Starship Fuel tanks.

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
Can someone please tell me (did i realy need to put that in) if there is in canon any rule that says only one fuel tank for all jump fuel.
This rule would in my opinion be silly why have only one tank when if you get hit with a critical that hits the tank you are stuffed, but if you have multipul tanks you can still jump maybe.
YES multipul tanks will take up more room but not that much, and the peace of mind should combat the lost space.
Pre thankyou.
Bye.
sock

 

[mike wightman]

There are internal fuel tanks, internal collapsable tanks, internal demountable tanks, external demountable tanks, and external drop tanks (I'm sure I've missed one ).
I agree that it would be sensible to have multiple fuel tanks to absorb battle damage (and suggested in several ship deck plans), but then there is the High Guard damage table result "fuel tanks shattered" which effectively kills a ship (more effective than some critical hits, especially if you build in backup systems). I have always explained that one to irate players as the fuel feed to the power plant is destroyed.
As a house rule you could have several power plants and a seperate fuel tank/feed for each one.

 

[The Oz]

In Book 2 combat, a "Fuel" hit causes the loss of "about 10 tons" of fuel. When enough fuel is lost, you can't jump; when it's all gone, you can't maneuver.

In High Guard combat, a "Fuel-n" hit causes the loss of n% of all fuel (but at least 10 tons). The "Fuel Tanks Shattered" hit (note the plural, "Fuel Tanks") causes the loss of all fuel on the ship.

I have never interpreted TRAVELLER starships as having only one, big, undivided fuel tank. That would be poor design from any number of reasons (ship stability, safety, damage control, etc). From the damage rules, I'd say that Book 2 ships have their fuel tanks subdivided into as many separate 10-ton tanks as needed, while High Guard ships have their fuel subdivided into either 100 separate tanks, or into as many 10-ton tanks as needed, whichever gives the least number of tanks.

So a ship with 160 tons of fuel would have 16 fuel tanks each with 10 tons of fuel under either system.

A ship with 1600 tons of fuel would have 160 separate tanks, each with 10 tons of fuel, under Book 2 rules; while the same ship would have 100 separate tanks, each with 16 tons of fuel, under High Guard.

For most player-character starships, both systems work out the same: divide the fuel tanks into as many separate 10-ton tanks as needed. Each hit on "Fuel" opens one tank to space. I always did a random determination on just what tank had been hit, so that it was possible a hit could strike an empty tank, or a tank that had already been hit. Of course, it was also possible that random chance could cause the first "Fuel" hits to strike the only tank(s) holding the maneuver/powerplant fuel and leave the player's ship dead in space.

But I would never do that to my players intentionally....

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
Thank you one and all.
I have always assumed that the jump tanks and the power systems tanks where seperate so that a fuel hit damaged only one or the other tank (you needed a maneuver drive or power hit to hit the enginees or fuel systems for them).
Bye.

 

[Hecateus]

This brings up anothe question of mine...what happens to fuel after it is used to generate power? Assuming power is generated in a Fusion reactor, then fuel would be converted into a higher element...then what?

IMTU...only bc/I am too lazy to look in my book atm...The expended fuel is still stored and can be traded the element it is if it has any value, but mostly it is used by the gravity maneuover drive system to assist in propulsion and to bleed away excess heat...mostly generated by that same drive system. The hull surface and internal environmental control moves excess heat to the drives. Fuel pumps move expended fuel to the drives, where it is heated to plasma levels. It expended as needed as additional thrust...gives a reason for 'thrusters' to exist as shown in many pics. (obviously additional heat can be generated as needed for thrust, but this is uncommon)

Thus a way to stay cool for spaceships was finally made practical...no need for pesky vulnerable radiators.

 

[Tanuki]

Originally posted by Hecateus:
This brings up anothe question of mine...what happens to fuel after it is used to generate power? Assuming power is generated in a Fusion reactor, then fuel would be converted into a higher element...then what?

The amount of fuel actually converted in fusion reactions has got to be minuscule. Any really significant amount of fusion is going to turn the fusion plant and everything around it into a small star. IMHO most of that power plant fuel has GOT to be used purely for cooling -- just as most of the jump fuel is evidently used to form a jump bubble around a starship.

Eliminating waste heat by heating the "cooling" H2 to a plasma state before venting it works for me. Though it has a whole other set of implications trying to balance that necessary emmision with a desire for stealth.

