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Stutterwarp Astrogation

What are your thoughts on stuttewarp navigation? A course must obviously be researched and laid in. How long would it take? Could a captain simply point a direction and "engage"? (aka Dead Reckoning in the newTraveller 2300 book)
What hazards are there in failing to plot a good course? Could you detect hazards while in warp in time to avoid them?

What about the system itself? How long to prepare to enter warp? If you are fleeing the authorities from a planet, how long before you could enter warp?

Ideas?
 
Many questions here...

Here goes my oppinions:

What are your thoughts on stuttewarp navigation? A course must obviously be researched and laid in. How long would it take? Could a captain simply point a direction and "engage"? (aka Dead Reckoning in the newTraveller 2300 book)

I'd say mostly yes. A captain (or more likely a navigator) just points a direction, puts the ship so that stutterwarp drive is perpendicular to it (IIRC the tunneling is perpendicular to the drive) and engages it.

What hazards are there in failing to plot a good course?

Main hazzard is not going the direction you want. This is mostly inconsequential (just a little longer trip) unless you're too close to the 7.7 threshold, in which case you could become lost.

Could you detect hazards while in warp in time to avoid them?

No. You're traveling at FTL pseudo-speed, so you outspeed your own sensors. As I understand stutterwarp, you cannot be tunneled to a solid body, just appearing close to it (but farther from the 0.1G threshold if that body has gravity of its own) and either the stutterwarp stops (if there's gravity) or you keep warping. If it stops, you can just turn your ship and keep warping in a different direction.

What about the system itself? How long to prepare to enter warp? If you are fleeing the authorities from a planet, how long before you could enter warp?

Again as I understand it, engaging stutterwarp is quite quick, and you can do it as soon as you're out the 0.1G threshold (and even before, but it's efficiency is less than conventional drives, but I guess still enough as to take you out of the gravity well). the main thing that can take time is to point the wanted direction, as it must be quite precise or you will be out of your way (as told above).


I'd suggest you to read the Notes on (Space) Naval Doctrine that appeared on the campaigns The Lone Wolf (Challenge 33) and Three Blind Mice (Challenge 37), where many notions about shadowing ships while in FTL, ambushing, sensors and other ruses are discussed. They are also good campaigns, mixted among RPG and Wargame
 
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Do you have charts for the area, or are you surveying as you go? How accurate are these charts, how recently updated, and how good are your navigational sensors?
Voyage planning today without electronic charts takes some time to lay the great circle course on a gnomonic chart showing the whole area of transit, getting the points, and transferring to a mercator chart, then transferring to smaller area charts. Verify there are no hazards on your planned track, or alter it to avoid them.
There are also published storm tracks - the previously plotted best course for anywhere to anywhere else, and a widening series of storm-avoidance tracks to get there if forced off-course by weather.
Also, recall in the Hunt for Red October the sub's trip through the canyon.
That's in explored, surveyed, charted areas. Out in the wilds, you have to make your own charts. Either way, yes, you can just head "thataway" and then plot a course, but it can be risky. Remember the USS San Francisco? She was running too fast for sonar to warn her about the uncharted sea mount in front of her, and one sailor died. the agency who makes our charts, the National Geo-spatial Intelligence agency, knew about that sea-mount in 1985, and just didn't update the bottom contour charts subs rely on until after the collision.
If I know where I am, and can trust my chart, I can do that - go faster than my sensors can check for hazards - and probably be safe, but that goes against a Quartermaster's duty to keep the ship safe, so I'll argue against it with the Officer of the Wreck.
Once I have the voyage planning doen and track laid, CO approved, and nav brief performed, we send messages to a central location that correlates our track with weather to help us avoid it, and to keep track of us. Then we sail. Depending on how close to land we are, we may take fixes (determine our position) every minute up to every 30 minutes, and by visual, sonar, radar, and gps means. Every fix, we compare where we are to where we expected to be, lay a new dead reckoning course, compare where we are to PIM (plan of intended movement - that message earlier). If we are more than 4 hours ahead or behind, we send a new message. If CIC doesn't agree with our figures, we recalculate PIM. Then we tell the OOD where we are in relation to track, our previous DR plot, and PIM, and make any recommendatios for course/speed changes.
That doesn't get into contact and hazard avoidance or other issues, but it gives the idea.
Hope this helps.
 
