Speculative Traders

[Andrew Boulton]

Convincing in what way? Name three past or present vehicles/ships/etc that are internally or externally asymetrical, except where necessary.

(I don't mind a small amount, BTW, I just prefer a reason for it).

 

[savage]

Falkayn,

10- Ferrari, 10 - Spilled Wine

However, a few thoughts...
-I'd say that passenger viewports are a necessity for any freight/passenger vessel. Or perhaps a View Dome in the common area. Passenger comfort is critical to their needs and return visits.
-I'd say the gunners' staterooms wouldn't require viewports if turret access is available.

Savage

 

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
Convincing in what way? Name three past or present vehicles/ships/etc that are internally or externally asymetrical, except where necessary.

(I don't mind a small amount, BTW, I just prefer a reason for it).

I guess what I mean is that tiny, assymetrical details make a design seem more convincing in the sense that they aren't quite perfect.

Crow

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I think we agree about tiny details, we just need to agree on a definition of tiny

 

[RainOfSteel]

My apologies (<cough, cough>), I'm only picking this thread up here at the end.


Falkayn,

Why do the words "Jump Drive" appear on the pinnace's drives? Is it jump capable?


Otherwise, it's a fantastic deckplan!


Sincerely,

Chris O.

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
Why do the words "Jump Drive" appear on the pinnace's drives? Is it jump capable?

Otherwise, it's a fantastic deckplan!

Chris, kind words, thanks!

To everyone, that is NOT a Jump Drive. The moron get of a Gashikan half-breed that produced the deckplan labels has been taken outside and shot. The maneuver drive on the custom pinnace is of course a fantastically efficient 3-G design, but it will not "take you light years into the future" as spurious distributor's marketing information has spouted forth, to be believed by gullible pups in charge of simple labelling exercises!

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
Convincing in what way? Name three past or present vehicles/ships/etc that are internally or externally asymetrical, except where necessary.

(I don't mind a small amount, BTW, I just prefer a reason for it).

Well, asymmetry always needs a reason ... whether it is called for in this case depends upon how good a reason you want

.

How are these reasons?

1. Having a larger, single cargo bay makes for more efficient cargo handling and re-distribution when required;

2. Aligning the starboard bulkhead of the pinnace hangar with the fuel tanks means you have one less bulkhead to create; and

3. It is considered unwise to breakup engineering spaces with other, unrelated items. For one, most ships do not carry enough engineers to have one in every such space created, and for another it creates issues when trying to jury-rig connectsions between similar pieces of equipment in a crisis.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

Regarding asymetrical designs.
Actually I really would like to see more such designs, especially if its an unstreamlined configuration anyway.

Falkayn asked for reasons for asymetry.
As an engineer I would ask for the reasons to be symetrical

...
The main reasons for things that fly around to be streamlined is aerodymanic behaviour and second mechanical stability. But even here high TL might provide striking alternatives (considering that I really have to weaken my "wing" and "bridge" comments.)

Leaving symetrie behind would allow to concentrate mainly on purpose of the construction.
Thats just like real life industrial plant construction, where you can forget most "design" issues...
Maybe those designs might look more "weird" as the mainstream Traveller stuff we know so far ?

Regards,

Mert

 

[daibaka]

I would really like to see an exterior version of Falkayn's ship, as of the last deckplan. A landed view would, IMHO, be best so that I can see how the cargo bay works with that underslung cockpit blister. What is that there for anyway? To improve visibility on landing or some other reason? Any of the forum artists care to give it a go?

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by daibaka:
I would really like to see an exterior version of Falkayn's ship, as of the last deckplan. A landed view would, IMHO, be best so that I can see how the cargo bay works with that underslung cockpit blister. What is that there for anyway? To improve visibility on landing or some other reason? Any of the forum artists care to give it a go?

I'd love to see artwork too.

The blister is the mining laser turret, I figured it might as well be close the front for easy access to whatever it finds.

