Some Interesting Demographics

[aramis]

I decided to start doing some demographics on the marches...

The per capita GWP (ordered by Striker GWP/Person, subordered by Pop then TL) is
10th %ile: Rethe (2408) E230AA8-8 Im Cr5120
25th %ile: Roup (2007) C77A9A9-7 S A Im Cr8,400
50th %ile: Riverland (1102) C566A99-9 A Zh Cr16,000
75th %ile: Sacnoth (1325) B775956-C M Bw Cr22,400
90th %ile: Efate (1705) A646930-D B Im Cr25,200
95th %ile: Trin (3235) A894A96-F A Im Cr30,800
100th %ile: Darrian 0627 A463955-G Da Cr38,400

The average sector GWP per person by world is Cr8,213.69, and by person is Cr15,073.77
Average Imperial is Cr8,260.41 by world, and Cr14,954.38 by person
Sword Worlds is Cr14,985.33 by world, Cr17,477.15 by person
Border Worlds is Cr9,018.18 by world, Cr11,759.02 by person
Fed. of Arden is Cr6,262.86 by world, Cr7,991.50 by person
Darrian is Cr9,423.27 by world, Cr20,312.57 by person

Darrian demographic look is interesting... the top 97.7%iles by income are 5 worlds (of 22 in the Darrian Confed)
Entrope (0720) E336AAA-C Da Cr16,000
Zamine (0421) E897977-A Da Cr16,800
Roget (0427) B566777-9 Da Cr19,200
Mire (0527) A665A95-B M Da Cr22,400
Darrian (0627) A463955-G Da Cr38,400
Just those 5 worlds, Cr22,560.00 average by world, Cr20,597.67 by Person
Darrian space is extreme...

At the opposite end of the spectrum, the client states are pretty poor...
average by world is Cr6,834.00 per person, and average per person is lower: Cr4,611.52. Which, presuming a UK-ish distribution of wealth, means the median citizen is making some Cr3274 per year (71% of the average GDP per person)... Cr252 or so per imperial month. (In MegaTraveller, that means Soc 1...)

Over half the population of the marches is on 11 worlds:
Strouden 2327 A745988-D N Im
Louzy 1604 D322A88-8 _ Im
Entrope 0720 E336AAA-C _ Da
Mire 0527 A665A95-B M Da
Trin 3235 A894A96-F A Im
Mora 3124 AA99AC7-F A Im
Riverland 1102 C566A99-9 A Zh
Fornice 3025 A354A87-C _ Im
Narsil 0927 B574A55-A M Sw
Porozlo 2715 A867A74-B _ Im
Rethe 2408 E230AA8-8 _ Im
Junidy 3202 B434ABD-9 W Im

Over half the Imperial population is on just 6.
Louzy 1604 D322A88-8 _ Im
Trin 3235 A894A96-F A Im
Mora 3124 AA99AC7-F A Im
Fornice 3025 A354A87-C _ Im
Porozlo 2715 A867A74-B _ Im
Rethe 2408 E230AA8-8 _ Im
Junidy 3202 B434ABD-9 W Im

Strouden, Efate, and lunion push it to 60% of the Impies on 9 worlds.

 

[Timerover51]

The Current CIA World Factbook has the GWP of the Earth per capita at $12,400 per person.

 

[aramis]

The Current CIA World Factbook has the GWP of the Earth per capita at $12,400 per person.

Yep. Traveller, however, was extrapolated from the US economy, not the world economy.
US GDP per capita
1975 $7,517
1976 $8,297
1977 $9,143
1978 $10,225
1979 $11,302
1980 $12,180
1981 $13,526
1982 $13,933
1983 $15,000
1984 $16,539
1985 $17,589

Striker describing earth of then is probably only TL7 Ag, maybe TL7 Rich. Cr7200 per capita, tho maybe Rich Cr9600 or even Ri Ag for Cr11520. If the US was merely Rich, then that's a perfect fit to the 1977 US$... (note that the US can't be described in 1977 as In, because it lacked the tainted atmosphere. Well, outside certain major cities, at least.)

