CT Only: Spinward Flex Courier

[Spinward Flow]

The Far Trader finally crosses the finish line to end their part in the Race To Profitability at 0h 232-1105 … 33 weeks after starting.
Total net profit from 0h 001-1105 through 0h 232-1105: Cr 52,823,125

The Spinward Flex Courier finally crosses the finish line to end their part in the Race To Profitability at 0h 224-1105 … 32 weeks after starting.
Total net profit from 0h 001-1105 through 0h 224-1105: Cr 58,583,647

In terms of terms of "absolute profit amounts" during the Race To Profitability ... there can be no doubt that Team Spinward Flex Courier is the winner when all factors are considered (including speculative cargo). The margin of victory in absolute profit margin terms is Cr 5,760,522 in favor of Team Spinward Flex Courier.

If Team Far Trader had not fallen prey to the "discount pirates" in the Choleosti system, then Team Far Trader likely would have won the absolute profit margin victory with Cr 239,478 over their rivals ... which given how much revenue Team Far Trader was bringing in (and consuming in their costs of operating) is a remarkably paltry sum as a theoretical margin of victory after making 18 jumps to complete the run (239478/18=13,305 per jump, a miserably small margin of victory).



In terms of "rate of profit generation" during the Race To Profitability ... there can be no doubt that Team Spinward Flex Courier has also won this comparison when all factors are considered (including speculative cargo). Team Spinward Flex Courier was able to complete the route run in 224 days (5376 hours) ... earning profits at a rate of Cr 261,534 per day or Cr 10,897 per hour during the race.

By contrast, when all factors are considered (including speculative cargo and "discount pirates" ransom) ... Team Far Trader was able to complete the route in 232 days (5568 hours) ... earning profits at a rate of Cr 227,685 per day or Cr 9486 per hour during the race.

Advantage: Team Spinward Flex Courier ... by a margin of Cr 33,849 per day or Cr 1411 per hour during the race.



If taking the purchase and sale of speculative cargo out of the profit margin equation and measuring performance on purely non-speculative cargo revenue streams (passengers, cargo, x-mail), then assuming I haven't mucked up my math transcription somewhere (always a possiblity!), the more limited view of the race yields the following results.

Far Trader
Net Profit on Passengers and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 206,580 (50% share)

Spinward Flex Courier
Net Profit on X-Mail and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 262,072 (50% share)

Team Spinward Flex Courier still wins the Race To Profitability under subsidy for the merchant line ... with a Cr 55,492 overall absolute profit margin victory.

In terms of a rate of profitability per day/hour ... Team Spinward Flex Courier generated Cr 1169 per day or Cr 48 per hour in profit margin over 224 days (5376 hours) ... while Team Far Trader generated Cr 890 per day or Cr 37 per hour in profit margin over 232 days (5568 hours) ... when not including speculative cargo factors (mostly, it's an imperfect comparison).



All of these wins were made possible by the numerous factors that went into the Spinward Flex Courier's design that enable it to be extremely efficient at "small ball" mercantile opportunities and and market conditions, thanks to the reliability of X-Mail to generate revenue where there is otherwise none to be had, the reduced operational costs of life support, crew salaries (which costs less than the revenue generated from X-Mail deliveries, guaranteeing profits anywhere there is a population to deliver to) and the fuel "independence" offered by having an onboard fuel purification plant and an inflatable fuel bladder for the cargo bay. The synthesis and integration of all of these factors are what make the Spinward Flex Courier the safe to operate and therefore safe to rely upon rugged "little" starship that has been detailed in this thread.

So, I should hope it would come as no surprise to anyone who has been reading up until this point, that when the Accounting Department needs to decide which starship class to acquire to expand their merchant line with ... there's really no contest.



5G TL=11 Spinward X-Courier or a 6G TL=13 Spinward Flex Courier FOR THE WIN!
Buy whichever one you can support the annual overhaul maintenance needs of, depending on where you plan to go into business ... and then start hiring people to do the raking of the cash for you.

And as always, the secret of success in interstellar trade is in the speculative arbitrage of goods.

22nd Rule of Acquisition
A wise man can hear profit in the wind.

 

[Spinward Flow]

So ... something that I've been banging on about from time to time with the Spinward Flex Courier is the potential for external cargo hauling capacity, which seemingly rarely gets thought about all that much. However, as alluded to all the back at the beginning of this thread ... the capacity for it is built into the starship's design.

Spinward Flex Courier XF-1626621-030000-00002-0 MCr 109.8752 194 tons
batt bearing                      1         1                  TL=13.
batteries                         1         1                 Crew=2.
Passengers=0 (1 possible). Cargo=45. Fuel=50.5. EP=11.64. Agility=6. FPP.
Jump-1, Maneuver-5 with 0.1-41.5 tons external cargo added.
Jump-1, Maneuver-4 with 41.6-97 tons external cargo added.
Jump-0, Maneuver-4 with 97.1-105.8 tons external cargo added.
Jump-0, Maneuver-3 with 105.9-218.2 tons external cargo added.
Jump-0, Maneuver-2 with 218.3-465.6 tons external cargo added.
Jump-0, Maneuver-1 with 465.7-1455 tons external cargo added.

So then, if I were to take the actual results of the Race To Profitability and modify it (slightly) to permit the Spinward Flex Courier to transport external cargo outside the starship (major cargo only) through jump ... how would that change the race and its results?

Well ...
Alternative choices for cargo picks highlighted in bold

​	Bulk Cargo available (major, minor, incidental)​	Piracy Chance inbound/outbound​
D'Ganzio	7 Major (60, 30, 60, 50, 30, 60, 20 tons) 6 Minor (10, 25, 25, 15, 30, 10 tons)	None
Lanth	7 Major (20, 10, 30, 40, 10, 10, 60 tons) (Saurus) 7 Minor (15, 10, 15, 5, 15, 20, 20 tons) (Saurus) 13 Major (50, 50, 20, 20, 50, 30, 30, 40, 50, 50, 40, 60, 40 tons) (Tavonni) 12 Minor (20, 30, 25, 10, 10, 10, 20, 30, 5, 30, 15, 5 tons) (Tavonni)	None
Tavonni	No cargo	2D6 = 11 Patrol Cruiser 2D6 = 12 Mercenary Cruiser
Saurus	5 Minor (30, 15, 5, 20, 10 ton lots)	2D6 = 9 Scout/Courier
Vilis	14 Minor (15, 30, 20, 20, 20, 10, 20, 15, 5, 25, 30, 10, 10, 15 tons) 6 Incidental (2, 4, 5, 1, 6, 4 tons)	None
Margesi	No cargo	2D6 = 10 Patrol Cruiser
Choleosti	No cargo	2D6 = 10 Patrol Cruiser
Garda-Vilis	13 Major (60, 60, 40, 10, 40, 20, 60, 40, 30, 10, 60, 40, 20 tons) 11 Minor (20, 15, 20, 15, 30, 30, 10, 15, 20, 15, 5 tons) 9 Incidental (4, 3, 6, 2, 4, 1, 5, 5, 6 tons)	None
Arkadia	8 Major (30, 10, 30, 50, 30, 40, 50, 40 tons) 8 Minor (20, 20, 30, 10, 15, 20, 15, 15 tons)	2D6 = 11 Patrol Cruiser 2D6 = 12 Mercenary Cruiser
Ficant	5 Major (10, 20, 40, 60, 10 tons) 1 Minor (30 ton)	2D6 = 11 Patrol Cruiser 2D6 = 12 Mercenary Cruiser
Arkadia	4 Major (40, 10, 60, 30 tons) 8 Minor (30, 30, 20, 20, 5, 15, 25, 25 tons)	2D6 = 11 Patrol Cruiser 2D6 = 12 Mercenary Cruiser
Garda-Vilis	5 Major (60, 30, 60, 40, 60 tons) 7 Minor (5, 5, 30, 30, 20, 30, 20 tons)	None
Choleosti	1 Minor (20 tons)	2D6 = 10 Patrol Cruiser
Margesi	5 Major (40, 20, 60, 40, 60 tons) 5 Minor (30, 20, 15, 30, 30 tons)	2D6 = 10 Patrol Cruiser
Vilis	10 Major (10, 10, 20, 50, 30, 20, 50, 40, 50, 50 ton lots) 11 Minor (30, 10, 10, 20, 15, 10, 5, 10, 15, 25, 25 tons) 7 Incidental (5, 2, 4, 4, 3, 6, 2 tons)	None
Saurus	No cargo (Lanth) 5 Major (20, 50, 60, 30, 10 tons) (Tavonni) 9 Minor (25, 20, 20, 25, 25, 15, 10, 25, 15 tons) (Tavonni)	2D6 = 9 Scout/Courier
Tavonni	No cargo	2D6 = 11 Patrol Cruiser 2D6 = 12 Mercenary Cruiser
Lanth	No cargo	None
D'Ganzio	No cargo ... annual overhaul maintenance	None
Totals	87 Major, 97 Minor, 13 Incidental	86.96% chance per run

