Terran Confederation vs. Rule of Man Borders

[Garnfellow]

I was comparing a couple of different historical maps:

Interesting that the spinward, rimward, and trailing borders of the Terran Confederation deflate like a balloon between the earlier and the later map.

So what's going here? Is one of the maps in error? Did these Confederation territories refuse to join the Second Imperium? ("We just fought like hell against these Vilani, and now we're going to join them?")

 

[rancke]

My suggestion would be that the first map shows the systems that are legally part of the Terran Confederation and the second map shows the systems that are legally part of the Rule of Man AND self-identify as former Terran Confederation worlds.

Or it's just the views of two different schools of historians.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Likely "Before and After" victory against the Vilani Empire and Estigarribia's Coup. The entity continued to expand and co-mingle with the Vilani Empire right up to its fall (the AM6 map), while the MT map shows the loyalist Solomani (a new term at the time) area of influence within the Rule of Man.

 

[BlackBat242]

Except that the maps have dates on them - and the AM6 map is the earliest map, while the MT map shows the 5 centuries more-recent map.

 

[GypsyComet]

Yes. Before their enemy fell, the TC was expanding at its expense, and the CT map is interpretable as the border on the eve of the decision that triggered Estigarribia's Coup.

After the formation of the Rule of Man, some of that space identified with it, while a small core identified with the growing Solomani movement on Terra. The other border in the MT map is the Rule of Man, not the Ziru Sirka (any more). The areas further Rimward that seem abandoned are simply not claimed by either for one reason or other. There are colonies in what will later become Aslan space, too, but Estigarribia inherited the Vilani borders and was far too busy with those to consider expanding them.

 

[spinwardpirate]

Well, it was a Confederation. It makes sense that some of the confederates didn't want to be part of the Empire.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

the "big confederation" map is due to a historical convention that paints all terran settled worlds as part of the "confederation", even though not all those worlds actually recognised and submitted to the TC. A lot of these worlds made token guestures of submission to the TC and later ROM, but being recent colonies, were suffciently poor that they weren't worth the effort of direct governance, and they posed no real threat to the ROM, so were left alone as "client states", with infrquent visits form their nominal ROM "masters" who would accept a token tribute and leave for another decade or so.

alternatly, the convention counts and world that sent contributions of money and/or ships to the TC to help in the Interstellar Wars as "part" of the TC, even though some of these worlds have starfaring cultures dating back a thousand years before the TC and were never part of the TC or the later ROM.



the "small confederation" map shows those worlds that were formally part of the ROM/TC.

 

[rancke]

The Terran Confederation and the Rule of Man did not exist simulataneously. The Confederation was dissolved when the Rule of Man was declared and its worlds included in the RoM. Hence the puzzle of just what the smaller TC on the second map actually represents. It's not the formal TC, because there was no formal TC. It's not the former TC, because the former TC covered a bigger territory, as shown on the first map.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

the "big confederation" map is due to a historical convention that paints all terran settled worlds as part of the "confederation", even though not all those worlds actually recognised and submitted to the TC.

The problem with that idea is that the big Confederation map explicitly shows Terran colonies beyond the Confederation border. Those colonies are all those little dots in Magyar subsectors B, C, F, and G, as well as elsewhere.

 

[Garnfellow]

Here's my thought:

You had at least two important groups of Terrans during the Interstellar Wars period. One would be the Terrans who embraced the Confederation with its unified world government and their we're all in this together perspective. While the other group would be the emigrees, groups that for cultural or political or religious reasons wanted to hang on to their individual identities and had no interest in giving up their heritage for Anglic lessons and a vote in the united world congress.

The latter group explicitly settled outside the Confederation borders. They didn't care how the Interstellar Wars went.

A subset of the former group, which embraced the Confederation, thought that the best way to ensure the survival of the Terrans was not by fighting the Vilani, but to expand as far and as fast as possible. They planted colonies as quickly as they could wherever the Vilani weren't: to spinward, to trailing, to rimward.

