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Starship Scale in Campaigns

That depends on what do you call a patrol. Sure dreadnoughts are not used for antipiracy patrols (I agree that's quite an overkill), but they do patrol to show the flagg, and sure to remind the planetary fleets that can get too amibitious that they're there.

They can also patrol zones that are rumored to become hot (trade wars, planetary disputes, etc...), just to keep an eye on them and be able to react quickly, before it become a 'fait acompli'.

Yeah, but keep in mind, the argument so far has been that using things like Striker and TCS, that planetary systems could afford dreadnaughts of their own. So we wouldn't be talking necessarily about it being Imp dreadnaughts, these guys could be locals. But either way, that wasn't the point I was making here. The point was to illustrate the kind of questions I'd be asked... if there are dreadnaughts in system, regardless of who owns them, I'm fairly sure those questions would come up. So its nice to have thought out some answers in advance.

Of course, this becomes also a piracy deterrent. As someone told here, in our TL 7-8 earth piracy was all but erradicated while the cold war was on, just for the presence of large task forces arround the world, even if their mission was not antipiracy, but keep an eye to other power's affairs.
::raises hand:: that was me. ;)

Part of my early "theory" was that the Imp Navy would be stationed in major systems and would patrol along major trade routes as part of their routine maneuvers, training exercises, etc. In these areas I don't see piracy being a problem... at all.... zero... none.... nada. System patrols rarely even see a real smuggler, its more likely somebody with a small amount of minor contraband. More likely than that is the drunk freighter pilot, or the drunk rich kids out in daddy's yacht for a party.

But outside those major trade lanes are thousands of worlds that only occasionally see an Imp cruiser come through. Their security is their own problem. They see real smugglers, sometimes they see real pirates... and they still get the drunk freighter pilots and the rich brats too.

Then there are the border worlds. They see the Imp Navy ALL the time, they get to watch them pulling maneuvers, training exercises, using asteroids for target practice, fighters doing strafing and bombing runs on an airless moon. They set up sensor nets and listening posts, which is nice cause they usually pass on the heads up to your patrol. Pirates aren't much of a problem here either... not with that striker carrier group around. But smugglers are a routine problem, so are skirmishes between two pissed off ships over "spacelane rage"... and patrol gets the job of dealing with it.


I belive for custom duty and inspectios ship boats and pinaces are more lickely to be used, reserving SDBs as a reserve for if they're needed.

In our old Earth, those missions are usually done by small patrol boats that go nearly unarmed (at least as to naval gunnery). Thy use to have at most a pair of 0.50 cal MGs or small cannon, enought to scare, but not to sink, as they're mostly concerned with unarmored merchants.

Sure, if anything really theartened them, they whould get quick reinforcements (probably in form of air help or some PTM), but distances and response times for coast patrols on earth are quite small...

Depends on who you are going up against, how far out is back up, what kind of opposition might you expect, etc. DEA patrols off Miami in speed boats with no machine guns, but they do have a group of agents on board who are tasked with boarding and inspecting. Further out you have coast guard who carry specialized divers for doing hull inspections on large ship (looking for illegal cargo in sealed containers attached to the outside of the ship hull under water). US Coast Guard, (to my knowledge) doesn't carry US Marines, but they do have CG security details. Not on all boats, but depending on the mission and deployment, they do sometimes have them. US Navy patrolling foreign waters most definitely use security details and marines. However, keep in mind guys, what is a Traveller Marine... a soldier trained in boarding actions in SPACE. This isn't a job you want just anyone doing. If the boat you're boarding in a wet navy enviroment sinks, you can swim away... try that in space... oops.

So consider the environment. You're sent out on patrol. A pirate might be in anything from a converted armed Beowolf to a Corsair to a 800 dt Mercenary Cruiser. Your patrol base is on some nearby planet or space station. Nearby is a relative term, its 5 hours away. Most of your duty is routine radio challenges to incoming traffic. Sometimes you pull over some yacht doing reckless stunts... just rich kids, lucky brats. Sometimes you catch a smuggler... most of the time they don't put up a fight, they're out to make a few extra creds not get killed... but every once in awhile you get a "live" one. Sometimes its a drunk pilot, freighter pilots get bored too you guess. Then come those rare days when things get exciting... its an actual pirate in a 400 dt Corsair. Days like that you're glad you're in 400 ton boat with heavy armor and enough firepower to match them in a slugfest. Standard SOP is to take out their engines and guns, disable them, move in close, grapple, then let the marines board. You're glad the marines get that job... talking about a hostile evironment. Ships are generally depresserized, lights are out or intermittenent which makes things even more confusing, bulkhead doors might have to be blown with small specialized charges. You heard a marine talk about a rooky who used too much once in an interior corridor... the overpressure took out himself and his fire team... messy way to die. Your suit gets a hole in it, you got seconds to patch it, they drill at watching out for each other, patching each other, covering each other. Personally, you're glad you aren't a marine. They go in first, secure the place, finish off anyone dumb enough to still fight... then make arrests and medics take care of the injured (there are always injured). You hear some poorer systems use pinnances for patrols, some don't even have regular marine detachments for boarding... that's gotta suck. Five hours out from base with no back up in a pinance with no major weapons, little armor and no marines... not even a medbay... poor dumb bastards, guess they make do with what they got, but you hate it for them. Most days out here your enemy is boredom... hell, those drunk rich kids skimming the atmo of an outerplanet are almost a relief... something different to do. But then there are those days when the shooting starts and things get heavy. Days like that you appreciate what this boat can do.