And we are, pretty firmly, now TL8. Cr8000 for no TC, Cr9600 for Ag, Cr12800 for Rich, and Cr15360 for Rich Ag... and the 2010 US GDP/person is $47,153... converting to 1977 dollars via the CPI conversion method... $13,104... pretty close to TL8 Rich...

 

[rancke]

Striker describing earth of then is probably only TL7 Ag, maybe TL7 Rich. Cr7200 per capita, tho maybe Rich Cr9600 or even Ri Ag for Cr11520. If the US was merely Rich, then that's a perfect fit to the 1977 US$... (note that the US can't be described in 1977 as In, because it lacked the tainted atmosphere. Well, outside certain major cities, at least.)

And we are, pretty firmly, now TL8. Cr8000 for no TC, Cr9600 for Ag, Cr12800 for Rich, and Cr15360 for Rich Ag... and the 2010 US GDP/person is $47,153... converting to 1977 dollars via the CPI conversion method... $13,104... pretty close to TL8 Rich...

Can't be Rich or Agricultural with a population in the billions.


Hans

 

[Timerover51]

Can't be Rich or Agricultural with a population in the billions.


Hans

He is just using the US, Hans, so population would be in the hundreds of millions.

 

[mike wightman]

TL G isn't the "true" TL of Darrian.

Does swapping it with TL13, Darrian's "true" TL base, make a big difference?

 

[Ishmael]

I'd also say that much depends on the ruleset used.
Exchange rates work out differently when using Pocket Empires, which is a better model of the OTU economies.

 

[Vladika]

Does an Industrial world really need to have a tainted atmosphere at higher tech levels?

I know that at lower TLs it is pretty unavoidable.

I'd guess that aramis was referring to cities like Pittsburgh PA for 70's pollution, but note how that city has cleaned up.

I'd think after a couple of thousand years of increasingly higher TLs that you could have significant industry without the associated pollution we currently "enjoy".

 

[HG_B]

Does an Industrial world really need to have a tainted atmosphere at higher tech levels?

I know that at lower TLs it is pretty unavoidable.

Actually, it is VERY avoidable at lower TL's. "Tainted" in Trav means that one needs special equip to breathe. Earth never got that bad.

Nutty stuff like this is why most people I know rewrote the world gen rules 30 years ago.

 

[aramis]

TL G isn't the "true" TL of Darrian.

Does swapping it with TL13, Darrian's "true" TL base, make a big difference?

yes, it would drop it considerably - 16 is base KCr24, while 13 is base KCr18

 

[Carlobrand]

I like this sort of data mining for fleshing out worlds. Consider Efate, for example: 8 billion population, population density 69 per square kilometer of open land (after factoring in the water), which makes it about on par with Indiana or Michigan and roughly 50% more densely populated than modern Terra - fairly settled, big cities and likely a lotta well-settled agricultural territory, populated enough to be pretty diverse, still some thinly settled regions. Thin, tainted atmosphere and a gravity about 3/4 G: folk in general are a bit weaker than your 1G humans, maybe a bit taller, likely adapted to that taint - and if they're not, there's potential for serious unhappiness among the poorer set. A rather high tech, wealthy industrial society under a self-perpetuating oligarchy, functionally lawless (presumably so long as you aren't stepping on the oligarchs' toes). And, by canon, a hotbed of clandestine anti-Imperial activity.

How do 8 billion people get by without any significant law? How does it remain stable? What forces take its place? How does business function? Is this a culture where the "armed society is a polite society" idea has been deeply woven into the culture? Do the oligarchs refrain from more restrictive government because, even with bodyguards and high-tech defenses, it is just too easy for the commoners to strike back?

 

[Selandia]

Rethe

Yep, interesting,

Since I ended up Count of the Spinward marches with my holding on Rethe I am fleshing that world, 11 (the minimum)to 26 billions (some other sources) on a very thin athmosphere desert world with E starport? Lot of fun but lot of work, too early to post an extensive write up.

