Terraforming
- Thread starter ovka
- Start date
Not as such - the board game Imperium allowed you to terraform worlds, but it took something like 40 or 50 turns, and it wasn't cheap.
I'd say it would be at ref's discretion - it should be expensive, take decades maybe centuries (or you risk the planet's climate running away from you in unintended directions) and not undertaken that often.
Given how many worlds there are on the Traveller Map that have billions of people but barely any atmosphere, it looks like the Imperium prefers arcologies and massive life-support systems to terraforming.
I'd say it would be at ref's discretion - it should be expensive, take decades maybe centuries (or you risk the planet's climate running away from you in unintended directions) and not undertaken that often.
Given how many worlds there are on the Traveller Map that have billions of people but barely any atmosphere, it looks like the Imperium prefers arcologies and massive life-support systems to terraforming.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Which may indicate that the Imperium views that as less expensive than terraforming, and much faster.
Which is the explanation IMTU in my 3I campaign. I do have two worlds which have completed their initial terraforming programs (150 years and 700 years) but neither went as expected. Thus, lots of arcologies, underground cities, orbital cities, floating domes, etc. But I do require a world to provide a handful of natural resources to justify such investment in its surface. Otherwise orbital habitats in an asteroid belt make much more sense.
I seem to remember that MegaTrav touched upon terraforming in its tech tables but I was never really into MT so I can't be sure. Worth a look though, if you have access to the material.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Terra forming gets a mention in the original Spinward Marches:
Not a bad effort for a TL5 world...
starship_captain62
SOC-7
Terrafoming
I think that terrafoming is something that is up to individual referees. I agree with previous posts that arcolgies and things such as undergoing cities, space stations/O'Neill colonies and hollowed out asteroids might be cheaper and easier than terrafoming an entire planet. Also possibly faster.
If however you are creating your own sector/subsector and you happen to get a habitable world orbiting a star that seems unlikely to have one (such as a short lived main sequence type O or B, a red giant) a referee may consider the possibility of that world being terrafomed. I would imagine that although terrafoming is a lengthy process, it is still much faster than life evolving naturally on such world's.
I think such cases may be uncommon. Use sparingly.
I think that terrafoming is something that is up to individual referees. I agree with previous posts that arcolgies and things such as undergoing cities, space stations/O'Neill colonies and hollowed out asteroids might be cheaper and easier than terrafoming an entire planet. Also possibly faster.
If however you are creating your own sector/subsector and you happen to get a habitable world orbiting a star that seems unlikely to have one (such as a short lived main sequence type O or B, a red giant) a referee may consider the possibility of that world being terrafomed. I would imagine that although terrafoming is a lengthy process, it is still much faster than life evolving naturally on such world's.
I think such cases may be uncommon. Use sparingly.
Fair enough. Thanks for all of the replies. I thought I remembered passing references to Terraforming (like Thisbe), but didn't recall seeing much more than that. It just seemed to me that it either would be widespread (and should therefore have some sort of rules), or very rare (with lots of arcologies). I guess very rare is the answer. 
Cheers,
Baron Ovka
Cheers,
Baron Ovka
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Another thought- many of the weird results out there for planets that have 'too much atmosphere' or so many oxygen planets could be terraforming projects, either of the current humans or distant past human/alien race/polities.
Terraforming might also not be the industrial enterprise it's often thought of with atmosphere processors or 'ice bombs', but a bioengineering one.
PBS EONS has this series, relevant ones are fungi breaking up rocks to provide mineral-rich soils, our planet being purple on land and rust red oceans (although not at the same time), and of course the great oxygenation event. Terraforming might be more about dropping tons of 'our' microbes and seeding fungi onto a methane planet or the like.
Eons Oxygenation-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qERdL8uHSgI
Eons Fungi-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G64DagHuOg
Eons Purple Earth-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIA-k_bBcL0
Now then, another item to consider- whether the mechanism is bioindustrial or raw industrial might, changing the atmosphere and crowding out the local biosphere means essentially destroying an entire line of evolutionary development- biocide on a planetary scale.