Main point is this...
You are system patrol
Back up may be hours or even a day away, not minutes away.
Most days you will be bored out of your mind.
One day in a hundred you will have something exciting to do.
It is exciting when someone is shooting at you... you cannot be bored while being shot at. If you are, see the base shrink when we get back to port.
You are on your own out here.
You must be self sufficient.
You must be self reliant.
Get to know your fellow crew, they are now your family. They are the only back up you can count on out here.
Be nice to your ship medic, he or she is the only doctor you have for several hundred thousand kilometers. If you get shot, your life will be in the hands of your medic. If your medic gets shot, you are all screwed.
Keep your weapons in good working order. Going into combat with an unreliable weapon is like going into a port whorehouse with a cheap condom. You deserve what happens to you.
In space, there is no air except what you bring with you. If you lose that air, you are dead. Space is a very unforgiving environment. It is a hostile environment.
Do you get me? Yes Sir. I can't hear you. DO YOU GET ME? SIR, YES SIR! GOOD
You are system patrol. Good luck out there.


When piracy was a problem near US coast, didn't they carry a boarding party?

Yup, and depending on their mission assignment, sometimes they still do. Its coast guard personnel, but in Traveller terms they're still guys trained and tasked for boarding. When they aren't boarding they might be the ships cook, etc. For example, coast guards boats in the Berring Strait are more likely to be equipped with rescue divers and medics because that's a significant part of their mission. Coast Guard cutters patroling south of the Florida Keys are more likely to have a security detail for boarding actions because that is a significant part of their mission. Boats doing harbor patrol tend to be smaller with fewer crew. Cutters patroling 50 miles off shore tend to be larger with more crew and are able to handle a wider range of problems. Same reason, 50 miles off the coast, it might be an hour or more before "back up" can get there, so it pays to be better prepared.

Anyway, this is me working on "painting" a clearer "picture" of what routine system activity is like, how things work, who does what.
 
BardicHeart, I talked about customs and inspection duty, not patrol.

I meant to inspect and stop ships on the way jump point to planet (or high port) and back. So they should be moving near the planet and high port (if any), so help won't be so far away.
 
How close in do you assume they're doing those inspections?

Why wouldn't inspections be part of the patrol?

It takes an average of about 5 hours at 1 G to reach the 100D range to jump out. Since Traveller doesn't have fixed jump points or jump gates, ships could jump in or out about anywhere around that 100D perimeter. If it takes 5 hours just to get out to that range, how long does it take to make one orbit around the perimeter? Now how many hours from base are you? How many patrol craft are there? How long will it take the nearest craft to get to you for back up? If a ship jumps in at just outside the 100D and starts a 4G burn to planetside... does this set off any alarms? Are there enough patrols to notice? Is anyone close enough to intercept and if so, what do they have to intercept with? Wait... what do you mean that poor low pop world is intercepting with three 10k dt destroyers flying local colors???? (Mal.. where did those cho-jo-zee destroyers come from! Someone must have been really good for xmas.) :oo:

The above all assumes one inhabited planet is the only point of interest. What if there are colonies on other planets. Mining outposts. Belters in asteroid fields. Supply boats and freighters working in system. Now how far out are the patrols having to go? Do they not perform routine checks, checks if they think something looks suspicious? What's SOP in this system?

Maybe, maybe not. I would think it would vary from one system to the next governed in part by economics and practicallity. In some systems you'd have lots of patrol boats doing routine challenges and checks. They don't wait for you to show up in close orbit. Other systems might not be so organized. Some systems would be just too poor to afford that kind of security. For example if we do assume the Striker numbers are at least in the ball park then a world with the following UWP would work out like this...

UWP B353631 C Ag, Po 411

GNP = Tech x Trade x Pop
GNP = 16,000 x 1.2 (Ag) x 0.8 (Poor) x 4,000,000
GNP = 61,440,000,000

Militiary budget would be say 3% of that peace time.