Good stuff, lending towards the kind of color I invision for stutterwarp travel. (except for the communications, thats kind of limited after you file your initial flight plan with whatever authorities happen to be at your beginning destination. No way to update or call ahead once you start)

My version of 2300 may be a bit more hard than some so the kind of restrictions and frankly, hassle, you relate sounds just right. I also like the feeling that stuttering off at rediculous speeds into space is kind of scary, even now after a hundred years of it. It requires time, skill and effort, and there is always a risk.
 
What are your thoughts on stuttewarp navigation? A course must obviously be researched and laid in. How long would it take?

I think it depends on the trip. Between settled stars it's quick, the courses are already laid out, you just bring up the stellar locations program in your navigational computer, it computes exact distance to the destination and away you go. Stutterwarp isn't like "into the hole and out" like Jump. It's more like sailing today so you could make course corrections pretty much any time you want between your origin and destination. Most people as "time as money" probably use the shortest distance.

Could a captain simply point a direction and "engage"? (aka Dead Reckoning in the newTraveller 2300 book)

Yes, though course corrections would probably have to be made.

Could you detect hazards while in warp in time to avoid them?

Yes. Many people seem to believe that Stutterwarp involves going into some alternate dimension like Traveller Jump drive, Warp travel from Warhammer 40,000, or Star Wars Hyperdrive. You don't actually do this.

Stutterwarp is a scaling up electron tunnel phenomenon, which from my understanding is basically probability. In 2300AD, this probability is explained by teleporting which has somehow been scaled up to move starship sized objects about. Because of this each jump in Stutterwarp takes no time, it's literally instantaneous phenomenon, which can be a bit mind-bending. You do some quantum probability stuff, and one moment you're in one location, the next you're in another. Each jump is pretty short, like on the order of a few hundred meters, with each jump distance getting shorter the higher gravity gradient you're in and longer the less gravity there is. Stutterwarp repeats these jumps thousands of times per second so you in effect end up traveling faster than the speed of light once gravity gets low enough as you make tiny hops around existence to get places like someone was butt-splicing film together to give the effect of teleporting, you "stutter" about, that's why it's called Stutterwarp.

The time it takes to travel between systems with Stutterwarp is actually all time spent in the "real" universe - it's the time it takes for the Stutterwarp (or more properly, the Jerome Drive) to prepare for the next jump, such as charging the capacitor coil, or aligning them, or whatever handwavium that occurs for Stutterwarp to occur. During this period, the a ship's passive sensors can take in data from the outside. Obviously active sensors will not work if you're traveling at effectively faster-than-light speeds as you'll outrun your own broadcasts, but passive sensors work fine. Stutterwarp has no speed vector of its own since you teleport about - you have the speed vector you started your trip at, plus anything your might apply while in mid-trip using your own thrusters, so I don't think there'd be any red or blue shifting of radiation into your sensors - as far as physics is concerned, you're pretty much dead in the water between teleports.

Your passive sensors can gather data on potential threats ahead by paralax differences in the data samples taken between each teleport. The computer would track all of these, figure out what's closer by the shift in perspective each jump and sort them for threat.

This won't take into account small particles and it's never explained exactly how ships avoid tiny particles, with the mysterious vanishing of a ship Carolina Dream in the Colonial Atlas explained as a collision with an object. Given that small objects like this can't be rare, I'd rather think this was sloppy quality control on the part of GDW for the writers of the Colonial Atlas or else you'd think Stutterwarp travel would be really hazardous. So in my 2300 universe, I explain that Stutterwarp has an additional safety feature, the Quantum Precipitation Predictor (QPP). The QPP works by using more quantum probability and powerful computers to "know" (predict) what will be in a Stutterwarp's next hop location. If it finds anything that will be a significant threat to the ship or its occupants, the device automatically plots a course to avoid it. If it can't find a location like this, it doesn't jump at all and gives an error. This means that areas of space with fine debris (like fine sand or dust particles given off by explosions) can shut down a Stutterwarp. Obviously if there's some sort atmosphere, even if it's not 0.1G will shut down a Stutterwarp.