A huge bioethics question, and may again explain the 'weird' UWPs out there, with terraforming only undertaken on sterile planets.
IMTU the pharmabanks would be horrified at destroying a biosphere, which is a huge goldmine of templates for bioproducts and processes. ESPECIALLY if it's a new combination of DNA locally generated or seeded by a previously unknown civilization.
My favorite worldgen rules has a rule on terraforming- I'm not comfortable with TL10 being the benchmark although it certainly fits in well with the Imperium game tech, I'd think a bit further along, TL12. Of course, actually using this needs to have a titanic cost factor built in, set to whatever frequency you want this technology to be available.
https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/RTT_Worldgen#Terraforming
Terraforming might also not be the industrial enterprise it's often thought of with atmosphere processors or 'ice bombs', but a bioengineering one.
PBS EONS has this series, relevant ones are fungi breaking up rocks to provide mineral-rich soils, our planet being purple on land and rust red oceans (although not at the same time), and of course the great oxygenation event. Terraforming might be more about dropping tons of 'our' microbes and seeding fungi onto a methane planet or the like.
Eons Oxygenation-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qERdL8uHSgI
Eons Fungi-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G64DagHuOg
Eons Purple Earth-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIA-k_bBcL0
Now then, another item to consider- whether the mechanism is bioindustrial or raw industrial might, changing the atmosphere and crowding out the local biosphere means essentially destroying an entire line of evolutionary development- biocide on a planetary scale.
A huge bioethics question, and may again explain the 'weird' UWPs out there, with terraforming only undertaken on sterile planets.
IMTU the pharmabanks would be horrified at destroying a biosphere, which is a huge goldmine of templates for bioproducts and processes. ESPECIALLY if it's a new combination of DNA locally generated or seeded by a previously unknown civilization.
My favorite worldgen rules has a rule on terraforming- I'm not comfortable with TL10 being the benchmark although it certainly fits in well with the Imperium game tech, I'd think a bit further along, TL12. Of course, actually using this needs to have a titanic cost factor built in, set to whatever frequency you want this technology to be available.
https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/RTT_Worldgen#Terraforming
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I wouldn't think the Imperium cares a wit about terraforming, or it's costs. It's not as if the Imperium would be paying for it anyway.
Population pressure doesn't seem high enough, galaxy wide, to really even want to explore it. Travel is so "cheap", it's simply easier to pack up and move out to someplace "better".
No doubt there may be isolate experiments, but those would probably be at a mega-corporate level. "If we terraform world X, it'll be cheaper in the long run than having everyone do mining in environment suits" or some other profit motive.
Finally, of course, terraforming is likely not really specifically relevant to a campaign, as the process tends to be quite long -- well outside the scope of not just a campaign but perhaps even the characters lives.
It could be an interesting bit of background material for an adventure, but then you hardly need rules for that. Just pain a convincing, wafer thin backdrop and let the party loose.
Population pressure doesn't seem high enough, galaxy wide, to really even want to explore it. Travel is so "cheap", it's simply easier to pack up and move out to someplace "better".
No doubt there may be isolate experiments, but those would probably be at a mega-corporate level. "If we terraform world X, it'll be cheaper in the long run than having everyone do mining in environment suits" or some other profit motive.
Finally, of course, terraforming is likely not really specifically relevant to a campaign, as the process tends to be quite long -- well outside the scope of not just a campaign but perhaps even the characters lives.
It could be an interesting bit of background material for an adventure, but then you hardly need rules for that. Just pain a convincing, wafer thin backdrop and let the party loose.
I think, if terraforming is economically viable at all, then there would be fewer non-terrestrial planets in the explored universe. Why live on a dusty rock collecting water out of the atmosphere and growing algae in vats, when you could terraform and have lakes and forests and fields?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Good point.
Since you can build an O'Neil station for a fraction of the cost and time involved in terraforming, the inside of which is set up with forests, farmland, animals etc just like an ideal earth like environment - we could build them now given sufficient investment and political will - then space based stations would be more environmentally friendly than the sub-prime rockballs.