When transporting 90 tons of external (major) cargo, 15 tons of extra fuel needs to be transported internally using the Inflatable Fuel Bladder in order to complete the 2 Jump-1 necessary to reach a destination 2 parsecs away, reducing remaining internal cargo capacity (for minor and incidental cargoes) to only 25 tons. Also, external cargo exceeding 40 tons her cargo lot cannot be transported from orbit to a planetary surface safely through atmosphere codes: 2+, but can be safely transported through atmosphere codes: 0-1. Orbit to orbit shipments of major cargo can be up to 60 tons per lot without restrictions.

When transporting 70 tons of external (major) cargo, 10 tons of extra fuel needs to be transported internally using the Inflatable Fuel Bladder in order to complete the 2 Jump-1 necessary to reach a destination 2 parsecs away, reducing the remaining internal cargo capacity (for minor and incidental cargoes) to only 30 tons.

When transporting 40 tons of external (major) cargo, 5 tons of extra fuel needs to be transported internally using the Inflatable Fuel Bladder in order to complete the 2 Jump-1 necessary to reach a destination 2 parsecs away, reducing the remaining internal cargo capacity (for minor and incidental cargoes) to only 35 tons.

Gross revenues	Bulk Cargo Internal External​	Bulk Cargo (revenue) Spinward Flex Courier	Speculative Cargo (buy, transport cost)	Speculative Cargo (sell)
D'Ganzio	25 60+30	Cr 25,000 Cr 90,000	None	None
Lanth	25 20+30+40	Cr 25,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 90,000	None	None
Tavonni	0 0	Cr 0 Cr 0	None	None
Saurus	40 0	Cr 40,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	None	None
Vilis	15+25 0	Cr 40,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	Cr 4,375,000 (Cybernetic Parts) Cr 25,000 (25 tons)	None
Margesi	0 0	Cr 0 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	None	Cr 22,500,000 (Cybernetic Parts)
Choleosti	0 0	Cr 0 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	None	None
Garda-Vilis	30+2+8 40+20+30	Cr 40,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 90,000	Cr 120,000 (Ammunition) Cr 8,000 (8 tons)	None
Arkadia	15+8 30+30+30	Cr 23,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 90,000	Cr 8000 (8 tons)	None
Ficant	30 10+20+40	Cr 30,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 70,000	None	Cr 312,000 (Ammunition)
Arkadia	20+20 40+10+30	Cr 40,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 80,000	None	None
Garda-Vilis	5+5+30 30+40	Cr 40,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 70,000	Cr 5,400,000 (Computer Parts) Cr 30,000 (30 tons)	None
Choleosti	20 0	Cr 20,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	Far Trader lost Cr 6,000,000 to pirate ransom	Cr 6,750,000 (Computer Parts)
Margesi	20+5 40+20	Cr 25,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 60,000	Cr 14,000,000 (Model/1bis) Cr 5000 (5 tons)	None
Vilis	0+30 30+40	Cr 30,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 70,000	Cr 8,400,000 (Vacc Suits) Cr 30,000 (30 tons)	Cr 14,400,000 (Model/1bis)
Saurus	20+8 20+30+10	Cr 28,000 + Cr 25,000 Cr 60,000	Cr 32,400,000 (Model/2) Cr 8000 (8 tons)	Cr 36,000,000 (Vacc Suits)
Tavonni	0 0	Cr 0 Cr 0	None	None
Lanth	0 0	Cr 0 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	None	Cr 43,200,000 (Model/2)
D'Ganzio	0 0	Cr 0 + Cr 25,000 Cr 0	None	None
Totals	406 tons 770 tons	Cr 806,000 Cr 770,000	Cr 64,809,000 Spinward Flex	Cr 123,162,000

 

[Spinward Flow]

So the increase in revenue when transporting external cargo is a change from Cr 896,000 gross cargo revenue (all internal) to Cr 1,576,000 gross cargo revenue (internal and external major cargo) ... which is a gross profit increase of Cr 680,000 (at 100% share) or Cr 340,000 (at 50% share), which is quite a tidy sum.

However, all of those external cargo shipments would limit the Spinward Flex Courier to Jump-1 while acting as a jump tug for external cargo hauling. Assuming a time delay of 9 days (175 hours maximum in jumpspace plus 16 hour routine maintenance plus additional hours to shuttle orbit to surface for marshalling and lower acceleration to/from jump points) per 2 Jump-1 over the 1 Jump-2 profile, we can see that with external cargo loading the Spinward Flex Courier would have taken 90 extra days to complete the Race to Profitability, ending at 0h 314-1105 instead of 0h 224-1105. This slower finish would have then required an additional 6 rounds of 2 weeks of crew salaries payments at an additional cost of Cr 21,000 with all else being equal.

Net total profit increase over the baseline would then have been Cr 319,000 for the entire run.
Total net profit from 0h 001-1105 through 0h 314-1105 (with external cargo): Cr 58,902,647

In terms of "rate of profit generation" during the Race To Profitability ... with external cargo factored in ... Team Spinward Flex Courier would have completed the route run in 314 days (7536 hours) ... earning profits at a rate of Cr 187,558 per day or Cr 7816 per hour during the race.

By contrast, when all factors are considered (including speculative cargo and "discount pirates" ransom) ... Team Far Trader was able to complete the route in 232 days (5568 hours) ... earning profits at a rate of Cr 227,685 per day or Cr 9486 per hour during the race.

So, slowed down by the "burden" of external cargo during the race, the Spinward Flex Courier would still have earned more total profit (absolute value) of teh course of the entire run, but because of the reduced tempo of deliveries (due to the 2 Jump-1 limitations) would have been generating a less profits per hour (rate of return value) than the Far Trader did when including all factors (such as speculative cargo).



