The A2 Cargo Capacity...what gives?

[Supplement Four]

Let's see. 2 floor squares equal 14 cubic meters. The ship has 933 floor squares (466.5 tons), which means it's vol is 6531 cubic meters.

The stats on the ship written on the deck plans say the ship is only 2800 cubic meters.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's see. 2 floor squares equal 14 cubic meters. The ship has 933 floor squares (466.5 tons), which means it's vol is 6531 cubic meters.

The stats on the ship written on the deck plans say the ship is only 2800 cubic meters.

 

[Supplement Four]

Easy fix for the deckplans of the A2...


Each square does not equal 1.5 meters. Each square equals .75 meters (so, four of them, together, equal a large 1.5 m square).

This drops the total interior vol to 233 tons (acceptible as a 200dton ship).

Fuel tankage space is: 60 tons (fitting with the 61 ton number).

Cargo space is: [(11 x 16) / 4] = 44 tons.


Now, that's not a very economical ship, but using a .75 meter grid will make the ship in Sup 7 represent the ship that is depicted in the stats.

 

[Supplement Four]

Easy fix for the deckplans of the A2...


Each square does not equal 1.5 meters. Each square equals .75 meters (so, four of them, together, equal a large 1.5 m square).

This drops the total interior vol to 233 tons (acceptible as a 200dton ship).

Fuel tankage space is: 60 tons (fitting with the 61 ton number).

Cargo space is: [(11 x 16) / 4] = 44 tons.


Now, that's not a very economical ship, but using a .75 meter grid will make the ship in Sup 7 represent the ship that is depicted in the stats.

 

[Supplement Four]

It almost seems as if the cargo deck and the fuel tank need to be reversed on these deck plans.

Maybe he height in the fuel tank area is not 3m, because (even using the .75 m sq) I'm getting 60 tons of fuel and only 44 tons of cargo.


GUESS: Part of the cargo area is much higher than 3 meters...in fact it's 6 meters tall. This will make the fuel tank make sense, and we can squeeze 61 tons of cargo out of a 44 ton space.


SUMMARY....

In order to make these deck plans jive with the printed stats on the ship---

1) Use a .75 meter square (instead of a 1.5 meter sq.).

2) Consider that much of the cargo deck is double height (6 meter ceiling), allowing stacking of cargo modules to obtain 61 tons of cargo.

3) And, since the cargo ceiling has been raised, this means that more horizontal space is needed for the 50 tons of fuel--so the horizontal space for the fuel tank is increased to 241 squares, but the ceiling is not 3 meters tall--it's smaller to accomodate the high ceiling in the cargo hold.

 

[Supplement Four]

It almost seems as if the cargo deck and the fuel tank need to be reversed on these deck plans.

Maybe he height in the fuel tank area is not 3m, because (even using the .75 m sq) I'm getting 60 tons of fuel and only 44 tons of cargo.


GUESS: Part of the cargo area is much higher than 3 meters...in fact it's 6 meters tall. This will make the fuel tank make sense, and we can squeeze 61 tons of cargo out of a 44 ton space.


SUMMARY....

In order to make these deck plans jive with the printed stats on the ship---

1) Use a .75 meter square (instead of a 1.5 meter sq.).

2) Consider that much of the cargo deck is double height (6 meter ceiling), allowing stacking of cargo modules to obtain 61 tons of cargo.

3) And, since the cargo ceiling has been raised, this means that more horizontal space is needed for the 50 tons of fuel--so the horizontal space for the fuel tank is increased to 241 squares, but the ceiling is not 3 meters tall--it's smaller to accomodate the high ceiling in the cargo hold.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by WJP:
So...

The problem, really, is the square grid on the deck plans (since the ship can be designed with 61 dtons of cargo using Book 2).

It can be designed that way using first edition Book 2. That was superceded by the second edition of Book 2, which drops the cargo to 46 dtons (or 48 if you keep M1).

Do note that the second edition rules are those that are included in the Deluxe Boxed Set, The Traveller Book, Starter Traveller, and the Classic Traveller Reprints.