With TL9 technology they would be trivial engineering challenges.
With mastery of cheap fusion power and artificial gravity then hollowing out caverns on moons and dwarf planets provide the next tier of settlement.
At some point, possibly as early as TL11 to preserve the Imperium tie in, terraforming planets may be easier thanks to advances in geneering microbes (hmm - wonder why no one has weaponised the microbes... plot seed).
Star Trek, Wrath of Khan, Genesis Project.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
While I am not sure about the Imperium, the Ancients clearly did terraforming. I have a planet in a novel I am working on that was terraformed by the Ancients to resemble the North America of 300,000 years ago. I chose that because I have good data on climate and wildlife at that time. Still working on the rest of the planet, as the colony is located on what is the east coast of the North America continent clone, in an area approximating southern North Carolina. The Ice Age is running full blast, and there are Dire Wolves still running around out in the west.
Still working on something for Australia, as that has some of the odder critters. Wombats the size of cattle should be impressive eaters.
No, I have not had the colony or the Scouts who are sheltering the planet discover the monitoring sites, which Grandfather apparently has forgotten about. The Scouts are thinking of using the Australian continent clone as a training site, given the aridity of the center of the continent. I do have some very good accounts of the early Australian explorers there, a fair number of whom died or simply disappeared into the bush.
Still working on something for Australia, as that has some of the odder critters. Wombats the size of cattle should be impressive eaters.
No, I have not had the colony or the Scouts who are sheltering the planet discover the monitoring sites, which Grandfather apparently has forgotten about. The Scouts are thinking of using the Australian continent clone as a training site, given the aridity of the center of the continent. I do have some very good accounts of the early Australian explorers there, a fair number of whom died or simply disappeared into the bush.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
Terraforming in Traveller
For those interested in long-term changes to planets, the following is a system you can apply for terraforming them that uses the existing UWP characteristics.
Start with the base values of the world. What you will be doing is altering these up or down. Each value may be altered by one (1) point at a time using the tables below.
The three characteristics that can normally be altered are atmosphere, hydrographics, and a broad category explained below called other.
There are some rules about the order values have to be altered in some cases. These are:
1. The world size must be 1 or greater to have an atmosphere. The atmosphere cannot be greater than planet size by more than 5. Exception: Shell world (see below)
2. The world must be size 2 or greater to have hydrographics. The atmosphere must be 3 or more.
3. Size cannot be altered with extant game level technologies. TL 16 and up can attempt to alter a planet’s size.
Only one characteristic of the planet may be changed at a time. At TL 16 or above two characteristics may be changed at a time. In all cases, the original UWP profile is used as the baseline for changes.
The time period per attempt is 10 standard years.
The table below gives the base values for success. Roll 2D6. The resulting value, with modifiers has to exceed the value on this table for the terraforming attempt to be successful.
Change from base value Roll needed
1______________________ 6
2______________________ 9
3______________________ 12
4______________________ 15
5______________________ 18
6______________________ 21
7______________________ 27
8______________________ 35
Note, changes of more than 3 to a world’s UWP are not possible without modifiers. The change can be to increase or decrease the base value. The base value is always used to determine the difference.
Modifiers:
Persistence: For each 10 attempts +1
Tech Level Modifier
0-3_______-12
4-7_______-8
8-9_______-4
A-B_______-2
C-E_______+1
F_________+2
G_________+4
H_________+6
I__________+9
Population Modifier
6-7______+1
8 _______+2
9_______+3
A _______+4
Economic impact on the economy of terraforming. A planet can deliberately choose to put more economic effort into terraforming at the expense of the economy in general. The baseline assumes that no major impact is made to other portions of the economy when doing terraforming.
If a planet chooses “some impact” a +2 modifier is given. The population must be greater than 5 to choose this. This results in the planet’s economic situation becoming the equivalent of an amber zone and should be treated that way for purposes of trade. This reflects the local economy putting more resources into terraforming.
If a planet chooses “Major impact” a +4 modifier is given. The population must be greater than 5 and the government cannot be types 0,2,4, or 7. The world is now treated as equivalent to a red zone for trade. That is, the maximum amount of local economic effort is being put into terraforming and there’s nothing left to trade on.
