stores rules?

 

[flykiller]

Ship's stores are another sore point with me. Walt Smith has some nifty rules on his website dealing with CT and HG2 warship supply requirements. Basically, it boils down to 1% of dsiplacement in stores for every one month of unsupplied operations. (He freely admits that may still be too low.)

sounds very similar to rules I posted over a year ago. may I ask for the link to smith's stores rules?

 

[Whipsnade]

flykiller wrote:

"sounds very similar to rules I posted over a year ago. may I ask for the link to smith's stores rules?"


Flykiller,

Great minds must think alike. Check out:

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/traveller.htm

Look at his 100 dTon Jump Pod design. It's just begging to be used in an adventure. His HG2 battle reports are very good too.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

flykiller wrote:

"sounds very similar to rules I posted over a year ago. may I ask for the link to smith's stores rules?"


Flykiller,

Great minds must think alike. Check out:

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/traveller.htm

Look at his 100 dTon Jump Pod design. It's just begging to be used in an adventure. His HG2 battle reports are very good too.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Every time I see the design of some 100k dTon super-dreadnaught posted without a SINGLE BOAT aboard I need to take my pills. Sheesh! No small craft? The admiral doesn't need a launch to make that date for cocktails with Miss Mora 1114? No one wants fresh food brought aboard? All maintenance done on the hull and other 'outside equipment' is done in suits? No SAR assets for the poor suited SOBs who were crawling over the hull? Ooooog... where are my pills...

Almost every capital ship in any navy IMTU carries a jump-capable lifeboat/courier. If a capital ship misjumps and winds up in interstellar space with thrashed jump drives, the High Command wants to know about it, PRONTO!


Hans

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Every time I see the design of some 100k dTon super-dreadnaught posted without a SINGLE BOAT aboard I need to take my pills. Sheesh! No small craft? The admiral doesn't need a launch to make that date for cocktails with Miss Mora 1114? No one wants fresh food brought aboard? All maintenance done on the hull and other 'outside equipment' is done in suits? No SAR assets for the poor suited SOBs who were crawling over the hull? Ooooog... where are my pills...

Almost every capital ship in any navy IMTU carries a jump-capable lifeboat/courier. If a capital ship misjumps and winds up in interstellar space with thrashed jump drives, the High Command wants to know about it, PRONTO!


Hans

 

[flykiller]

Check out:

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/traveller.htm

Look at his 100 dTon Jump Pod design. It's just begging to be used in an adventure.

yes, that is an intriguing layout concept.

it seems his supply rules are different. our tonnage requirements are similar, but his effects seem oriented more towards PC's while mine are oriented more towards a fleet commander.

 

[flykiller]

Check out:

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/traveller.htm

Look at his 100 dTon Jump Pod design. It's just begging to be used in an adventure.

yes, that is an intriguing layout concept.

it seems his supply rules are different. our tonnage requirements are similar, but his effects seem oriented more towards PC's while mine are oriented more towards a fleet commander.

 

[Whipsnade]

rancke wrote:

"Almost every capital ship in any navy IMTU carries a jump-capable lifeboat/courier. If a capital ship misjumps and winds up in interstellar space with thrashed jump drives, the High Command wants to know about it, PRONTO!"


Mr. Rancke-Madsen,

Sure enough! I'll wager it does wonders for morale too. It doesn't matter where you misjump to, the courier(s) aboard will be able to bring back help.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

rancke wrote:

"Almost every capital ship in any navy IMTU carries a jump-capable lifeboat/courier. If a capital ship misjumps and winds up in interstellar space with thrashed jump drives, the High Command wants to know about it, PRONTO!"


Mr. Rancke-Madsen,

Sure enough! I'll wager it does wonders for morale too. It doesn't matter where you misjump to, the courier(s) aboard will be able to bring back help.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

flykiller wrote concerning Mr. Walter Smith's jump pod design:

"yes, that is an intriguing layout concept."


Mr. Flykiller,

It is, isn't it? Taking into account jump masking and jump shadows effects on in-system travel (the purpose behind Earth's original jump drive research), it might be easier to support a belt mining operation from outside of the system in which it is located. Mr. Smith's 100dT jump pods could very cheaply supply, support, and reposition various prospecting and mining parties. I'm always intrigued by the design's adventure possibilities.

"it seems his supply rules are different. our tonnage requirements are similar, but his effects seem oriented more towards PC's while mine are oriented more towards a fleet commander."

That's the ever-present fault line within Our Olde Game; it is both and at the same time a RPG and a wargame. Certain rules, either home-brewed or official, work better with the RPG aspects while others lend themselves to the wargame side of things.

Did you check out his proposed flag bridge rules? Those are geared more towards the wargame side.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

flykiller wrote concerning Mr. Walter Smith's jump pod design:

"yes, that is an intriguing layout concept."


Mr. Flykiller,

It is, isn't it? Taking into account jump masking and jump shadows effects on in-system travel (the purpose behind Earth's original jump drive research), it might be easier to support a belt mining operation from outside of the system in which it is located. Mr. Smith's 100dT jump pods could very cheaply supply, support, and reposition various prospecting and mining parties. I'm always intrigued by the design's adventure possibilities.

"it seems his supply rules are different. our tonnage requirements are similar, but his effects seem oriented more towards PC's while mine are oriented more towards a fleet commander."

That's the ever-present fault line within Our Olde Game; it is both and at the same time a RPG and a wargame. Certain rules, either home-brewed or official, work better with the RPG aspects while others lend themselves to the wargame side of things.

Did you check out his proposed flag bridge rules? Those are geared more towards the wargame side.


Sincerely,
Larsen