If removing speculative cargo from the spreadsheet analysis, we get a slightly different answer.

Far Trader
Net Profit on Passengers and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr Cr 206,580 (50% share)

Spinward Flex Courier
Net Profit on X-Mail and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 581,072 (50% share)

Team Spinward Flex Courier still wins the Race To Profitability under subsidy for the merchant line ... with a Cr 374,492 overall absolute profit margin victory.

In terms of a rate of profitability per day/hour ... Team Spinward Flex Courier generated Cr 1192 per day or Cr 49 per hour in profit margin over 314 days (7536 hours) with external cargo factors ... while Team Far Trader generated Cr 890 per day or Cr 37 per hour in profit margin over 232 days (5568 hours) ... when not including speculative cargo factors (mostly, it's an imperfect comparison).



What this means is that external (major) cargo transport can be utilized to increase profit margins above and beyond what they would otherwise be on internal cargo only (obviously). However, the slowdown in tempo of deliveries carries its own penalties in terms of profit generation over time. So while there may be a slight uptick in total profits and profitability rates per day/hour in terms of simple bulk cargo shipments, that slower tempo in arrivals at ports of call will somewhat severely damage the rates of return on speculative cargo arbitrage due to the slowdown in tempo.

So the bottom line advice is ... when needing to jump 2 parsecs, configure the Spinward Flex Courier for internal cargo transport only ... but when needing to jump only 1 parsec (on a "main" somewhere), by all means load up on as much external cargo as you can manage to safely transport (up to 40 tons per major cargo lot for surface to surface, or up to 60 tons per major cargo lot for orbit to orbit) while ALSO carrying up to 40 tons of major/minor/incidental/speculative cargo internally as well. Point being that the additional load external to the starship will slow down the tempo of your deliveries by mere hours (if needing to shuttle the external load orbit to surface in multiple trips) rather than by 1 week (or more, depending on jump timing of 150-175 hours plus 16 hours of routine drive maintenance after each jump).

175+16=191
192 hours is 8 days of 24 hours



So for a "bean counter" in the Accounting Department of a merchant line, perhaps the best way to think of how a Spinward Flex Courier can "work" operationally is to think of it "mostly" (mostly) as being this sort of ... weird hybrid ... between Free and Far Trader that ditches passenger service entirely (so as to not need a Medic or a Steward onboard) while being mandatory armed when delivered from the shipyard (Free and Far Traders are both optionally armed as aftermarket modifications).

Free Trader (unarmed) gross revenue/overhead costs with full manifest of passengers and cargo:
Cr 162,000 (6 high, 20 low, 82 tons cargo) / Cr 29,600 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net profit: Cr 132,400 per Jump-1 (100% share private) or Cr 51,400 per Jump-1 (50% share subsidy)

Far Trader (unarmed) gross revenue/overhead costs with full manifest of passengers and cargo:
Cr 135,000 (7 high, 4 low, 61 tons cargo) / Cr 27,450 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net profit: Cr 107,550 per Jump-1 or Jump-2 (100% share private) or Cr 40,050 per Jump-1 or Jump-2 (50% share subsidy)

Spinward Flex Courier (armed) gross revenue/overhead costs with full manifest of x-mail and cargo:
Cr 65,000 (up to 5 tons of x-mail, 40 tons of internal cargo) / Cr 7600 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net profit: Cr 57,400 per Jump-2 (100% share private) or Cr 24,900 per Jump-2 (50% share subsidy)

Cr 155,000 (up to 5 tons of x-mail, 40 tons of internal cargo, 90 tons external major cargo) / Cr 7600 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net profit: Cr 147,400 per Jump-1 (100% share private) or Cr 69,900 per Jump-1 (50% share subsidy)

And THAT performance right there ... not even including any additional expenses (like needing to buy starport fuel) is why the external cargo capacity of a Spinward Flex Courier is such a (merchant prince) "game changer" in capability to generate revenue relative to the stock and standard Free Trader and Far Trader starships in service with so many merchant lines ... because when Jump-1 performance is all that is needed the external cargo capacity allows the Spinward Flex Courier to exceed the revenue generation potential of even a Free Trader operating with a full shipping manifest. When Jump-2 performance is required, the Spinward Flex Courier falls short of the Far Trader's revenue generation potential until factoring in fuel costs (particularly refined fuel purchase costs at type A and B starports) which are at least Cr 10,000 for 20 tons of refined fuel for a Jump-1 or Cr 20,000 for 40 tons of refined fuel for a Jump-2 to the next destination ... at which point the Spinward Flex Courier can give the Far Trader a "run for their money" on profit potentials.

Note that the above isn't even counting the fact that the Spinward Flex Courier can (with no internal or external cargo) perform a 2 Jump-2 maneuver in order to get across 4 parsecs to reach new market opportunities when necessary ... something that neither the Free Trader nor the Far Trader can do in their default "stock" configurations (although the Far Trader could also do it with an installed inflatable fuel bladder as an aftermarket modification).

Throw in speculative cargo opportunities for arbitrage and a (slightly) faster turn around time of making transits to from surface to orbit to 100 diameters for the jump point at 6G (saving hours here and hours there, not to mention wilderness refueling options and cost savings!), plus NOT being helpless in the face of a pirate attack (which WILL happen occasionally when visiting type C, D, E or X starports) and ... it all adds up over the useful lifespan of the starship.

Sure, you can buy 3 Free Traders for the price of 1 Spinward Flex Courier ... but after 40 years you are far more likely to still have that 1 Spinward Flex Courier in your possession ... while the 3 Free Traders are unlikely to make it to 40 years of service without having misjumped multiple times (perhaps as many as 10 times in 40 years?) and having survived (hopefully) repeated pirate attacks, assuming the Free Traders aren't limited to systems with type A or B starports only on well patrolled routes along a Jump-1 main somewhere.

In other words ... if you're planning to visit the "less than developed markets" of worlds on the sector maps ... you really want to be buying and flying either a 5G TL=11 Spinward X-Courier or a 6G TL=13 Spinward Flex Courier for your "merchant prince" needs out on the provincial fringes of charted space.
You're welcome.

 

[Spinward Flow]

It also occurs to me that it would be nice to know the comparison of profit margins between Free Trader, Far Trader and Spinward Flex Courier when dealing with an empty manifiest (passengers and cargo, none) situation, albeit one in which x-mail deliveries to populations are still relevant.

Free Trader (unarmed) gross revenue/overhead costs with an empty manifest of no passengers and no cargo:
Cr 0 (0 high, 0 middle, 0 low, 0 tons cargo) / Cr 15,600 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net loss: Cr 15,600 per Jump-1 (100% share private or 50% share subsidy)

Far Trader (unarmed) gross revenue/overhead costs with an empty manifest of no passengers and no cargo:
Cr 0 (0 high, 0 middle, 0 low, 0 tons cargo) / Cr 13,050 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net loss: Cr 13,050 per Jump-1 or Jump-2 (100% share private or 50% share subsidy)

Spinward Flex Courier (armed) gross revenue/overhead costs with (up to 5 tons of) x-mail but no cargo:
Cr 25,000 (up to 5 tons of x-mail, 0 tons cargo) / Cr 7600 (life support, crew salaries, berthing fees)

• Net profit: Cr 17,400 per Jump-1 or Jump-2 (100% share private) or Cr 4,900 per Jump-1 or Jump-2 (50% share subsidy)

Even under conditions of a totally empty manifest (no passengers, no cargo, no x-mail) ... the Spinward Flex Courier suffers smaller profit losses than either the Free Trader or the Far Trader competition when there is no cargo (or passengers) available to transport. But so long as there are population centers to deliver x-mail to, a Spinward Flex Courier is "efficient enough" to continue earning a profit just on x-mail alone if it has to. This means that so long as the population code is 1+ at a port of call (so as to make an x-mail delivery there), a Spinward Flex Courier can survive on meager profit margins while scouring the speculative cargo market(s) for those rare opportunities that can yield megacredits from interstellar arbitrage ("It's good to be da Tramp (Freighter).").

