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System Defenses

Those prices always ran to about $3... not $1. Do some catalog checks. Only food was at $1=Cr1.

$5=Cr1 works for the commodities prices in TTB and T20 with 2008US$, presuming a limit of 10Mg per Td and 10Kl per TD... and the 1977 is not 5x the 2008... (generally it's considered about 2008$3.5=1977$1
 
Those prices always ran to about $3... not $1. Do some catalog checks. Only food was at $1=Cr1.
Food and lodging. Basic living expenses. That's a big part of cost of living, you know. What TL7 equipment prices have you compared to Real Life equipment prices? Are you sure those comparisons were valid? To my recollection I've never before seen anyone claim that a credit wasn't equivalent to a 1977 US dollar. I don't see why the original authors would use one conversion factor for food and another for other stuff. What would be the point?


Hans
 
Is my memory off, I recall 1Cr = an hour of unskilled labor (US minimum wage), @1979 that was about $3.00US? In the mid 1980s when they refigured things the minimum wage was running @5.00US.

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As for the actual military forces of planets I think manpower is a better way to assign things than cost of equipment. First, military materiel in Traveller, by all indications, has absurdly long service lives - buy 25 grav tanks a year and in 20 years you can field an armored division. Second, since cheap weapons exist to equip troops there is no practical reason not to create a "Urban Defense Division" with SMGs if the manpower is available.

The percentage of the population devoted to the military will vary due to many factors but we can generalize that over 2% is probably wartime mobilization (not necessarily at war) and .1% is effectively disarmed (the Treaty of Versailles was considered to have disarmed Germany with an army limited to .18% of it's population). Of the military a fair amount will not be combat people*, above tech 6 there will be, give or take, 9 non-combat persons for every combat person.** Apply whatever factors you think are reasonable to determine where a given planet stands, a balkanized planet in the Spinward Marches which was invaded in the 5th Frontier War will almost certainly devote more of it's population to the military than a gov code 0 world in the Core which hasn't seen a war in 9 centuries.


Also, I like the 4 per 100,000 / 1 ship's crew per 100,000 population because it is such an easy number to work with. Sure you can sit down and make all kinds of calculations based upon government type, stellar location, tech level, psychological makeup of the population and whatever else you want to throw in, but there is a nice simplicity to my system which allows the creation of the general outlines of a military on the fly.







*people is used because of the various way that have been found to confuse military and non-military positions. have technical civilians do all of the support jobs and you can shrink your "military" while still devoting the same fraction of the population to military service. have "civilian instructors" drive tanks onto the battlefield and fly planes in combat and you can shrink your nominal military even more.


**the various Traveller systems don't make this "logistics tail" grow with tech. different models of future military make this ratio change as tech advances until at very high tech you need 1000 support people for every fighting person. I think this is more realistic than the Traveller system but if we take Traveller as it is then the 9:1 ratio is what we wind up with.
 
Food and lodging. Basic living expenses. That's a big part of cost of living, you know. What TL7 equipment prices have you compared to Real Life equipment prices? Are you sure those comparisons were valid? To my recollection I've never before seen anyone claim that a credit wasn't equivalent to a 1977 US dollar. I don't see why the original authors would use one conversion factor for food and another for other stuff. What would be the point?


Hans

Food and lodging are also the MOST variable expenses. I could eat for literally half as much by moving to Oregon, or about 1/3 as much by moving to Idaho. (Produce and meat costs are MUCH higher here...)

Comparing ground cars: the CT ground car was Cr4000... new cars of 1978 ranged from $4,500-$18,000... with sedans about $5,000-$6000.
Ford Pinto Wagon $4,075 1977
Dodge Aspen $4,515 1977
Ford LTD $5,866 1977
Buick Electra 225 $7,033 1977
(http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html)
the driver+5pass+cargo rules out the pinto, and the description really sounds like the LTD... which seated 5 in reasonable comfort, and still had a decent trunk, sufficient for light luggage with 6 people.

12ga shotgun $350-$450 for 6rd semiauto vs Cr150 for 10rd semiauto (http://books.google.com/books?id=KQEAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=1977+Firearms+catalog#v=onepage&q=&f=false page 4)

I consistently find that the comparison prices are between 1977$2 and 1977$3 per Cr1.
 
Is my memory off, I recall 1Cr = an hour of unskilled labor (US minimum wage), @1979 that was about $3.00US? In the mid 1980s when they refigured things the minimum wage was running @5.00US.

"The minimum wage increased to $2.00 an hour in 1974, $2.10 in 1975, and $2.30 in 1976 for all except farm workers, whose minimum initially rose to $1.60. Parity with nonfarm workers was reached at $2.30 with the 1977 amendments." ( http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/coverage.htm )

"The minimum went to $2.65 an hour in January 1978, $2.90 in January 1979, $3.10 in January 1980, and $3.35 in January 1981." (ibid)

It didn't break $5/hr until the 1990's...
 
Comparing ground cars: the CT ground car was Cr4000... new cars of 1978 ranged from $4,500-$18,000... with sedans about $5,000-$6000.
Ford Pinto Wagon $4,075 1977
Dodge Aspen $4,515 1977
Ford LTD $5,866 1977
Buick Electra 225 $7,033 1977
(http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html)
My knowledge of cars are slim, so I don't know how comparable they are, but there's at least half a dozen cars on that same list that are below $4,000 (It may be in 1976 or 1979 rather than 1977, but I should think that would be close enough to count).

the driver+5pass+cargo rules out the pinto, and the description really sounds like the LTD... which seated 5 in reasonable comfort, and still had a decent trunk, sufficient for light luggage with 6 people.
So this example would give Cr1 = $1.50, right? Not $2 or $3.

12ga shotgun $350-$450 for 6rd semiauto vs Cr150 for 10rd semiauto
And the advert you got that figure from is about an average shotgun? Not a luxury model? A quick google found me an advert with shotguns ranging in price from $239 to $668. Still more than 150, but the author may have looked at something cheaper. At 239 we're still down to Cr1 = $1.50.


I consistently find that the comparison prices are between 1977$2 and 1977$3 per Cr1.
Except for cars and shotguns, you mean? :devil:


Hans
 
My knowledge of cars are slim, so I don't know how comparable they are, but there's at least half a dozen cars on that same list that are below $4,000 (It may be in 1976 or 1979 rather than 1977, but I should think that would be close enough to count).
the description in the book requires a sedan. Most of the sedans on the list are 5-6K


So this example would give Cr1 = $1.50, right? Not $2 or $3.
This one, yes. Actually, closer to $2 when looking at prices in Alaska, as I originally did. Then again, Alaska prices were considerably higher.


And the advert you got that figure from is about an average shotgun? Not a luxury model? A quick google found me an advert with shotguns ranging in price from $239 to $668. Still more than 150, but the author may have looked at something cheaper. At 239 we're still down to Cr1 = $1.50.
it's a feature for feature comparable shotgun to the one listed in CT, except for less ammo aboard.

It's not a pump. Like the one listed in CT, it's a semi-auto shotgun. detachable box mag shotguns would be about the same price range. Pumps about half the cost.

It is easily shown that the CT Cr is NOT 1977US$1
 
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