What about the system itself? How long to prepare to enter warp? If you are fleeing the authorities from a planet, how long before you could enter warp?

Stutterwarp isn't Jump. You don't "prepare to enter warp." Stutterwarp is essentially a kind of propulsion system which lets you go faster the less gravity there is, besides certain break points, the "speed" of travel seems linear on how weak the local gravity is. So really Stutterwarp is more like a modern automobile, except instead of speed being a function of time and engine capability, it's a function of gravity gradient and engine capability. Most people don't think about "preparing to drive at 50kph."

Stutterwarps have to prepare for a journey, certainly, just like any trip - even with a car, you probably need to at least grab the car keys. For longer trips you'd get maps, fuel the car up, and so on. Stutterwarp ships need to know any remaining residual charge on their coils (as this determines the maximum distance you can go), how much fuel they have, their provisions and so on, but you don't spend time dimming the lights and so on waiting to go into warp with Stutterwarp.
 
Yes. Many people seem to believe that Stutterwarp involves going into some alternate dimension like Traveller Jump drive, Warp travel from Warhammer 40,000, or Star Wars Hyperdrive. You don't actually do this.

Stutterwarp is a scaling up electron tunnel phenomenon, which from my understanding is basically probability. In 2300AD, this probability is explained by teleporting which has somehow been scaled up to move starship sized objects about. Because of this each jump in Stutterwarp takes no time, it's literally instantaneous phenomenon, which can be a bit mind-bending. You do some quantum probability stuff, and one moment you're in one location, the next you're in another. Each jump is pretty short, like on the order of a few hundred meters, with each jump distance getting shorter the higher gravity gradient you're in and longer the less gravity there is. Stutterwarp repeats these jumps thousands of times per second so you in effect end up traveling faster than the speed of light once gravity gets low enough as you make tiny hops around existence to get places like someone was butt-splicing film together to give the effect of teleporting, you "stutter" about, that's why it's called Stutterwarp.

The time it takes to travel between systems with Stutterwarp is actually all time spent in the "real" universe - it's the time it takes for the Stutterwarp (or more properly, the Jerome Drive) to prepare for the next jump, such as charging the capacitor coil, or aligning them, or whatever handwavium that occurs for Stutterwarp to occur. During this period, the a ship's passive sensors can take in data from the outside. Obviously active sensors will not work if you're traveling at effectively faster-than-light speeds as you'll outrun your own broadcasts, but passive sensors work fine. Stutterwarp has no speed vector of its own since you teleport about - you have the speed vector you started your trip at, plus anything your might apply while in mid-trip using your own thrusters, so I don't think there'd be any red or blue shifting of radiation into your sensors - as far as physics is concerned, you're pretty much dead in the water between teleports.

Your passive sensors can gather data on potential threats ahead by paralax differences in the data samples taken between each teleport. The computer would track all of these, figure out what's closer by the shift in perspective each jump and sort them for threat.

Well, it seems we disagree here (as shown by what I've told in my earlier post).

While I agree that passive sensors might detect any object in your way when you're travelling by stutterwarp (IIRC only French call it Jerome Drive), to detect such non energy radiating objects by passive sensors while on the vastness of space (out of a system) takes time, probably more than it will take to reach it.

This won't take into account small particles and it's never explained exactly how ships avoid tiny particles, with the mysterious vanishing of a ship Carolina Dream in the Colonial Atlas explained as a collision with an object. Given that small objects like this can't be rare, I'd rather think this was sloppy quality control on the part of GDW for the writers of the Colonial Atlas or else you'd think Stutterwarp travel would be really hazardous. So in my 2300 universe, I explain that Stutterwarp has an additional safety feature, the Quantum Precipitation Predictor (QPP). The QPP works by using more quantum probability and powerful computers to "know" (predict) what will be in a Stutterwarp's next hop location. If it finds anything that will be a significant threat to the ship or its occupants, the device automatically plots a course to avoid it. If it can't find a location like this, it doesn't jump at all and gives an error. This means that areas of space with fine debris (like fine sand or dust particles given off by explosions) can shut down a Stutterwarp. Obviously if there's some sort atmosphere, even if it's not 0.1G will shut down a Stutterwarp.