Other changes that can be made (optional):
These changes can only be made by TL 9 and above. Anything below that, and they cannot be done.
Terraforming can also change the following characteristics of the planet:
Magnetosphere: That is, the magnetic field of the planet. For each attempted 10% change this counts as 1 one change from the base value.
Sunlight: To increase or decrease the amount of sunlight on a planet by 10% represents a change of 1 from the base value.
Gravity: To change the gravity of the planet by 10% using artificial means represents a change of 1 from the base value.
Size: To change the size of a planet by 1 the base size is the change point. Example: A size 3 planet requires a roll of 12. TL has to be equal or greater than 16.
Changing the orbit of the world (eccentricity and/or distance) by 5% represents a change of 1 from the base value. In addition, the size of the world is considered the difficulty level. That is, if the world is size 4 the difficulty base is 4 needing a base roll of 15.
Adding or removing a satellite: The base difficulty is the satellite size. Sizes S, 0, and 1 use 1. This is really little different than moving a large asteroid to be used as a ship, only it is assumed to take more time as the movement rate is lower. For satellites larger than 0, there must be an asteroid belt present. For satellites size 2 or greater, there has to be an existing one in the system for use. Note: It is possible for TL 16+ to make a satellite per the world size change rule.
Shell worlds. These are possible at higher tech levels. There are two versions: The first is hollowing out the existing world and building a biosphere within the shell. The second type is encasing an existing planet with a mini-Dyson sphere. Starting tech level is 16 and the difficulty of doing either is considered a shift of 6. To do a hollow world starts at TL 15. Dyson shell worlds start at TL 18.
Special cases for atmospheres:
Because the tables for atmospheres above 9 are specialized, the following are necessary:
An A atmosphere changes to a 9, a difference of 1.
B and C atmospheres change to an A, a difference of 1
D atmospheres change to a 9, a difference of 1. They are treated as an A (10) for the starting point.
E and F atmospheres change to a 5, a difference of 1. Once converted to a 5 their base value is considered a 4.
For those interested in long-term changes to planets, the following is a system you can apply for terraforming them that uses the existing UWP characteristics.
Start with the base values of the world. What you will be doing is altering these up or down. Each value may be altered by one (1) point at a time using the tables below.
The three characteristics that can normally be altered are atmosphere, hydrographics, and a broad category explained below called other.
There are some rules about the order values have to be altered in some cases. These are:
1. The world size must be 1 or greater to have an atmosphere. The atmosphere cannot be greater than planet size by more than 5. Exception: Shell world (see below)
2. The world must be size 2 or greater to have hydrographics. The atmosphere must be 3 or more.
3. Size cannot be altered with extant game level technologies. TL 16 and up can attempt to alter a planet’s size.
Only one characteristic of the planet may be changed at a time. At TL 16 or above two characteristics may be changed at a time. In all cases, the original UWP profile is used as the baseline for changes.
The time period per attempt is 10 standard years.
The table below gives the base values for success. Roll 2D6. The resulting value, with modifiers has to exceed the value on this table for the terraforming attempt to be successful.
Change from base value Roll needed
1______________________ 6
2______________________ 9
3______________________ 12
4______________________ 15
5______________________ 18
6______________________ 21
7______________________ 27
8______________________ 35
Note, changes of more than 3 to a world’s UWP are not possible without modifiers. The change can be to increase or decrease the base value. The base value is always used to determine the difference.
Modifiers:
Persistence: For each 10 attempts +1
Tech Level Modifier
0-3_______-12
4-7_______-8
8-9_______-4
A-B_______-2
C-E_______+1
F_________+2
G_________+4
H_________+6
I__________+9
Population Modifier
6-7______+1
8 _______+2
9_______+3
A _______+4
Economic impact on the economy of terraforming. A planet can deliberately choose to put more economic effort into terraforming at the expense of the economy in general. The baseline assumes that no major impact is made to other portions of the economy when doing terraforming.