And that's not including charter services (interplanetary and interstellar).
Think about it.

 

[willtron3030]

Does X-Mail require the ship to commit to a route, or can any tramp freighter crewed by unindicted murder-hobos secure 25kCr for a jump, as long as their ship has the necessary affordances installed?

 

[Fovean]

Far Trader
Revenue per run: Cr 1,589,000 (100% share) or Cr 794,500 (50% share)
Fuel costs per run: Cr 134,790 (loss)
Overhead costs per run: Cr 453,130 (loss)
Net Profit on Passengers and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 1,001,080 (100% share) or Cr 206,580 (50% share)

…

Spinward Flex Courier
Revenue per run: Cr 896,000 (100% share) or Cr 448,000 (50% share)
Fuel costs per run: Cr 42,750 (profit!)
Overhead costs per run: Cr 228,678 (loss)
Net Profit on X-Mail and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 710,072 (100% share) or Cr 262,072 (50% share)

I see the point that your SF Courier is more capable and profitable than a standard Far Trader but I’m having trouble grokking the quoted numbers.

For the FT after 50% cut I get Cr500,540?

For the SFC after 50% cut I get Cr355,036?

Can you point me to the area where this is explained as I’m a bit lost.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Does X-Mail require the ship to commit to a route, or can any tramp freighter crewed by unindicted murder-hobos secure 25kCr for a jump, as long as their ship has the necessary affordances installed?

Good question ... because what LBB2 has to say on the subject is (at best) ambiguous.
X-Mail is explicitly detailed as an option for a subsidized starship, requiring only that the ship be armed (so offensive weaponry), have a gunner and 5 tons dedicated to what amounts to a Mail Vault that cannot be used for other purposes (so dedicated tonnage).

But that brings up the question of ... if that can be done by a subsidized starship, why can't it also be done by a privately owned and operated starship? Kind of like how a national postal service is a public mail delivery system, while a private company such as FedUps is also in the mail/package delivery service as a private company (which could be publicly traded through stock markets and the like). Point being, there isn't anything particularly "special" about being subsidized that "enables" mail delivery while "preventing" the option for any non-subsidized private operators.

In other words, I personally can find no good faith arguments why courier services MUST BE public/subsidized ONLY and can't be done as a by a private merchant line (the mail gets carried in starships being the common denominator). The x-mail itself doesn't care HOW it travels to its destination(s) ... it merely cares that it DOES keep moving towards its destination(s) until delivery to the appropriate world in the appropriate star system (at which point "local" delivery systems take over).

Beyond that, I can only refer you to the X-Mail entry on the Traveller wiki which contains the following:

X-mail, Xmail, or Express Mail is a term for interstellar mail carried in-between the stars (...and their associated mainworlds) by various kinds of mercantile starcraft.

• It is normally transported by X-boats although subsidized merchants, tramp freighters, couriers, and many other kinds of vessels may take mail contracts.
• It is often exchanged via Postal Unions and Free Trade Zones.
• It is a kind of cargo often carried in Mail Vaults or secure Staterooms.

So basically it comes down to being contracted to carry x-mail.
A starship subsidy is one way to receive that contract ... but another way could be to contract with a variety of Postal Unions as a private courier service trusted to carry x-mail.

So the key requirement to be eligible to carry x-mail isn't the subsidy ... it's the TRUST from the Postal Unions in the security of your starship (armed, gunner, mail vault are all required) and award your merchant line with a contract to carry x-mail. A subsidy from a government is merely ONE way to obtain the necessary permissions to do that ... but it's not the ONLY way it can be done. Such things can be negotiated by private entities (and merchant lines, although larger lines will have more resources to negotiate such contracts).

This is why I named the starship class the Spinward Flex Courier ... because it's at its heart a (secure) courier ship that can perform courier plus cargo duties (safely, at a reasonable cost) either in publicly subsidized ownership, or in privately held ownership. The only difference between the two options is ... who is paying the bills for the ownership of the starship, and who is assuming the risk(s) for operating it? A subsidized starship is a public/private partnership, while a privately owned and operated starship is also a viable alternative.

In other words ... it's perfectly possible to put a Mail Vault on a nobleman's Yacht and arm the Yacht and put a Gunner on payroll ... and now that nobleman's Yacht can help defray some of its operational expenses by carrying x-mail along with the noble (and their guests/entourage).

A subsidy "greases the skids" on getting necessary contract approvals (the government does that for you) ... but it can also be done privately too.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I see the point that your SF Courier is more capable and profitable than a standard Far Trader but I’m having trouble grokking the quoted numbers.

For the FT after 50% cut I get Cr500,540?
For the SFC after 50% cut I get Cr355,036?

Can you point me to the area where this is explained as I’m a bit lost.

Sure thing!

Far Trader
Revenue per run: Cr 1,589,000 (100% share) or Cr 794,500 (50% share)
Fuel costs per run: Cr 134,790 (loss)
Overhead costs per run: Cr 453,130 (loss)
Net Profit on Passengers and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 1,001,080 (100% share) or Cr 206,580 (50% share)

Spinward Flex Courier
Revenue per run: Cr 896,000 (100% share) or Cr 448,000 (50% share)
Fuel costs per run: Cr 42,750 (profit!)
Overhead costs per run: Cr 228,678 (loss)
Net Profit on X-Mail and Bulk Cargo only (not including speculative cargo): Cr 710,072 (100% share) or Cr 262,072 (50% share)

Ah yes, there's the problem, I forgot to account for the 50% subsidy rake on the sale of the refined fuel at D'Ganzio (50% of gross receipts!). Silly me.



Far Trader (100%)
+1589000 (revenue) -134790 (fuel) -453130 (overhead) = 1,001,080

Far Trader (50%)
+794500 (revenue) -134790 (fuel) -453130 (overhead) = 206,580



Spinward Flex Courier
Revenue per run: Cr 896,000 (100% share) or Cr 448,000 (50% share)
Fuel costs per run: Cr 42,550 (profit at 100% share) or Cr 20,175 (profit at 50% share)

Spinward Flex Courier (100%)
+896000 (revenue) +42550 (fuel) -228678 (overhead) = 709,872

Spinward Flex Courier (50%)
+448000 (revenue) +20175 (fuel) -228678 (overhead) = 239,497



So still ahead of the Far Trader ... just not by as much while under subsidy.
Advantage: Team Spinward Flex Courier by only Cr 32,917 under subsidy, instead of the previously calculated amount.