Early Ideas:
Lots of mining and lots of manufacturing sweat shop (lot of poor peoples) to pay for the huge amount of imported organic raw material and food. Can't be rated officially industrial for lack of tainted athm (MTU will change that trade classif). Hydroponic on a desert world is always fun (remember Dune?). 50K bulk Carrier leaving with Ore (actually many of those) returning with water would do the trick given extreme recycling.

The E Starport is the "public" starport for free traders, all "regular" trade is conducted from private starport belonging to trading concern that do not want you to interfere with their trade and won't grant you landing autorisation. (adventure there)

Bioengineering Camel adapted to breath very thin athmos (still need to carry their bale of hay and water) as self manufacturing burden carrier (just to play with the beast maker) for "tribes" of outcast worker free lancing in deposit insufficient to justify large scale industrial investment and exploitation (good adventure stuff)

anyway, have fun

Selandia

 

[Carlobrand]

Yep, interesting,

Since I ended up Count of the Spinward marches with my holding on Rethe I am fleshing that world, 11 (the minimum)to 26 billions (some other sources) on a very thin athmosphere desert world with E starport? Lot of fun but lot of work, too early to post an extensive write up.

Early Ideas:
Lots of mining and lots of manufacturing sweat shop (lot of poor peoples) to pay for the huge amount of imported organic raw material and food. Can't be rated officially industrial for lack of tainted athm (MTU will change that trade classif). Hydroponic on a desert world is always fun (remember Dune?). 50K bulk Carrier leaving with Ore (actually many of those) returning with water would do the trick given extreme recycling.

The E Starport is the "public" starport for free traders, all "regular" trade is conducted from private starport belonging to trading concern that do not want you to interfere with their trade and won't grant you landing autorisation. (adventure there)

Bioengineering Camel adapted to breath very thin athmos (still need to carry their bale of hay and water) as self manufacturing burden carrier (just to play with the beast maker) for "tribes" of outcast worker free lancing in deposit insufficient to justify large scale industrial investment and exploitation (good adventure stuff)

anyway, have fun

Selandia

Rethe: a small desert world about the size of Mars, with a very thin atmosphere rather like the lower reaches of the Himalayas, 1/4 G surface gravity, population 30 billion by the Spinward Marches Campaign, ruled by a charismatic dictator (you devil, you!:devil. Population density's a startling 935 per square kilometer, about three times the population density of Japan. Tech level's roughly on a par with the modern U.S. Weapons are mostly prohibited, and the government's rather intrusive - not too surprising given the need to provide water for all those people on a desert world. Water's probably very tightly regulated, likely forms the real basis for economic power.

Nasty little dystopia, in my view: they ration your water, there ain't no flush toilets (you'll need to think up some functional alternative that can move away the solid wastes of 30 billion people without risking enteric diseases), and there ain't no showers - except among the rich and powerful. The common folk are smelly and a wee bit dehydrated, there's an active black market in water scored from clandestine sources, and an ever present threat of disease from black market water. Tech level's a little low to regulate urine output on the scale of a 30-billion population, but maybe there are laws requiring you to urinate in urinals designed and intended to carry the flow away for recycling, or more likely everyone owns recycling equipment designed to capture usable water from their own urine, with the quality and efficiency of the equipment varying by level of wealth. Your miners are likely hoping to strike ice, not gold - and the government's likely to take a big cut of that, unless the miner sells to the underworld (which of course could lead to him being caught in some government sting and losing the entire claim, not to mention being sent to prison).

The population implies industry, the clean air does not: there's some industry, just not enough - the products of industry are more expensive, and fewer people have them. TL8, they don't have fusion*, the clean air despite the high pop implies the world may lack the fossil fuels to support a big industrial base. Power is likely mostly solar, maybe geothermal, and never enough of it.

Non-agricultural: food is imported. Locally produced food is the product of tech, and the tech ain't that great. It's likely that what industry there is, is dominated by technological food production. The common folk aren't just stinky and thirsty - they're thin and on the hungry side. Best not spending too much time thinking about what their diet must be like - soylent green would probably be a godsend to them. Fortunately, gravity's very low - less energy needed to get around and do day-to-day activities. However, the average person's pretty pathetically weak and skinny. And short - that diet doesn't make for tall children.