Total Budget = 1,843,200,000

of which 40% goes planet side leaving 60% for the Navy (Striker p 38)

Navy Budget = 1,105,920,000

or 1,105.92 MCr annual budget.

So a poor world with a low pop isn't going to have dreadnaughts, and having more than a handful of patrol cruisers (400 dT, B2 p20) is going to be tough on their budget. Maybe this world only has a couple patrol boats and supplements with pinnaces, but coverage is still spotty due to lack of man power. Some areas, like Belters, might be almost entirely on their own. Maybe you could do a 4G burn to planet and slip past unnoticed or at least by the time they noticed you've hit atmo and are below the radar (smugglers like to know these things ;) ). Seems reasonable to me. Also paints a picture of what its like in the system, gives players a clear idea what they'll be up against if they decide to be... creative. ;)

On the other hand, a high Pop, Rich Industrial world with a
UWP A611868 F In, Rich 821

Would have a GNP of...

GNP = Tech x Trade x Pop
GNP = 22,000 x 1.4 (In) x 1.6 (Rich) x 800,000,000
GNP = 39,424,000,000,000

Or 39,424,000 MCr

For a military budget (only 1% this time, they aren't that nervous) of...

Budget = 394,240 MCr

But since the world has only a trace atmo, 94% goes to the Navy so..

Navy Budget = 378,470.4 MCr

This planet could afford dreadnaughts if it wanted too (I still question WHY they would buy them), it could certainly afford say 1,000 patrol boats for very solid patrol coverage (good luck smuggling something past these guys). They could afford a few planetoid bases out there as well (makes more sense to me than dreadnaughts, more heavily armored, mount massive sensors, room for LOTS of fighters, might not show up right away if there was an invasion, and maybe even repair facilities for those patrol boats). They don't wait for you to get into close orbit, you jump into system and odds are within 5 min you get a radio challenge asking who you are, what's your business and what's your destination. "Roger that, your registration and manifest seem in order. Please be aware of the following navigational hazards Blah Blah Blah Blah Make Some Up, also the system fleet is also conductiong maneuvers in Grid XYZ, for your own safety that area is a no fly zone until further notice. Thank you for your cooperation and have a safe trip."

This is the kind of thing I'm trying to get at. That helps me paint a clearer picture of what a system is like, so when Mal The Free Trader and Part Time Smuggler jumps into system with his merry band of misfits on their Fat Trader the Peaceful... I can give them a pretty good idea what the system is like, what's normal, what there is to interact with and avoid and what kind patrols there are if they decide to get... umm.... creative. ;)

Despite the assertion that Striker might not have been intended for this, I think Rancke is correct, it works perfectly well for it. If we assume the rich planetary systems spend that big budget on planetoid bases, fighter squadrons, patrol boats, etc. rather than fielding a couple of CruRons... I think it makes total sense.

This leaves the big war ships pretty much entirely in the hands of the Imp Navy; who are, so far as I can tell, the only ones who really need them.

Course I didn't know 90% of this before I started this thread, and a good chunk of it grew out of comments you made (alonge with Rancke and others)... so there... I blame you :rofl:

It does help me though, what I'm learning here is helping me reach a point where I can look at a UWP and quickly come up with a rough description of what a system is like. Its also got enough thought behind it that that description will still hold water if the PCs decide to do something... well... naughty, resulting in the fecal matter hitting the rotating blades and they have to make a run for it from what is now a hi-tech angry hornets nest (or do they, hey, its a poor world, we got a couple merc cruisers... let's take em on! Well, if you really want to try guys... here's what is inbound...). Even if the players think about it after the gaming session, it'll still hold up and make sense because I thought it through before hand. This allows my players to keep their suspension of disbelief going and stay immersed in the game... which is where the fun is. ;)

Also means I have to make fewer revisions and corrections later... hopefully...
 
They could afford a few planetoid bases out there as well (makes more sense to me than dreadnaughts, more heavily armored, mount massive sensors, room for LOTS of fighters, might not show up right away if there was an invasion, and maybe even repair facilities for those patrol boats). They don't wait for you to get into close orbit, you jump into system and odds are within 5 min you get a radio challenge asking who you are, what's your business and what's your destination. "Roger that, your registration and manifest seem in order. Please be aware of the following navigational hazards Blah Blah Blah Blah Make Some Up, also the system fleet is also conductiong maneuvers in Grid XYZ, for your own safety that area is a no fly zone until further notice. Thank you for your cooperation and have a safe trip."

I really like that image. And it's what I would expect from strong worlds.
 
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