The Spinward Flex Courier sold 89.5 tons of refined fuel at D'Ganzio (Cr 44,750 @ 100% or Cr 22,375 @ 50% revenue gain) but also bought 2 tons of unrefined fuel at D'Ganzio to start the race (Cr 200 loss) and also 20 tons of unrefined fuel at Choleosti before the pirate attack (Cr 2000 loss) so as to avoid needing to skim the heavily contaminated gas giant atmosphere there which could have possibly damaged the TL=13 fuel purification plant (per the Traveller wiki page for the system).

 

[willtron3030]

It does, thanks.

Good question ... because what LBB2 has to say on the subject is (at best) ambiguous.
X-Mail is explicitly detailed as an option for a subsidized starship, requiring only that the ship be armed (so offensive weaponry), have a gunner and 5 tons dedicated to what amounts to a Mail Vault that cannot be used for other purposes (so dedicated tonnage).

But that brings up the question of ... if that can be done by a subsidized starship, why can't it also be done by a privately owned and operated starship? Kind of like how a national postal service is a public mail delivery system, while a private company such as FedUps is also in the mail/package delivery service as a private company (which could be publicly traded through stock markets and the like). Point being, there isn't anything particularly "special" about being subsidized that "enables" mail delivery while "preventing" the option for any non-subsidized private operators.

In other words, I personally can find no good faith arguments why courier services MUST BE public/subsidized ONLY and can't be done as a by a private merchant line (the mail gets carried in starships being the common denominator). The x-mail itself doesn't care HOW it travels to its destination(s) ... it merely cares that it DOES keep moving towards its destination(s) until delivery to the appropriate world in the appropriate star system (at which point "local" delivery systems take over).

Beyond that, I can only refer you to the X-Mail entry on the Traveller wiki which contains the following:


So basically it comes down to being contracted to carry x-mail.
A starship subsidy is one way to receive that contract ... but another way could be to contract with a variety of Postal Unions as a private courier service trusted to carry x-mail.

So the key requirement to be eligible to carry x-mail isn't the subsidy ... it's the TRUST from the Postal Unions in the security of your starship (armed, gunner, mail vault are all required) and award your merchant line with a contract to carry x-mail. A subsidy from a government is merely ONE way to obtain the necessary permissions to do that ... but it's not the ONLY way it can be done. Such things can be negotiated by private entities (and merchant lines, although larger lines will have more resources to negotiate such contracts).

This is why I named the starship class the Spinward Flex Courier ... because it's at its heart a (secure) courier ship that can perform courier plus cargo duties (safely, at a reasonable cost) either in publicly subsidized ownership, or in privately held ownership. The only difference between the two options is ... who is paying the bills for the ownership of the starship, and who is assuming the risk(s) for operating it? A subsidized starship is a public/private partnership, while a privately owned and operated starship is also a viable alternative.

In other words ... it's perfectly possible to put a Mail Vault on a nobleman's Yacht and arm the Yacht and put a Gunner on payroll ... and now that nobleman's Yacht can help defray some of its operational expenses by carrying x-mail along with the noble (and their guests/entourage).

A subsidy "greases the skids" on getting necessary contract approvals (the government does that for you) ... but it can also be done privately too.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Something about starship crew requirements has been nagging at me for a rather long time ... but it's only after "playing" through this Race To Profitability that a really good sense of what that concern is fully crystalized for me. It's also something that I touched on in my Jump-6 Express Boat Network Ships thread.

Manning a starship is a 24/7 type of operation ... not a 9 to 5 kind of job (8 hours a day) or even a 8 to 6 job (10 hours a day).
Worse, the "demand" for crew hours isn't something that aligns all that well with what landlubbers (like us forum posters) would consider to be circadian day/night cycle rhythms.

Sure, there's plenty of kick back and relax downtime involved during Jump Weeks ... when there's next to nothing for the crew to actively "do" onboard with respect to the starship (the weapons don't need to be manned, there's no navigation or maneuvering to pay attention to) since while the starship is in jump everything is substantially automated and running on what amounts to a "dead reckoning" course to breakout from jump controlled by the computer(s) aboard. Oh sure, there's routine maintenance of living spaces needed and some monitoring of the drives and systems, but so long as the starship is well maintained (1 annual overhaul maintenance every 52 weeks or less) and undamaged (pirate attacks) it's all pretty low level menial "chores" that need to be done occasionally while in jump.

But then when the starship returns to normal space ... everything gets hectic and there is a heavy loading of attention demands placed upon the crew. Maneuvering to and from the jump point requires a posted "watch" on the bridge so as to have a manned response if conditions and circumstances change (and so the crew can respond). This phase can last for hours. On top of that you have 16 hours of routine drive maintenance to complete after every breakout from jump, which is a really long shift to pull all in one go (especially if you're the only one skilled enough to do the job in a 2 person crew). This is why I usually had the 16 hour routine drive maintenance take place over 2 days (so 2 shifts of 8 hours each on separate days), pausing the maintenance routine midway through (roughly) while the starship was berthed at a starport. However, at Tavonni and Choleosti, there were situations where the captain decided to prioritize that routine drive maintenance so as to "not waste time" on planet/moon and simply get on with completing the run.

From a manpower utilization perspective, this would occasionally result in really long days of nearly continuous shift work from crew members that easily exceeded 8-12 hours of continuous work. For starships with small crews (1 per department), this can easily mean that continuous manning by sophonts that require rest and breaks (sleep, food, visits to the fresher) can become a luxury unless your crew are robots (who only need recharging/refueling to keep working continuously). Just the simple workload demands for long stretches of time can create fatigue and burnout in sophonts who desire a more "balanced" daily routine ... simply because the workload demands and timing are NOT "regular" onboard a starship.

I mean, sure, you may get a week of basically downtime while in jump, but then after breakout you might need to pull the equivalent of an "all nighter" 24 hour (or more) shift in order to maneuver to planetfall, scoop ocean water for fuel and purify it while simultaneously performing 16 hours of routine drive maintenance while the starship is (more or less) "parked" on the surface (of the ocean) before buttoning up again and launching back into space to head for the jump point and get back into jump transit to the next system.

In other words, the hours the crew needs to put in manning the starship can get ... lumpy/bumpy ... for small crews to deal with.

This was a factor I (kinda sorta) ran into in my Jump-6 Express Boat Network Ships thread where I realized that having 1 communications officer for the Tender manning their station 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, was simply on its face impractical from a manpower utilization perspective. Sure, "the rules" might permit it to be done ... but I can't imagine anyone aside from autistic introverts wanting to continue doing that job of being an Express Tender Communications Specialist under those working conditions.

For starters, the Tenders have no "advance warning" type of system letting them know when a XBoat is going to breakout from jump and start almost immediately broadcasting to the nearest Tender to their breakout point. The operations model doesn't have TIME for a "communications specialist report to the bridge" wake up call to be sent and then needing to WAIT for that crewman to get out of bed, get dressed (fresher visit optional) and then navigate the corridors and lifts to reach the bridge, assume their station, "unlock" their access to everything ... and THEN be ready for the XBoat that just arrived in-system to begin their data transmissions. Everything we know about the XBoat Network tells us that this is NOT how the Network operates. Instead, the XBoat network operates on as fast of a tempo as it can manage (with some relays through the Tender being completed in less than 10 minutes!) ... which means that continuous manning of various systems and services is NOT optional, with the communications station being first and foremost among those which need to be continuously manned AT ALL TIMES due to the "shape" of the operational model's demands for services. When there's no advanced warning for when a service may be needed "suddenly" at a moment's notice, the only way to deal with that kind of a workload demand is to operate in rotating shifts, such as a 3 shift rotation of 8 hours continuous per 24 hour day (for example, there are other options of course).