You're right, there's not much there that can justify that kind of population other than mining and sweat-shop labor - their only assets are people and the planet itself. And, as you suggest, the exports are likely going out through private spaceports; there's not much wealth here to support a varied interstellar trade. It's likely the companies are using the freighers that ship out the ores to ship in water and food and then using that to pay workers - or perhaps to pay the government, which takes its cut and then doles out what's left to the workers. The commoner's weekly wage is measured in calories of wheat or corn or something and in liters of water, and he's very grateful for the simple fare he can make with that, 'cause otherwise it's the local "food".

However, with that kind of population density, your folk are digging in like a bunch of termites. With limited industry and a high pop density, converting your used up mines into living space seems a better strategy than building upward.

Given the circumstances: mining, low-G world, very thin atmosphere, you might do better with a genetically modified donkey, something with camel traits added. The donkey's a better fit for mining by a physically small people; donkeys are smaller, hardier, surefooted and already proven in mining work. However, feeding any animal's going to be a difficult trick on a world that can't grow its own food. Your miner's ideal packbeast might just be himself and his wife - she can eat the same things he eats, and she can swing a pick just as well as he, something a camel or donkey can't manage.

Are you sure you want estates on this dystopia? Y'know, if you're not the despot ruler, he's likely to resent having a powerful person around who isn't under his thumb. You're going to be dealing with a lot of political intrigue, him trying to infiltrate spies among your retainers, trying to find clandestine and plausibly-deniable ways to bring you down or bring you under his control.

*Oop, CT says they have fusion. Strike that. TL9 fusion's a Megatrav thing. My bad.

 

[rancke]

Here are my notes on Rethe:

Canonical facts:

Rethe is settled between 300 and 400 and is a member of the Imperium by 400 [TA:15]

In 1105 Rethe has a population of 26 billion, the highest in the Regina Subsector. [TB:150]

Once every (local?) year is Festival on Rethe. For the six days it lasts the law level is temporarily set to zero. [TP:13]

A luxury liner named Lady Armada is lost in the outskirts of the Rethe system some time before 1116. It is found and explored by an scientific expedition 'less than a decade' before 1116. [C29:28]


Semi-canonical facts:

*2408 Rethe (Imperial)*

About a generation ago, Rethe's population experienced a 'baby boom' and began growing explosively. The growth spurt is tapering off now, but in the last 30 years the population has grown by almost seven billion. The citizens have been struggling to cope with the population increase, building more orbital habitats and other needed infrastructure, putting a tremendous strain on all space activities. At one point visiting starships could not expect to get any service at all, at least not in a timely manner. Things are improving now and the starport will soon be reclassified to Class III and eventually back to its original Class IV status. [JTAS Online, Worlds within Jump-6 of Regina]


Non-canonical:

Rethe is settled in 337 by a group of Solomani of Indian descent from Xxxx.

The Gadama, a small group belonging to a distinct sub-group of Humaniti, immigrated from Zzzz to Rethe in 686.

Rethe itself serves mainly as a source of raw materials and as a gravity anchor for orbital habitats where most of the population lives.

Rethe Prime is a huge orbital station that houses the starport and governmental offices.

Rethe L2 Habitat is mainly inhabited by a culturally distinct group of Vilani extraction.


1105: E230AA8-8/?
1110: E230AA8-8/3

Population tables:

1000: 8,800,000,000
1095: 24,000,000,000 (Baby boom begins)
1105: 26,400,000,000 1.01% p.a. from 1090 to
1110: 30,000,000,000 [!?] 1.026% p.a. from 1105 to 1110
1120: 31,882,000,000 1.006 % p.a.


Ethnic composition of names
---------------------------

01-70: Indian
71-78: Gadama
79-90: Solomani (other than Indian)
91-96: Vilani
97-99: Minor human (other than Gadama)
00: Minor non-human


The non-canonical bits are mine. As usual, anyone who wants to is welcome to use any of them for their own legitimate Traveller purposes, up to and including paid work.