My take here also differs form yours. As I also told in my earlier post, I assume that the same physical laws that allow the electron (and larger objects) tunneling don't allow them to materialize on solid bodies, so avoiding most of the danger of collision.

The loss of the Carolina Dream could be explained as materializing too close to one such objects so that it collided before the next tunneling (an extremely rare possibility, but possible nonetheless).

As an aside, this explanation would also nullify the possibility of using kinetic munitions to be used against warping ships, as only if this extremely rare condition is met could they damage the ship.
 
I wondered at one point about the defensive capability of lacing areas of space with debris (Sand fields of whatever)

Such a maneuver, and the possibiliity of similar natural barriers, would prove disasterous (or at least an impedence) unless there was some factor removing it as a hindrance.

We know that any object in contact with a ship as it engages stutterwarp can be interpreted as part of the ship and Ive read about some process by which the ship rids itself of accumulated particles and such. Theres probably a high tech solution in there somewhere. You guys may be skipping around it and Im just missing it.
 
That small debris still keep its vector (probably diferent from the ship's) even while warping with the ship, so I guess it will just go away as if the ship was stoped even while tunneling with it.

If it doesn't, I'd say just stoing the stutterwarp drive for a while and playing a little with the directional thrusters (shaking the ship, so to say) would rid the ship off of most such small debris. It's not glued to the ship, just close enough to it to warp together.

EDIT: Of course, static may keep some dust on the ship, but I guess it will be rid away when such static is discharged (when discharging the stutterwarp).
 
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The only preparation that would be involved would be the drive discharge. Depending on the source this either takes 42-44 hours to discharge a fully "charged" drive (i.e., one that's traveled its full 7.7 light-year limit). If you have a fully discharged drive (or one that can handle the "FTL" distance you want to go) you simply just go to full-"speed" as soon as you're in a weak enough gravity field.
 
The only preparation that would be involved would be the drive discharge. Depending on the source this either takes 42-44 hours to discharge a fully "charged" drive (i.e., one that's traveled its full 7.7 light-year limit). If you have a fully discharged drive (or one that can handle the "FTL" distance you want to go) you simply just go to full-"speed" as soon as you're in a weak enough gravity field.

IIRC, the stuterwarp discharge is not dependent on its previous charge (so the distance already travelled). The fact you have travelled only 3 LY will allow you to travel 4.7 LY more, before discharging, but if you decide to discharge, it will take about 40 hours anyway.
 
We know that any object in contact with a ship as it engages stutterwarp can be interpreted as part of the ship and Ive read about some process by which the ship rids itself of accumulated particles and such. Theres probably a high tech solution in there somewhere. You guys may be skipping around it and Im just missing it.

I think you may be remembering about how a Stutterwarp coil accumulates a static charge as it travels through space. It periodically has to discharge this or else around 7.7 light years, the charge causes the Stutterwarp coil to break down, doing Bad Things. A skilled engineer can distribute this charge around the coil more evenly, giving you greater than 7.7 light years distance to play with (why a computer can't do this better than a human remains a mystery to me).

While I agree that passive sensors might detect any object in your way when you're travelling by stutterwarp (IIRC only French call it Jerome Drive), to detect such non energy radiating objects by passive sensors while on the vastness of space (out of a system) takes time, probably more than it will take to reach it.

No disagreement. I just think that sensor technology for ships is pretty good in 2300, fine enough to detect most objects larger, than say, a small automobile, at least at ranges sufficient to avoid collision - which is essentially the distance of the next jump since Stutterwarp has no inertia iirc. Ships in my 2300 universe use QPPs to avoid smaller objects.

My take here also differs form yours. As I also told in my earlier post, I assume that the same physical laws that allow the electron (and larger objects) tunneling don't allow them to materialize on solid bodies, so avoiding most of the danger of collision.

The loss of the Carolina Dream could be explained as materializing too close to one such objects so that it collided before the next tunneling (an extremely rare possibility, but possible nonetheless).

As an aside, this explanation would also nullify the possibility of using kinetic munitions to be used against warping ships, as only if this extremely rare condition is met could they damage the ship.