I then ran into the same sort of consideration for the Armored Gigs that I included in the Jump-6 Express Boat Network Ships thread, which were intended to provide roaming "picket patrol" defense around the J6 Tenders plus J6 XBoats and also provide "maneuver tug" services to the J6 XBoats themselves so as to reduce rendezvous for pickup and deployment times. As soon as I revised the service of rendezvous maneuvering from being a Tender only service to instead being a Tender+Small Craft service, that same demand for continuously having at least 1 Armored Gig "on station" outside the J6 Tender, with another 1 Armored Gig "on standby reserve" ready to launch if needed aboard the J6 Tender, plus another 1 Armored Gig "down for maintenance and crew rest" became the inescapably obvious model for how the small craft would need to support and interface with the Tender's standard operations. So even though technically speaking having a single Armored Gig would be "enough" from a rules lawyer standpoint, looking at it from a daily operations/crew manpower needed standpoint the single Armored Gig "minimalist" option didn't make a whole lot of sense to me in terms of workload and maintainability of both crew and small craft providing that "picket patrol" service. Without the opportunities of refueling, rest and maintenance while also sustaining continuous manning of the Armored Gig services, crews would burn out and the engineering of the Armored Gigs would wear out faster from continuous use with no routine maintenance from the Engineering Department aboard the Tender.



Which is all a long winded way of saying that as I was running this Race To Profitability, I kept trying to find opportunities to allow the crews of each ship to get adequate rest periods outside of being in jump. However, there were still occasions where crews needed to put in LONG hours of continuous work that typically would happen in bursts, and I can easily imagine that although being in jump is a lot like being on R&R with few demands on your time (except for the medics and stewards when there are passengers to deal/put up with) ... while the starships are in normal space and not berthed in a starport the work demands and the long hours that it requires could be potentially quite exhausting for starships with small crews. So long as those demands for long hours are RARE, I suppose it's okay ... but this whole exercise impressed upon me (once again) that the life of a Traveller working aboard a merchant starship, especially on one with a small crew (like the Spinward Flex Courier with its crew of TWO!), can at times be really demanding ... and those times don't occur at regular intervals, so there's no "routine" of circadian rhythms you can fall into so as to handle them as a matter of (daily) routine. Being able to get plenty of "sack time" before a breakout helps I suppose, but since the exact timing of a breakout isn't known to the crew ahead of time, with a 150-175 hour window per jump that's a variance +/- 12 hours tolerance, making it hard to synchronize internal body clocks with the exact timing of a breakout from jump.

TL;DR ... starship crews on small ships WORK HARD for their salaries ... ... harder than I think a lot of us forum posters realize.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Same issue here from the "24 Hours: not a play-by-post-thread" thread.

The ship has a 3-person Engineering crew, which does allow 3-shift coverage unless one or more of the engineers is planetside (whoopsie!) It's been easy enough to cover bridge watch duties since (for mostly-unrelated narrative purposes) there are multiple Pilot-qualified personnel. CT just assumes comms proficiency (or subsumes it into other ship skills such as pilot, navigation, and/or computer). Later rules sets establish it as a separate skill. Either way, just having comms isn't the whole picture -- you need someone responsible (due to rank or position) available to respond to surprises.

The Navigator crew position (and the fact it's not required on small ships) might be a roundabout way to provide for additional shift coverage on the Bridge. I'm not sure that the game writers thought of it in those terms, though.

Ships that don't require a dedicated Engineer crew position (<200Td) must either have automated maintenance capabilities, or simply tolerate the lack of maintenance. Are they better built, or is the risk of missing a potential problem acceptable when it only affects a few people at most?

 

[whartung]

At the same time, you really need little more than a "fire watch". Space is big, really big (so I've been told), so if you have any kind of proximity sensor, you can like know reasonably well in advance (at least 1hr) if something is closing on your ship. To the point it can be done just via proximity alerts to wake the crew up, or, at a minimum, you can have a junior person who's entire job is to stay away, wait for a red light to blink and alarm to sound, and then know who to wake up first.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The Navigator crew position (and the fact it's not required on small ships) might be a roundabout way to provide for additional shift coverage on the Bridge. I'm not sure that the game writers thought of it in those terms, though.

One of the curious "forgotten facts" about the Navigation skill (and Navigator crew position) is that according the the skill description in LBB2.81, it's Navigator skill that gets used not only for interstellar astrogation but also orbital mechanics course trajectories in interplanetary space as well as being the necessary skill for reading long range sensors.

I agree with you that requiring a Navigator as a crew position independent of the Pilot (ala Chekov and Sulu at the navigation and helm stations on the bridge) could be used as a kind of backdoor way to achieving greater shift coverage for ships with smaller crews, with either the pilot or the navigator standing watch while the other is off the bridge (but can respond if called to the bridge).

Personally I'm of the opinion that every starship capable of Jump-1 or more ought to mandate a Navigator position as part of the crew, regardless of starship tonnage (unlike what LBB2 has to say on the subject).

Ships that don't require a dedicated Engineer crew position (<200Td) must either have automated maintenance capabilities, or simply tolerate the lack of maintenance. Are they better built, or is the risk of missing a potential problem acceptable when it only affects a few people at most?

It's kind of an artifact of the rules.
Perhaps a more fulsome way of thinking about it (which is necessarily more complicated, of course) in LBB2 styled crew requirements context would be like so:

• Under 200 tons of hull (so hull size code: 0-1) the number of Engineers required is 1 per 35 tons of drives rounded down ... so if you have 35-69.9 tons of drives you need 1 engineer, not 2 ... and if you have 0-34.9 tons of drives you need 0 engineers, not 1.
• At 200+ tons of hull (so hull size code: 2+) the number of Engineers required is 1 per 35 tons of drives rounded up ... so if you have 35.1-70 tons of drives you need 2 engineers, not 1 ... and if you have 0.1-35 tons of drives you need 1 engineer, not 0.

I suspect that the original LBB2 rule was written the way it was simply to make it so Scout/Couriers needed no Engineers on their crew (15 tons of drives, so 15/35=0.428 engineers needed) along with the realization that it would be almost impossible to fit drives exceeding 35 tons into a 100 ton hull using LBB2 (either version). Putting CCC drives (jump-6, maneuver-6, power plant-6) into a 100 ton hull adds up to 35 tons of drives in LBB2.81 (20 tons jump, 5 tons maneuver, 10 tons power plant) ... so the 1 Engineer per 35 tons of drives requirement starts looking pretty silly for 100 ton hulls in LBB2. With 20 tons for bridge, 7 tons for computer model/6 (jump-6, remember?) and 4 tons for a single stateroom for a crew of 1, you're looking at having only 34 tons remaining for fuel in a 100 ton hull ... which obviously isn't enough for the power plant nor jump drive requirements under LBB2, so ... again ... there's just no way to make it all "fit" inside a 100 ton hull.



