Originally Posted by tjoneslo
The VehicleMaker rules are very limited. I found them unusable, but for a very limited definition they may work. I mostly found too many odd shifts in abstraction levels.
Rather than hijack the T5 Errata discussion thread since this isn't specifically about Errata I'm posting the response here. I'm going to address my statement, and your request, by building a few vehicles with my commentary about how I find the system limited, confusing, or broken in hopes you can point out where I'm wandering down the wrong path. This post is part 1 of N.Originally Posted by robject
I'd like to hear more. I find them quite usable.
The VM rules appear to me to produce the right range of Traveller-themed vehicles, and have lots of wiggle-room for trying to get what you want. I think there are tweaks that could be made, and there is certainly errata, but all in all it seems to work for me.
What bits in particular do you find limited, and in what way were the rules unusable?
For my starting point I want to build a motor cycle. Not a specific one, but the general idea of a small, light, cheap wheeled vehicle for one, maybe two, people.
First problem: The text describing the Vehicle Maker rules is on p.281-286. The tables for the builder 298-301. The intervening text is interesting, but could be moved to after the tables.
Selecting Type C (Car), Mission (blank) and Motive W (Wheeled), we get a basic stats of TL 6, 2 Tons, speed 5, Load 1, and 20Kcr.
Then on to page 300 and the Vehicle Enhancers. Since we want the smallest possible item, we choose Very light bulk. This gets us TL 5, 2/3 Tons, Speed 6, load -1 (?) and 6.667Kcr. Load of -1, IIRC from an earlier discussion on the Errata thread means the vehicle can't carry any cargo. It should be kept at -1 for now, but set to 0 at the end of the design process. Assuming nothing else modifies it any further.
Step E: Stage. Here I have three issues.
First is Fossil, PowerCell, and Renewable violates what I refereed to above as "abstraction levels". Thus far everything has been at a high level of abstraction, making no reference to specific functions. It also implies "Stage" is "Motive power", but if I choose "standard" stage, motive power is whatever is appropriate at that TL I think.
Second a nit pick: The Stage levels are close to, but don't match, the TL names on the manufacturing table on p. 498. There are, at least to my review, inconsistencies in the progression from Vearly to advanced.
Third. If I choose Improved or advanced, the size (tons) of the vehicle becomes negative. Unlike load where you can explain a negative value, a 0 or negative size is just confusing or broken.
The text on p.285 says there is a stage: Alternate, but it's not on the table.
For Stage E I choose Standard, with no modifications to the vehicle.
Step F: Environment. Why this is abbreviated in the table I'm not sure. But for our motor cycle, select Air (open), and the vehicle is TL3.
I choose no options for the vehicle. Mostly because this is supposed to be small and cheap and options add size and cost.
Controls: Manual, as the text on p. 286 says, for vlight vehcles.
Hidden in the bottom corner of p. 295, the occupants chart indicated the vlight vehicle has 1 occupant.
Code:
Very Light Wheeled Car TL 3, KCr6.7
Tons Speed Load Stage Environ End QREBS Options
Vx 0.7 6 -1 Standard Open Hours 80000
Ar Ca Fp Rp Sp Psi In Se
Ax 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Things I find confusing:
In building a simple vehicle, I come across two impossible situations, the negative load and negative size.
The vehicle is TL3, prior to the Traveller standard TL levels access to any powered vehicle design. So the TL calculated by the vehicle design doesn't match the TL for the rest of Traveller. I think the best thing here is to ignore the -2TL for the open air environment, the bike remains at TL5 (which makes more sense).
The 100kph top speed I'm assuming is a theoretical maximum. If I want the design to be slower, because I'm envisioning an underpowered scooter, I can simply decide that. But that's not clear.
While it might be nice to build some historical vehicles, either from real life, from other versions of Traveller, or from other systems altogether, the level of abstraction in the system means it isn't really possible.Ah, it occurs to me that you might think VM is for creating historical vehicles. But surely there is no need for that: just map real-world performance and characteristics to Traveller's benchmarks, and you're done. In other words, a vehicle is a thing that behaves according to the same rules, just with different parameters tuned to benchmarks. Finally, you can use ThingMaker if you need to model the physical nature of things further.
As the design above shows, the system won't make a "vehicle" any smaller. This is implied in the system and explicit in your statement above.