But these Confederation colonists had less than 200 years to explore, settle, and put down roots. By the time most of those new colonies had just started to take shape the Interstellar Wars were over, and the Rule of Man had begun. So the "big border" is really just a paper tiger, more empty space and barely surveyed systems than fully developed, mature colony worlds.

I'm sure plenty of the Confederation colonists had no interest in joining up with the Second Imperium. They stayed right where they were but declared their neutrality after the coup.

But I'm sure plenty more colonists saw much easier pickings on the old Vilani worlds to coreward. Given the choice, would you try to scratch out a meager living on a harsh new world, or would you rather move to an established, comfortable planet where you would become an automatic aristocrat?

So I think what happened was that a lot of the new colonies were abandoned almost overnight, while others simply refused to join the Rule of Man. As a result, the rimward borders collapsed, leaving behind a relatively limited number of worlds that had been settled by Terran Confederation colonists.

 

[GypsyComet]

The later map could simply be mislabeled. Shocking, I know. Also, the Terran Mercantile Community (mentioned in AM6) could fit that map.

 

[Garnfellow]

The later map could simply be mislabeled. Shocking, I know. Also, the Terran Mercantile Community (mentioned in AM6) could fit that map.

A mislabel is the easiest answer, for sure. I was curious if this has been kicked around before.

 

[Garnfellow]

You know, looking some more at that big border map of the Confederation makes it even harder to reconcile. Take Magyar, for example. There's no easy way for the Terrans to get that far in the time allotted.

The map is dated -2204; Terrans develop J-2 in -2398. That's a little less than 200 years to plant the flag 50 parsecs spinward. It's not inconceivable, for sure, if there's only a short delay between development of J-2 prototypes and mass commercial production. AND you have a straight shot from Terra to Magyar.

But in -2398 it's impossible to get from Terra to Magyar using J-2 and not crossing Ziru Sirka space. You just can't get there from here.

The easiest rimward route would involve jumping down to the Near Bootes Cluster, but that isn't discovered until "early in the Rule of Man."

After the Eighth Interstellar War ends in -2284, the Treaty of Ensulur opens up the Rim Main for Terrans to use to get to Magyar, but that leaves only 80 years to settle the sector.

The only thing that makes sense to me was if the Vilani allowed, and maybe even actively encouraged Terran migration spinward, say following the Third Interstellar War. It doesn't sound much like them, because of their penchant for assimilating foreign cultures. But otherwise I would be hard pressed to explain that big Confederation border in -2204.

 

[GypsyComet]

You know, looking some more at that big border map of the Confederation makes it even harder to reconcile. Take Magyar, for example. There's no easy way for the Terrans to get that far in the time allotted.

The very good GURPS Interstellar Wars covers that period, and expands on the idea that the Terrans were dropping packaged colonies as far and as fast as they could get away with between the hot wars. They *did* have the cooperation of some of the local Vilani populations, as well as the Vegans.

 

[rancke]

The later map could simply be mislabeled. Shocking, I know. Also, the Terran Mercantile Community (mentioned in AM6) could fit that map.

You're right, that border could work very nicely for the TMC.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

While doing a bit of Traveller archeology on Leroy Guatney's old site, I found a page wherein Guatney apparently developed a dotmap of rimward sectors showing the specific borders of the Ziru Sirka and the Terran Confederation. Although the map itself appears lost for all time, I was struck by this statement:

These maps do not match those found in the MT Referee's Manual, but those maps were attempts at correcting previous complaints.

If I read this statement right, the contracted TC border map was an intentional retcon of the more expansive border map. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

 

[GypsyComet]

If I read this statement right, the contracted TC border map was an intentional retcon of the more expansive border map. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

No, but that sure sounds like him. Take any assertion he makes that you can find no reasonable outside support for as wishful thinking.