Note that if such a round down/round up style of rules extension were to be incorporated for Engineering crew requirement ... and the rules also mandated that every starship capable of at least Jump-1 required a Navigator crewman ... a Spinward Flex Courier would still be able to get away with a crew of only 2 ... Pilot/Navigator and Engineer/Gunner.

The skills the two crewmembers would require a minimum of ... Pilot-2 and Navigator-2 (Pilot/Navigator) ... Engineering-2 and Gunnery-2 (Engineer/Gunner) ... so as to account for the -1 to each skill level when assigned 2 crew roles system in LBB2.

Crew salaries in that case would be calculated on the basis of the actual crew skills involved (2, not 1), so +10% on each for being above skill-1 on each skill, added together and then 75% for each role to account for the "dual postings" of each crewmember.

Pilot-1 = Cr 6000 per month
Navigator-1 = Cr 5000 per month
Engineering-1 = Cr 4000 per month
Gunnery-1 = Cr 1000 per month

Pilot-2 = Cr 6600 per month
Navigator-2 = Cr 5500 per month
Engineering-2 = Cr 4400 per month
Gunnery-2 = Cr 1100 per month

Pilot-2/Navigator-2 = Cr 6600 + Cr 5500 = Cr 12,100 * 0.75 = Cr 9,075 per month
Engineering-2/Gunnery-2 = Cr 4400 + Cr 1100 = Cr 5500 * 0.75 = Cr 4125 per month
Total: Cr 13,200 per month or Cr 6600 per 2 weeks

For reference purposes ... Cr 6600 per 2 weeks for a Pilot-2/Navigator-2, Engineering-2/Gunnery-2 skilled crew of 2 is a Cr 3100 per 2 weeks increase over the default Pilot-1, Gunnery-1 skilled crew salary case used in the Race To Profitability demonstrated in this thread.
An additional Cr 3100 in crew salary costs every 2 weeks over 32 weeks would lower the Spinward Flex Courier's profit margin per run downwards by ... Cr 49,600.

Far Trader (100%): +1589000 (revenue) -134790 (fuel) -453130 (overhead) = 1,001,080
Far Trader (50%): +794500 (revenue) -134790 (fuel) -453130 (overhead) = 206,580
Spinward Flex Courier (100%): +896000 (revenue) +42550 (fuel) -228678 (overhead) = 709,872
Spinward Flex Courier (50%): +448000 (revenue) +20175 (fuel) -228678 (overhead) = 239,497

So still ahead of the Far Trader ... just not by as much while under subsidy.
Advantage: Team Spinward Flex Courier by only Cr 32,917 under subsidy, instead of the previously calculated amount.

The Far Trader used a crew of Pilot-1, Engineering-1, Steward-1/Medic-2 during the race.
6000 + 4000 + (3000+2200)*0.75 = Cr 13,900 per month or Cr 6950 per 2 weeks.
The Spinward Flex Courier used a crew of Pilot-1, Gunnery-1 during the race.
6000 + 1000 = Cr 7000 per month or Cr 3500 per 2 weeks.

If the crew requirements were changed according to the Navigator and Engineering station requirements I've outlined above for both starships, the Far Trader would need to add a Navigator crewman and the Spinward Flex Courier would need to add a Navigator and an Engineering crewman. So those changes to the rules of the race would look like this:

The Far Trader needs a crew of Pilot-2/Navigation-2, Engineering-1, Steward-1/Medic-2
(6600+5500)*0.75 + 4000 + (3000+2200)*0.75 = Cr 16,975 per month or Cr 8487.5 per 2 weeks.
The Spinward Flex Courier used a crew of Pilot-1, Gunnery-1
(6600+5500)*0.75 + (4400+1100)*0.75 = Cr 13,2000 per month or Cr 6600 per 2 weeks.

Differentials over previous crew salaries amounts would be Cr 3075 more per month (4 weeks) for the Far Trader, and Cr 6200 more per month (4 weeks) for the Spinward Flex Courier. This means that the crew salary advantage for the Spinward Flex Courier would shrink by Cr 3125 per month. The race lasted 32-33 weeks (8 months) so with the more stringent crew requirements proposed above, the Spinward Flex Courier's net profitability advantage under subsidy would be reduced by Cr 25,000 ... from the previously mentioned Cr 32,917 under subsidy down to a mere Cr 7917 advantage ... so quite competitive with the Far Trader when including all factors other than speculative cargo arbitrage (and pirate ransoms).

Hmmm ... perhaps I ought to mention this in the desired changes to CT thread ...

 

[Grav_Moped]

Personally I'm of the opinion that every starship capable of Jump-1 or more ought to mandate a Navigator position as part of the crew, regardless of starship tonnage (unlike what LBB2 has to say on the subject).

IMHO Navigation Skill should be required in small ships, but it doesn't have to be a crew position unless mandated. I wouldn't impose the skill penalty for wearing two hats in that situation.

I suspect that the original LBB2 rule was written the way it was simply to make it so Scout/Couriers needed no Engineers on their crew

Almost certainly. Also the Free Trader.

it would be almost impossible to fit drives exceeding 35 tons into a 100 ton hull using LBB2 (either version)

Pretty much. The only rules-as-written legal use for C drives in a 100Td hull is J-0/6G/Pn=6, and you have room for just one stateroom (for the pilot) and nothing else. If you go up to 199Td, C drives (rating=3) are plausible.

Wait. C Drives are what the canon Type R Subsidized Merchant uses. That provides the other reason for setting the break point at 35Td of drives: to force the Type R to have an Engineer! (Two of them if you upgrade it to D Drives for J2/2G/Pn=2, which fits in the standard hull's drive bay -- making it a logical upgrade path for PCs.)

If only that design didn't have oversized engines... (it only needs B Drives for J1/1G/Pn=1).

 

[Silverhawk]

So I'm a little late in posting this and for that I'm sorry. I was thinking about the collect a load of fuel to process and sell on arrival since there is time. I'm not saying that you can't after all its your TU. But why wouldn't a company work a contract to handle bulk transport of fuel. I started noodling around with a 400,000 dTn design that would allow you at TL13 to handle roughly 250,000 tons. On board processing and you can depending on the impurities work some profit in selling those for industrial use. Jupiter for example has helium and methane in its atmosphere.

Of course, that got me thinking about crew sizes only because at this point it is something on the or of 500 to 600 to run the thing. Mostly engineers for the drive room.

Just a thought.

 

[Spinward Flow]

So I'm a little late in posting this and for that I'm sorry.

You have nothing to apologize for.
Better late than never when it comes to participation in topics (although thread necro is a different issue).

I was thinking about the collect a load of fuel to process and sell on arrival since there is time. I'm not saying that you can't after all its your TU. But why wouldn't a company work a contract to handle bulk transport of fuel.

As I pointed out in the thread around reaching Lanth, it occurred to me that fuel transportation in the D'Ganzio system would be something of an imperative, since the mainworld (D'Ganzio itself) has no liquid water oceans to dip starship fuel from (either unrefined or refined) and so it's going to have to come from somewhere in the system in order to supply the Imperial Naval Base (their fuel needs aren't going to be zero!) and the IISS Express Network (less demand than the navy, but still above zero) and also any and all starship traffic making port at D'Ganzio itself (highport and/or downport).

At that point, the "terrain" of resources within the system essentially means that interplanetary tankers will be needed to transport fuel from the gas giant(s) to D'Ganzio in order to support the entire space based economy of the D'Ganzio system (kinda sorta).