 

[Carlobrand]

...Over half the Imperial population is on just 6.
Louzy 1604 D322A88-8 _ Im
Trin 3235 A894A96-F A Im
Mora 3124 AA99AC7-F A Im
Fornice 3025 A354A87-C _ Im
Porozlo 2715 A867A74-B _ Im
Rethe 2408 E230AA8-8 _ Im
Junidy 3202 B434ABD-9 W Im

Strouden, Efate, and lunion push it to 60% of the Impies on 9 worlds.

Louzy: 10 billion, civil service bureaucracy, high law, (no weapons except daggers, open possession prohibited)
Trin: 10 billion, impersonal bureaucracy, moderate law (no firearms except shotguns, open carry discouraged)
Mora: 10 billion, charismatic oligarchy, moderate law (no firearms)
Fornice: 20 billion, civil service bureaucracy, moderate law (no firearms)
Porozlo: 20 billion, balkanized, moderate law (light assault weapons prohibited, other firearms available)
Rethe: 30 billion, charismatic dictator, high law, (no weapons except daggers, open possession prohibited)
Junidy: 30 billion, Noncharismatic leader, extreme law, (weapons entirely illegal)

Most of those are accustomed to living under restrictive nonrepresentative governments and have no experience of firearms. In the Marches overall, 63% of the population lives at law level 7 or higher.

Interestingly, this is likely to play a role in career selection. A citizen of Efate, accustomed to making his own rules, is likely to be drawn to the Scouts. A malcontent from Junidy might find the Marines appealing - the authoritarian structure familiar, and a chance to be on the other side of the gunbarrel.

 

[Selandia]

More on Rethe

@ Carlobrand
Thanks, very usefull ideas, too much stuff to comment on lunch hour, will be back on it this week end

@ Ranke
Can use the your non canonical early history,

I may consider the space habitat for the rich and famous, for it is likely not prohibitively expensive when compared with a domed terra prime habitat on a desert world to start with. However, people are overall poor and a stagerring 1.5 billions in Orbitals (I am working with that figure) would be huge yet still leave 28.5 billion on the dust (that is the problem I have been appointed to solve:devil:, replacing the useless dilettante previously holding the job).

So I will downplay the orbital bit that would offer a too easy hightech solution. That would simply make it too much akind to an Asteroid belt adventure ground. A lot of peoples are living a troglodyte life in the mining gallery that Corps transform in workers' habitat as soon as the ore is out (logical, very cheap housing for the space comes free as a byproduct of mining) Carlobrand came to the same conclusion btw. The idea struck me from adventure 4 Leviathan. (don't you dread canibalism in such conditions?)

general comment

The food and water problems are real, systemic solutions are fun to figure as TU maker, but not so much fun as adventuring theme if you just proclaim TL9 recycling is good enough for thecho magic to solve your problems (it won't by the way and I am not accusing anybody of suggesting that).▮ I was pestered that ST Next G became a show where you simply waited for somebody to proclaim that the Tacheon beam had been gizmoed and the problem was over.

Canibalism, Slave and children selling, anything debased just to eat one more day, a world so bleak that the dreaded Low Berth survival rate of CT would not deter some to flee that world, a rulling elite hiding in space habitat, sheltered by vacuum from the hell their greed created. Those that care are overwhelmed by the seemingly impossibly task of solving the problem. Nice space habitat... sure where is the money? Taxing the business out of business? With what money will we support the new poors? Do we throw money into police work that can't solve the problem anyway or do we just let the jungle regulate itself down there? What is best to bring the workforce at the factory doors every morning: corrupt Trade Unions or Slaver Gangs? Well you know the drill, it is on the news...