With the blister there it prevents you loading cargo in horizontally through the doors, but that's why the ramp slope begins within the air-lock area.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

I guess, that Crow will come along with a sophisticated CG, but anyway I tortured my 3D program and it spit out a "first try" (of course using Crows fabulous hints on texturing).
Angus already gave me some hints regarding shape corrections and I will add some more details over time

Well, I'm just an engineer and not an artist....

Regards,

Mert

 

[Scarecrow]

I like it!

I would get rid of that middle planet. It's not necessary and it's making the ship hard to read. Also drop your fill light on the left side of the image right down to add some contrast and increase the definition of the ship's shape. Also maybe make it a blue-grey and make your mian light very very slightly yellowy - sort of white with a hint of yellow.

I like the veiny bump map and the colours. It's a very distinctive visual feel.

Nice one,

Crow.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

Yes Masterrrrrr.
I (hope) I did what You suggested....
Heres the next one.

I am still very dissatisfied with those windows.
Guess I will have to use seperate color and illumination maps.
Perhaps this also could be done withthe help a negative displacement....

 

[Falkayn]

Mert,

I like where you're going with this ... I appreciate getting multiple angles on the ship, but the first shot seemed better from an aesthetic viewpoint.

The windows seem to be in too much of a straight line, they should bend with the side of the ship (that may mean you need to create them in an arc on your bump map {is that what it is?

}).

I'd still like to see the Deck A portion above the fuel scoops have the same curve as the fuel scoops.

However, this is far nicer than anything I could dream up, and better than the thumbnail sketch on a napkin I originally worked off.

Good work Mr Engineer!

 

[Scarecrow]

Engineer,

Oops! When I said get rid of the 'fill-light', I meant whatever was casting light from the left side of the picture - not the red nav light - that looked fine (though it needed shrinking to about an eighth of it's size). Then I realised that you probably aren't using a fill light atall but you probably have ambient on. Never use ambient!!!!! it just makes things glow. Always use shadow-casting lights from a variety of directions.

What I usually do is have 8 lights from diametrically opposed directions. One will be the main light at 100% brightness and a slightly yellowy-white colour. I use a high-res shadow map with that one, that creates sharp-edged shadows - but not too sharp. I never use raytraced shadows - they're too perfect. All the other lights will be a blue/grey at about 20%-30% with very very low res shadow maps that are totally blurred. This creates a shadow-casting ambient light for the unlit sides of the ship. Now, the scientists on the forum will tell you that unless you have a secondary light source or a nearby major body (like a moon) reflecting the primary light source, there would be no ambient light in space - which is completley true - but would also completely obscure half your model into complete black and wouldn't look as nice. It's up to you.

I liked the composition of the first image, I just felt you needed to get rid of the middle planet. What's going on with that in the second image? It's sort of noisy and appears to have acquired smoke trails.

Out of interest, what modeller/renderer are you using and what size are your texture maps?

Crow

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi folks !

Angus, actually I am working hard

to make these windows better.
As You noted, I might have to split the windows texture in order to bend correctly.
Perhaps one window, one texture...

The fuel scoops issue is on its way, too. I will split the front faces in order to shift back the scoops.

Crow, thanks for all these hints. I will do what my humble computer allows me to do.
8 lights might increase the release circle

O.k., you got me. There is an ambient light source around, but its gonna be exchanged by a weak spotlight.
The second image is perhaps a bit scrambled by converting it with another graphics tool and removing the planet in the backdrop texture a bit uncleanly

I will do another mouse pushing session today in the evening (if my kids let me).

Well, I use Realsoft3D 4.5 for modelling/ rendering and IGrafix PicturePublisher/CC2 for all the texturing.

Best regards,

Mert

 

[Andrew Boulton]

An early, work-in-progress pic:

 

[Ran Targas]

^ Nice!

 

[Andrew Boulton]

More progress:

 

[Scarecrow]

Andrew, I love it!

The segmentation around the hull is a really nice idea. Can you model the 'head' into the shoulders to get rid of that sharp clipping line? Same with the engines and 'hump'.

Crow