Yeah, there's not much to debate here. It's never really explained in-game how this is done, but I figure it has to be done somehow. Your explanation is as good as mine. I originally had an idea that the Stutterwarp system actually "trades places" with whatever is there to avoid debris, since this is quantum physics and really strange interactions like that aren't entirely inconceivable, but in the end I went with the QPP for my universe. It keeps things like kinetic energy projectiles from hitting Stutterwarp ships, but it also keeps them from flying in atmosphere, regardless of local gravity.

Ys, Stutterwarp ships (in my universe) can be kept away from something by shooting something like a sandcaster in an area around it. Obviously, the distances involved are pretty minuscule compared to that of space combat distances so it's of limited application.

You can still hit Stutterwarp ships with lasers and other light-speed weaponry because the predictor can't really "predict" something like that before it teleports a ship somewhere.
 
Accumulated Static Charge : Nope, Im fully aware of the 7.7 limit and need to discharge, I was thinking of literal particles or some form, attaching to then hull due to static or what have you.

Sensors During Warp : Its pretty impressive indeed to think that a sensor can sweep and detect, then possibly hand off the info and stimulate a course correction, all in the millisecond the ship is in between stutter transport. They are supposed to occur like hundreds of thousands of times second arent they? Thats a bit hard to grasp. In that the distances jumped are relatively small I might be swayed to believe that every minute or so, perhaps 30 seconds, the ship hesitates for a few seconds, enough for the sensors to do their thing. Id have to do the math but Im fairly certain they would still out run their sensor range but it at least makes a certain logical/technical sense.
 
Can you expound a bit on the QPP. What information does it actually use to predict? If it detects something along its path, its mass, location and vector are all pretty much a constant, what is there to predict?
 
IIRC, the stuterwarp discharge is not dependent on its previous charge (so the distance already travelled). The fact you have travelled only 3 LY will allow you to travel 4.7 LY more, before discharging, but if you decide to discharge, it will take about 40 hours anyway.

New 2300 TRAVELLER BOOK - Page 265
" Discharge time is a function of the distance travelled and takes about 6 hours per light year traveled. Thus a full 7.7 light year voyage would take 44.2 hours to discharge"

Granted, I dont use Traveller, Im a classic player myself, but somebody must have thought this made sense along the way, although I dont recall ever seeing it in the original rules or commentary.
 
Can you expound a bit on the QPP. What information does it actually use to predict? If it detects something along its path, its mass, location and vector are all pretty much a constant, what is there to predict?

The operation of the QPP is essentially rides on the coattails of the handwavium that is necessary to make Stutterwarp itself work.

Electron tunneling has some weird stuff involved in it since electrons aren't really particles. They're technically in a single point, in another point, and sort of in all points at the same time. Jerome somehow scaled this effect up to basically make starships cheat around the physical universe.

The QPP essentially uses more of this electron state stuff, scaled up. When an Electron "teleports" it's actually not in any particular place but effectively is everywhere at once within the bounds of where it could be. Similarly, then, with Stutterwarp, there's a moment where the ship is in no particular place, yet is everywhere within the boundary of where it could be at once (the area bounded by the maximum distance of a single stutterwarp jump).

In simplistic terms, the QPP analyzes the place where the ship plans to actually be during this moment. Since there's this mind-bending moment where the ship has actually yet to make it jump, yet already has at this moment the QPP can know if the jump is successful. If it is successful (there's no significant obstruction), then the QPP allows all the potentials to collapse and the ship is there. If the jump is unsuccessful (there IS a significant obstruction), then the jump is not made and the QPP chooses another point to move the ship to. Because of the nature of probability, the QPP actually can do this "intuitively" and checks all the possibilities at once and just lets the ship move the a point where the jump will be successful.

For the purpose of making the QPP seem more "real" of a device, the QPP can make mistakes. It just can't make "bad" mistakes, but can make mistakes that err on the side of caution, essentially: The QPP cannot move the ship to a point where there will be a collision by accident. The device can get false positives; it thinks that a point that is actually safe to teleport is not, in which case it will move the ship somewhere else even though the original destination was perfectly safe. In addition, light travels fast enough that it can be outside of the collision detection range of the QPP (the volume of a single Stutterwarp jump) but hit the ship before the Stutterwarp cycles again; that's why lasers aren't dodged by the QPP. If someone could accelerate a physical object to like 99.(lots of 9s) of the speed of light, they could make a physical object hit a Stutterwarp ship as well; it's just nobody has done that yet, so Stutterwarps are protected by QPPs from physical collisions.