 

[Hecateus]

I haven't been able to find any cannon information yet on what happens to expended fuel. But venting the plasma in directions sympathetic with the manoeuver drives would reduce the their workload. In terms of stealth, moving surface and internal heat to the drives would also keep the heat signiture controlable; so instead of a big warm looking ship seeable from all directions, only those with a good view of the ships aft sections(or wherever the gravity drive system is) would have enough heat to be noticable to most passing/searching ships.
Also, exposure to strong heat sources like sundiving, or battles involving nukes & continuous lasering, would be survivable.

 

[Uncle Bob]

The exhaust for a H2 (proton-proton) fusion is helium, which may be useful but is probably not worth keeping, considering that it can be mined from gas giants.

Besides, liquid helium is really squirelly and difficult to contain.

IMTU we use the old 'maneuver drive", so I assume the rocket exhausts seen on most Traveller art are radiators, I even assume some hydrogen is used to carry away waste he in an ion plume (more than is actually "burned" in the reactor).
Considering the miniscule mass involved (for a Scout under High Guard that is just under a gram/second) the effect on maneuver is trivial.

 

[MrMorden]

Originally posted by The Oz:
In Book 2 combat, a "Fuel" hit causes the loss of "about 10 tons" of fuel. When enough fuel is lost, you can't jump; when it's all gone, you can't maneuver.

My house rule is that a fuel hit vents off 10% of full fuel tankage. A critical fuel hit vents off all remaining fuel, leaving enough in the lines for 1D turns of operation. I assume that even if there is only one fuel space, it is self-sealing.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by MrMorden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by The Oz:
In Book 2 combat, a "Fuel" hit causes the loss of "about 10 tons" of fuel. When enough fuel is lost, you can't jump; when it's all gone, you can't maneuver.

My house rule is that a fuel hit vents off 10% of full fuel tankage. A critical fuel hit vents off all remaining fuel, leaving enough in the lines for 1D turns of operation. I assume that even if there is only one fuel space, it is self-sealing. </font>[/QUOTE]Not a bad way to go. Oh and welcome aboard MrMorden

I saw some of your first posts yesterday but managed to resist the temptation to jump all over them right away, wouldn't want to scare you off

Personally all things being equal, i.e. a weapon hit on a 100T Scout is the same as on a 100KT Battleship, I feel the flat 10T fuel loss per hit is reasonable. That and whatever sealing method is used is probably subject to the same loss before clamping down no matter the size of the fuel tankage.

I like your 1d6 turns idea too. My own handwave was the powerplant includes a battery backup good for emergency basics (minimal life support and lighting, minimal computer and electronics, etc.) of 1 hour per factor (using the reduced powerplant factor if damaged) once the fuel is gone.

 

[MrMorden]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MrMorden:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by The Oz:
In Book 2 combat, a "Fuel" hit causes the loss of "about 10 tons" of fuel. When enough fuel is lost, you can't jump; when it's all gone, you can't maneuver.

My house rule is that a fuel hit vents off 10% of full fuel tankage. A critical fuel hit vents off all remaining fuel, leaving enough in the lines for 1D turns of operation. I assume that even if there is only one fuel space, it is self-sealing. </font>[/QUOTE]Not a bad way to go. Oh and welcome aboard MrMorden

I saw some of your first posts yesterday but managed to resist the temptation to jump all over them right away, wouldn't want to scare you off

Personally all things being equal, i.e. a weapon hit on a 100T Scout is the same as on a 100KT Battleship, I feel the flat 10T fuel loss per hit is reasonable. That and whatever sealing method is used is probably subject to the same loss before clamping down no matter the size of the fuel tankage.

I like your 1d6 turns idea too. My own handwave was the powerplant includes a battery backup good for emergency basics (minimal life support and lighting, minimal computer and electronics, etc.) of 1 hour per factor (using the reduced powerplant factor if damaged) once the fuel is gone. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, jump away...I have a thick skin!

Thanks for the Welcome! I've actually been playing traveller sine 1981 (yes, I am that old!), but just got back into it in a big way.

The only reason I don't go a flat 10T for fuel hits is twofold:

1) I figure a hit that can get through a Tigress' armor is probably going to make a bigger hole than the single pulse laser hit to the Type-S;

2) I want a hit to *mean* something to the ship that got nailed...that Tigress is just going to laugh at a 10T loss.

I always figure there's battery enough to run life support and lights for 48-72 hours on top of that also. My games are more to the RPG side, so I tend to give my players a lot of rope before I actually hang 'em.