Instead of intending breakout from jump ~100 diameters away from D'Ganzio like Team Far Trader is going to be doing ... Team Spinward Flex Courier is going to breakout from jump ~100 diameters away from the gas giant closest to D'Ganzio (a new roll for near vs far gas giant distance will be required, since the planets have moved in their orbits since the race began) where the starship will scoop fuel to fill their tanks to a full 50.5 tons of fuel, which will take only 1 hour to purify into refined fuel(!). The Spinward Flex Courier then accelerates at 6G to D'Ganzio for a few days and then when they dock, not only does the Spinward Flex Courier earn revenue for delivering x-mail but they are also able to sell some 45+ tons of refined fuel to the D'Ganzio starport at Cr 500 per ton to generate even more revenue upon arrival before their ship gets laid up for annual overhaul maintenance.

And before anyone complains about being able to earn credits from shuttling fuel from the gas giant to the D'Ganzio highport, consider the context of the D'Ganzio mainworld in the system.
B420410-D N Desert, Non-industrial, Poor G
6 Worlds, 2 Gas Giants, 1 Planetoid Belt

Basically, the mainworld doesn't have enough hydrographics to resource starship fuel from ... meaning the overwhelming supermajority of the fuel sold at the type B starport is going to have to be sourced from the two gas giants in the system using a "bucket brigade" of bulk fuel shuttles (very likely high tonnage non-starship boats) in order to supply the expected 1,000,000 tons of refined fuel production capacity per week that type B starports are supposed to provide.

So in that context, a starship docking at the D'Ganzio highport with refined fuel to sell to the starport would be (relatively speaking) a welcome development, since it would help the starport smooth out any time sensitive spikes in demand for fuel. Basically, the starport pays the fuel fee to a starship operator instead of to one of their own bulk fuel carrier shuttles for that fraction of fuel, because essentially the obtaining and refining of that starship fuel is an interplanetary "long range" operation, where it can take a week (or more) for a single fuel boat to make a round trip from the D'Ganzio highport to a gas giant and back. This means that in order to maintain an adequate (enough) supply of fuel through the starport, there must be HUNDREDS of fuel carrier boats making runs out to the gas giant(s) and back (whichever one is orbitally "closest" to D'Ganzio at any given time) with some kind of mercenary "convoy protection" contract in place to keep everything running smoothly. After all, an interplanetary logistical tail for a consumable resource like starship fuel that can't be obtained locally (at D'Ganzio itself) becomes something of an achilles' heel type situation for keeping the starport services economy afloat.

So ... when Team Spinward Flex Courier jumps from Lanth/Lanth to D'Ganzio/Lanth, they're going to be making a skimming run at one of the two in-system gas giants so as to bring a nearly full tank of refined fuel to D'Ganzio starport to sell before having their starship laid up for annual overhaul maintenance. That's a capability/capacity advantage that Team Far Trader simply cannot match (they would be hauling unrefined fuel, not refined fuel if they tried the same trick) due to a lack of a fuel purification plant and because their (relatively) anemic maneuver drive would make the Time=Money equation cost them more in time than they would gain in credits for that amount of time spent.

The point I'm wanting to make here is that D'Ganzio would make a good "system wide" training ground for fuel tanker squadron crews in the Imperial and Sector Navies since there is a demand for their services in the D'Ganzio system due to the arrangement of resources (mainworld hydrographic code: 0, 2 gas giants in-system). Fuel tanker squadron crews will basically always be needed at D'Ganzio to support space operations there, and having a naval base and an XBoat route essentially guarantees that there will ALWAYS be a demand for support of space operations no matter what. This then makes for an almost ideal circumstance for those fuel tanker squadron crews to accumulate flight hours and experience under relatively "safe" circumstances as part of the training assignment rotations (all branches) for those crews in navy service (imperial or sector) within the Spinward Marches. Likewise, the D'Ganzio system interplanetary routes would be patrolled by a mix of imperial and sector navy forces, since I doubt the trade volume of the mainworld economy (MCr 322 per year!) generates enough of a tax base to fund even maintenance of a single system defense boat on a permanent basis.

In other words, D'Ganzio is a "megacorp fiefdom" (government code: 1, law code: 0) of the Instellarms corporation, per the Traveller wiki page for the system, and as such lacks the population and resource economy necessary to be self(ishly)-sufficient as an independent star system ... so instead D'Ganzio is highly dependent on trade (interstellar, mainly) to bring goods and financing into the D'Ganzio system to "keep the party going" (as it were).

 

[Silverhawk]

You have nothing to apologize for.
Better late than never when it comes to participation in topics (although thread necro is a different issue).

As I pointed out in the thread around reaching Lanth, it occurred to me that fuel transportation in the D'Ganzio system would be something of an imperative, since the mainworld (D'Ganzio itself) has no liquid water oceans to dip starship fuel from (either unrefined or refined) and so it's going to have to come from somewhere in the system in order to supply the Imperial Naval Base (their fuel needs aren't going to be zero!) and the IISS Express Network (less demand than the navy, but still above zero) and also any and all starship traffic making port at D'Ganzio itself (highport and/or downport).

At that point, the "terrain" of resources within the system essentially means that interplanetary tankers will be needed to transport fuel from the gas giant(s) to D'Ganzio in order to support the entire space based economy of the D'Ganzio system (kinda sorta).

Right. I blanked on what I was doing and hit send before I had finished (again apologies, Have just been a little too busy). Would a company that has said fuel and processing contract make sure that it was exclusive. As you pointed out the main world is unable to provide. It could provide for an interesting side adventure but as I noted it is your TU so it is yours to do as you see fit. I just saw something that might provide a little spark for something out of the box.

And as I post this I realize I am possibly in violation of rule number one in my signature.

 

[Silverhawk]

Naturally, I forgot to say that if said contract is exclusive then other people offering fuel to the port are going to be out of luck for selling it to the port. You could try offering it for sale to other ships but there could be rules against that. Also does either party have the equipment to transfer from one ship to the other?

 

[Spinward Flow]

Naturally, I forgot to say that if said contract is exclusive then other people offering fuel to the port are going to be out of luck for selling it to the port. You could try offering it for sale to other ships but there could be rules against that. Also does either party have the equipment to transfer from one ship to the other?

Well, I was just basically simplifying things to help make bits and pieces "obvious" with relation to the Rules As Written (RAW) and when extrapolating from them to at least provide my rationale for it.

Realistically speaking, a starport wouldn't buy fuel at 100% of the price they would sell it at, making the transactions "financially transparent" (so to speak) ... but it was just the simplest way to handle the question, since the sell price of fuel is explicitly stated multiple times in CT, while the buying of fuel by a starport is never covered. Again, realistically speaking I would expect a starport to buy fuel from a ship at 40-90% of the sell price (Cr 100 per ton unrefined, Cr 500 per ton refined) depending on {vigorous handwaving} external economic factors that are just too much of a chore for a Referee to muck about with. But that was a complication I didn't really feel like dealing with ... so I skipped it via a 1:1 relationship on the buy/sell price of fuel at starports.

 

[Condottiere]

As much as the market will bear.

Adjusted by government taxes or subsidies, though it could be it's in the interest of the Imperium to keep it stabilized at a hundred starbux per tonne for unprocessed, and five hundred for processed.

Actual starting point being cost of production.