Any reform will entail counter reform corporate plots so adventurer could work counter plots. Will adventurer probe an anti-coporate alliance with organized crime (although corporation might be called organised crime at time)? The basic security problems could be endless source of adventure, even before considering specific social or macro economic reform ( like the end of private spaceport or trade cartel) related plots...endless delight.

have fun (don't live on Rethe unless you are rich)

Selandia

 

[Selandia]

Afternoon break on Rethe

Rethe: a small desert world about the size of Mars, with a very thin atmosphere rather like the lower reaches of the Himalayas, 1/4 G surface gravity, population 30 billion by the Spinward Marches Campaign, ruled by a charismatic dictator (you devil, you!:devil. Population density's a startling 935 per square kilometer, about three times the population density of Japan. Tech level's roughly on a par with the modern U.S. Weapons are mostly prohibited, and the government's rather intrusive - not too surprising given the need to provide water for all those people on a desert world. Water's probably very tightly regulated, likely forms the real basis for economic power.

I buy, As the new Ruler I will institute (hey I have to be charismatic) The New Water Rule: Water cannot be sold at more than cost. Start the murder attempts against me and popular riot against my would be murderer backers.

Nasty little dystopia, in my view: they ration your water, there ain't no flush toilets (you'll need to think up some functional alternative that can move away the solid wastes of 30 billion people without risking enteric diseases), and there ain't no showers - except among the rich and powerful. The common folk are smelly and a wee bit dehydrated, there's an active black market in water scored from clandestine sources, and an ever present threat of disease from black market water. Tech level's a little low to regulate urine output on the scale of a 30-billion population, but maybe there are laws requiring you to urinate in urinals designed and intended to carry the flow away for recycling, or more likely everyone owns recycling equipment designed to capture usable water from their own urine, with the quality and efficiency of the equipment varying by level of wealth. Your miners are likely hoping to strike ice, not gold - and the government's likely to take a big cut of that, unless the miner sells to the underworld (which of course could lead to him being caught in some government sting and losing the entire claim, not to mention being sent to prison).

Urine reg is of the essence of survival, that is a "High Focus Technology" (like wartime airplane dev) and works even if QREBS is not great ( experimental). Those that control water import (and relevant power) fight individual recycling apparatus and are as much part of the problem as recycling tech.
Waste: Human Manure is used in a) whatever hydroponic works there are on Rethe or b)sold to agricultural neighbooring world or c) used to attempt to create organic topsoil in some segment of the desert (believe it or not it was an argument against Badalget making the London sewers, failing to recover manure for agricultural purpose)

The population implies industry, the clean air does not: there's some industry, just not enough - the products of industry are more expensive, and fewer people have them. TL8, they don't have fusion*, the clean air despite the high pop implies the world may lack the fossil fuels to support a big industrial base. Power is likely mostly solar, maybe geothermal, and never enough of it.

disagree
Unlike heavy industry, Sweat shop industry is not a big air poluter by itself (save the sweat smell). Its energy requirement have created polution because crudely used coal (the cheapest energy of the early industrial period) have been the source of much of its energy. The lack of fossil fuel on Rethe would have driven power utility to fission if/when fusion was not available. And they have uranium galore. Energy is the thing they do not lack. Beside Misery and Despair I need at least one other thing with unrestricted supply to work with: energy.

Non-agricultural: food is imported. Locally produced food is the product of tech, and the tech ain't that great. It's likely that what industry there is, is dominated by technological food production. The common folk aren't just stinky and thirsty - they're thin and on the hungry side. Best not spending too much time thinking about what their diet must be like - soylent green would probably be a godsend to them. Fortunately, gravity's very low - less energy needed to get around and do day-to-day activities. However, the average person's pretty pathetically weak and skinny. And short - that diet doesn't make for tall children.

Amen, A real Dumarest world, Sci-Fi Dickens, that is why they will love me

You're right, there's not much there that can justify that kind of population other than mining and sweat-shop labor - their only assets are people and the planet itself. And, as you suggest, the exports are likely going out through private spaceports; there's not much wealth here to support a varied interstellar trade. It's likely the companies are using the freighers that ship out the ores to ship in water and food and then using that to pay workers - or perhaps to pay the government, which takes its cut and then doles out what's left to the workers. The commoner's weekly wage is measured in calories of wheat or corn or something and in liters of water, and he's very grateful for the simple fare he can make with that, 'cause otherwise it's the local "food".