If a planet chooses “some impact” a +2 modifier is given. The population must be greater than 5 to choose this. This results in the planet’s economic situation becoming the equivalent of an amber zone and should be treated that way for purposes of trade. This reflects the local economy putting more resources into terraforming.
If a planet chooses “Major impact” a +4 modifier is given. The population must be greater than 5 and the government cannot be types 0,2,4, or 7. The world is now treated as equivalent to a red zone for trade. That is, the maximum amount of local economic effort is being put into terraforming and there’s nothing left to trade on.
Other changes that can be made (optional):
These changes can only be made by TL 9 and above. Anything below that, and they cannot be done.
Terraforming can also change the following characteristics of the planet:
Magnetosphere: That is, the magnetic field of the planet. For each attempted 10% change this counts as 1 one change from the base value.
Sunlight: To increase or decrease the amount of sunlight on a planet by 10% represents a change of 1 from the base value.
Gravity: To change the gravity of the planet by 10% using artificial means represents a change of 1 from the base value.
Size: To change the size of a planet by 1 the base size is the change point. Example: A size 3 planet requires a roll of 12. TL has to be equal or greater than 16.
Changing the orbit of the world (eccentricity and/or distance) by 5% represents a change of 1 from the base value. In addition, the size of the world is considered the difficulty level. That is, if the world is size 4 the difficulty base is 4 needing a base roll of 15.
Adding or removing a satellite: The base difficulty is the satellite size. Sizes S, 0, and 1 use 1. This is really little different than moving a large asteroid to be used as a ship, only it is assumed to take more time as the movement rate is lower. For satellites larger than 0, there must be an asteroid belt present. For satellites size 2 or greater, there has to be an existing one in the system for use. Note: It is possible for TL 16+ to make a satellite per the world size change rule.
Shell worlds. These are possible at higher tech levels. There are two versions: The first is hollowing out the existing world and building a biosphere within the shell. The second type is encasing an existing planet with a mini-Dyson sphere. Starting tech level is 16 and the difficulty of doing either is considered a shift of 6. To do a hollow world starts at TL 15. Dyson shell worlds start at TL 18.
Special cases for atmospheres:
Because the tables for atmospheres above 9 are specialized, the following are necessary:
An A atmosphere changes to a 9, a difference of 1.
B and C atmospheres change to an A, a difference of 1
D atmospheres change to a 9, a difference of 1. They are treated as an A (10) for the starting point.
E and F atmospheres change to a 5, a difference of 1. Once converted to a 5 their base value is considered a 4.
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Is the novel set in your Traveller setting?
And is this planet a clone of Earth essentially?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Actually, it is the planet Ficant in the Spinward Marches with a couple of modifications. It is not in the Out Rim. I have a couple of chapters done, and also have the final chapter roughed out so that I know where I am going.
It is basically a clone of Earth, that I envision the Ancients setting up, to see how life would develop without Man around. The planet is in what you could call a recurring Ice Age, with the ice sheets expanding and contracting on about a 50,000 year cycle.
The colony was founded by the crew of a Solomani Exploration Ship, somewhat like the Leviathan, as the result of the most spectacular mis-jump on record, going clear from near the Out Rim to the Spinward Marches. The crew was fairly large, and had both men and women onboard. The geneaology of every person has been very carefully kept track of to avoid inbreeding, and the colonists have developed by clans based on the ship department they were in. One of the characters in the novel is the Chaplain, who doubles as group historian as well as spiritual advisor and counselor. The IISS is sheltering the colony out of the camaraderie of fellow Scouts, and also for the use as both a training base and a possible retirement area. There is a lot of unoccupied area on the planet.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
An example:
We start with a world with a UWP C300358-A
Starting by raising the atmosphere. To go to 1 we need to get a 6 on 2D6 (with modifiers).
Roll 1 = 6 -2 for TL = 4 fail 10 years
Roll 2 = 11 -2 for TL = 9 success UWP is now C310358-A 20 years have elapsed.
We'll raise atmosphere again to 2. We need a 9+ now.