EDIT:

This does make it possible to create "stutterwarp torpedoes" to hit things slow things that are not stutterwarping about (such as planets), something that'd cause a fair amount of destruction. McPerth's solution avoids this. Just be warned that some "bright" player will probably think of this so be ready when they do.
 
I see, thanks. Ill admit the process seems a bit advanced for 2300 AD, to my mind even more so than stutterwarp itself, but thats just my opinion. I always kind of felt that stutterwarp technology was in itself a lucky break for mankind and it was sort of a raw technology. What you are describing is pretty up there, anaylsis of coexisting realities and such, but I cant deny it fills a need.

Im wondering if a more mundane but similar technology couldnt produce the same affect, high speed - short range sensor data and periodic lulls in stutterwarp to allow midcourse corrections along with some sort of phenomena that renders minute matter harmless should it be encountered.
 
Accumulated Static Charge : Nope, Im fully aware of the 7.7 limit and need to discharge, I was thinking of literal particles or some form, attaching to then hull due to static or what have you.

Pehaps I didn't explain myself well:

When I talked about static, I didn't mean this is what accumulates on the tantaum coils, but that the ship probably generates some static too that will attach small particles to the ship. When the stuttetwarp is discharged, probably this static may be discharged too, so getting the ship rid off those small particles that have not been rideen off by "ship shaking" as told above.

New 2300 TRAVELLER BOOK - Page 265
" Discharge time is a function of the distance travelled and takes about 6 hours per light year traveled. Thus a full 7.7 light year voyage would take 44.2 hours to discharge"

Granted, I dont use Traveller, Im a classic player myself, but somebody must have thought this made sense along the way, although I dont recall ever seeing it in the original rules or commentary.

Well, I have no access to MgT 2300 AD (my usual gaming shop has not received it since I'm asking). What I have access to is Traveller 2300 (also known as 2300 AD 1st edition), and there the process takes about 40 hours, regardless the distance travelled (i think about it as a process that takes this time, like a washing machine, whose duration doesn't vary with the ammount of clothing you put on it).

See that making this discharge time distance dependent makes easier to go through a blockade, as most times you must not spend those 40 hours in system, but quite less several times (not saying this is good or bad, just pointing the change).
 
McPerth

Early on you wrote you assumed tunneling laws would not allow a ship to coexist in the same spot as other matter. I would agree but how is it then prevented? Is the stutterwarp shop moved to the side as it materializes? Does the other matter? Perhaps the one with the least mass?

Im trying to imagine a ship moving into the are and displacing other vessels as it passes through, essentially scattering ships as it goes. But even if it does, how do they scatter? Do they actually move or are they 'displaced' never having traveled the interim distance?

Kind of odd. I like the idea of simply saying it cant happen, but Id need a way to imagine it 'not happening'.
 
McPerth

Early on you wrote you assumed tunneling laws would not allow a ship to coexist in the same spot as other matter. I would agree but how is it then prevented? Is the stutterwarp shop moved to the side as it materializes? Does the other matter? Perhaps the one with the least mass?

Im trying to imagine a ship moving into the are and displacing other vessels as it passes through, essentially scattering ships as it goes. But even if it does, how do they scatter? Do they actually move or are they 'displaced' never having traveled the interim distance?

Kind of odd. I like the idea of simply saying it cant happen, but Id need a way to imagine it 'not happening'.

IMHO it can happen two ways: either the tunneling does not occur (so the ship stops) or it's thrown out of tunneling just before the solid mass and keeps tunneling from there (so making a shorter tunneling once).

So, if your ship is going to materiaize on next tunneling just where a comet is, it can either stap instead of materilaizing there or just materialize a few metters from it and then keep tunneling (assuming tunneling may go through a solid body, if it's smaller than you tunneling).

This could also explain the loss of the Carolina Dream if it materialized just before a comet (or any kind of rock) too large to tunnel across it, so stoped, and the comet kept moving in its vector and collided with it. Of course, for this to happen you must stop right before a large enough body and inside its vector movement, what could explain this is a very rare ocurrence...
 
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