Good description of "The company town and Company store" syndrom.:devil:
One of my Key project is upgrading the public spaceport to allow freer trade.
Wait until I prohibit company money, no sane adventurer will accept the job of Count's bodyguard, but I'll die a Folks Hero

However, with that kind of population density, your folk are digging in like a bunch of termites. With limited industry and a high pop density, converting your used up mines into living space seems a better strategy than building upward.

Yes

Given the circumstances: mining, low-G world, very thin atmosphere, you might do better with a genetically modified donkey, something with camel traits added. The donkey's a better fit for mining by a physically small people; donkeys are smaller, hardier, surefooted and already proven in mining work. However, feeding any animal's going to be a difficult trick on a world that can't grow its own food. Your miner's ideal packbeast might just be himself and his wife - she can eat the same things he eats, and she can swing a pick just as well as he, something a camel or donkey can't manage.

Played with beast maker yesterday, the pocket camel I worked out is quite like a donkey or a pony, the idea struck me. The water storage genetic of the Camel is better, jury is out, I would go for a large chested Pony with a pot belly water reserve. With its loving eyes the Pony would make for at least one frendly looking thing on that shitpit of a hellhole of a world. The underfed, underweight, over pissed off wife might swing a pick indeed (at him) and will carry a lot less than a beast of burden. In some case, no doubt, you are right: the wife and children are the proper beasts of burden (Dickens goes to Space)

Are you sure you want estates on this dystopia? Y'know, if you're not the despot ruler, he's likely to resent having a powerful person around who isn't under his thumb. You're going to be dealing with a lot of political intrigue, him trying to infiltrate spies among your retainers, trying to find clandestine and plausibly-deniable ways to bring you down or bring you under his control.

NO I almost cried when I saw my Count Card with Rethe as a Holding, I wanted to sell that farm and go back to my home world Exmin. Sure I was exiled from it and flourished in the Marches. But when I saw Rethe, I longed for Exmin sweet Exmin. Then I figured I may as well raise to the chalenge, and play it as I am the new ruler: after all the Emperor himself wrote "Rule it well" on the front page of my copy of the "Imperial Regulation and Order". It would be a drag to play it as a Rajah collecting slum rents and mining rights while wasting time in an orbital palace trying to duck trouble. Lets be a charismatic dictator and make trouble!

have fun

Selandia

 

[rancke]

@ Rancke
Can use the your non canonical early history,

Feel free.

I may consider the space habitat for the rich and famous, for it is likely not prohibitively expensive when compared with a domed terra prime habitat on a desert world to start with. However, people are overall poor and a stagerring 1.5 billions in Orbitals (I am working with that figure) would be huge yet still leave 28.5 billion on the dust (that is the problem I have been appointed to solve:devil:, replacing the useless dilettante previously holding the job).

Suit yourself. I put most of the population into orbital habitats because they're know to be economically feasible (otherwise there wouldn't be any populated asteroid belts) and to explain how a system with the trade 26 billion people would generate has a starport with an E rating.

The habitats for the first 20 billion would have been build slowly over several centuries.


Hans

 

[Selandia]

The habitats for the first 20 billion would have been build slowly over several centuries.

Indeed your orbital habitats do make sense to explain the figures. The issue MTU have with that is a big socio-economic IF. IF the corporations are not greedy. I think the Corporate HQ stuffed the workers in the cheapest housing availlable: the nearly free mines' gallery (just need to plug the entry with an airlock and run in the utilities). Failure to do that would result in share holders complaining abour quarterly earning and throwing out the board. Initially, the gallery may have been well fitted, as well as any space habitat to attract workers. Then centuries and dark souls did their work and the current mayhem settled.

Thanks for the suggestions anyway they are appreciated, I might get a couple of billion more in Orbitals using cheap planetoid habitat.

Selandia

 

[rancke]

Indeed your orbital habitats do make sense to explain the figures. The issue MTU have with that is a big socio-economic IF. IF the corporations are not greedy.

What corporations?


Hans