Rolling 10 times, we finally get an 11 -2 for TL = 9 success. UWP is C320358-A. Elapsed time is 120 years total.
In order to get hydrographics up, we'll try for a third atmosphere raise. We need a 12+ now.
After 45 rolls, we get an 11. -2 for TL, but +4 for persistence. The atmosphere is now 3 and the UWP is C330358-A. 570 years have elapsed since we started.
Now we'll go for water. To get a 1 we need a 6+.
This takes 3 rolls to get an 11. Water is now 1 and the UWP is C331358-A. 600 years have elapsed.
The TL and Pop are simply too low to make terraforming a reasonable proposition. We improved the planet, but it took six centuries to do it.
Example 2
UWP = B8A1659-F
Now we have a good TL and some serious population to work with. Again, we start with atmosphere to fix that.
Atmosphere -1 requires a 6 for success.
We roll a 4. +1 for pop, +2 for TL. Success. UWP = B891659-F
We'll get rid of that taint in the atmosphere next lowering the value again. We need a 9+
The roll is 7. +1 pop, +2 TL. Success. UWP is now B881659-F. Looking good.
Now water. Up one needs a 6.
The roll is an 11 and we succeed again. The UWP is B882659-F
Let's keep going on getting some oceans. Now we need a 9+
Roll one is a 5. +1 pop, +2 tech = 8. Failure.
Roll two is a 10. Success. The UWP is now B883659-F
This time it took us only 50 years to terraform the planet into something reasonably habitable.
:coffeesip:
We start with a world with a UWP C300358-A
Starting by raising the atmosphere. To go to 1 we need to get a 6 on 2D6 (with modifiers).
Roll 1 = 6 -2 for TL = 4 fail 10 years
Roll 2 = 11 -2 for TL = 9 success UWP is now C310358-A 20 years have elapsed.
We'll raise atmosphere again to 2. We need a 9+ now.
Rolling 10 times, we finally get an 11 -2 for TL = 9 success. UWP is C320358-A. Elapsed time is 120 years total.
In order to get hydrographics up, we'll try for a third atmosphere raise. We need a 12+ now.
After 45 rolls, we get an 11. -2 for TL, but +4 for persistence. The atmosphere is now 3 and the UWP is C330358-A. 570 years have elapsed since we started.
Now we'll go for water. To get a 1 we need a 6+.
This takes 3 rolls to get an 11. Water is now 1 and the UWP is C331358-A. 600 years have elapsed.
The TL and Pop are simply too low to make terraforming a reasonable proposition. We improved the planet, but it took six centuries to do it.
Example 2
UWP = B8A1659-F
Now we have a good TL and some serious population to work with. Again, we start with atmosphere to fix that.
Atmosphere -1 requires a 6 for success.
We roll a 4. +1 for pop, +2 for TL. Success. UWP = B891659-F
We'll get rid of that taint in the atmosphere next lowering the value again. We need a 9+
The roll is 7. +1 pop, +2 TL. Success. UWP is now B881659-F. Looking good.
Now water. Up one needs a 6.
The roll is an 11 and we succeed again. The UWP is B882659-F
Let's keep going on getting some oceans. Now we need a 9+
Roll one is a 5. +1 pop, +2 tech = 8. Failure.
Roll two is a 10. Success. The UWP is now B883659-F
This time it took us only 50 years to terraform the planet into something reasonably habitable.
:coffeesip:
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Enoki, you need costs IMO.
Probably a lot of abandoned projects due to economics rather then ability.
Another OTU impact or similar ATU situations- Core Worlds areas have had the 100s or 1000s of years to makeover their planets, and the stability of the First Imperium to actually execute it. Therefore they could have a lot more dense population given fully populated systems then 'just' all those megabillion primary planets indicate.
Probably a lot of abandoned projects due to economics rather then ability.
Another OTU impact or similar ATU situations- Core Worlds areas have had the 100s or 1000s of years to makeover their planets, and the stability of the First Imperium to actually execute it. Therefore they could have a lot more dense population given fully populated systems then 'just' all those megabillion primary planets indicate.