So, to make the 61 dtons work, you have to "modify" the rules. Which is perfectly fine as long as you know that you are doing so, and are prepared when someone else points it out.

At least that rules modification has more support to it than 99.9% of all other rules modifications.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by WJP:
So...

The problem, really, is the square grid on the deck plans (since the ship can be designed with 61 dtons of cargo using Book 2).

It can be designed that way using first edition Book 2. That was superceded by the second edition of Book 2, which drops the cargo to 46 dtons (or 48 if you keep M1).

Do note that the second edition rules are those that are included in the Deluxe Boxed Set, The Traveller Book, Starter Traveller, and the Classic Traveller Reprints.

So, to make the 61 dtons work, you have to "modify" the rules. Which is perfectly fine as long as you know that you are doing so, and are prepared when someone else points it out.

At least that rules modification has more support to it than 99.9% of all other rules modifications.

 

[Supplement Four]

I was looking at the staterooms with .75 m squares....that's a cramped ship. We're talking a small submarine here--no high passage state rooms. At 3 squares, we're only talking rooms that are 2.25 m long....hope there are no tall people that need to lay down (maybe the beds lay vertically against the wall with the G-plates tuned so that gravity falls towards the wall next to the bed).


What about this....

What about just making the ship a 400 ton vessel instead of a 200 ton vessel?

That way, we've got 1.5 m squares.

We'd have 88 tons of cargo space (on the deckplan--more if we increased the ceiling height--we sure as heck don't need 120.5 tons of fuel).

We'd use PP D, Jump Drive D, and M Drive B.


Wouldn't that work?

We've got 70.5 tons of space in the fuel tank we can either convert to extra cargo space or use for these bigger drives (I didn't run through the design sequence).

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

I was looking at the staterooms with .75 m squares....that's a cramped ship. We're talking a small submarine here--no high passage state rooms. At 3 squares, we're only talking rooms that are 2.25 m long....hope there are no tall people that need to lay down (maybe the beds lay vertically against the wall with the G-plates tuned so that gravity falls towards the wall next to the bed).


What about this....

What about just making the ship a 400 ton vessel instead of a 200 ton vessel?

That way, we've got 1.5 m squares.

We'd have 88 tons of cargo space (on the deckplan--more if we increased the ceiling height--we sure as heck don't need 120.5 tons of fuel).

We'd use PP D, Jump Drive D, and M Drive B.


Wouldn't that work?

We've got 70.5 tons of space in the fuel tank we can either convert to extra cargo space or use for these bigger drives (I didn't run through the design sequence).

Thoughts?

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking there might have been a typo when the A2 was designed. It's not a 200 ton hull. It's a 400 ton hull.

----> In Sup 7, compare the deckplans for the A2 and the Subsidized Merchant. The A2 is about the same size--not half the size.

----> Counting the squares on the A2 deckplan, I get 120 tons allocated for fuel. Looking at the 400 ton design below, I notice that the fuel requirement is 120 tons (not 50 tons).

----> Counting the squares on the A2 deckplan, I see 88 tons of cargo space. On a 400 ton hull, this is do-able.


============================================
THE A2 FAR TRADER
...as a 400 ton hull
============================================

Engineering Section
-------------------
25 tons....Jump Drive D
13 tons....Power Plant D
05 tons....M Drive C

07 tons....Other Engineering Space
----
50 tons....Total Engineering Section.


Fuel Tankage
------------
40 tons....PP and MD Fuel Tankage
80 tons....Jump Fuel Tankage
----
120 tons...Total Fuel Tankage


Reserved Hull Space
-------------------
20 tons....Bridge
01 tons....Computer 1bis
40 tons....10 Staterooms
02 tons....4 Low Berths
02 tons....2 Fire Control Units
----
65 tons....Total Reserved Hull Space


Cargo Hold
-----------
88 tons....Cargo Capacity


=========
323 tons....Sub Total of Interior Space Used


Space Designated on Deckplan
----------------------------
21 tons....Passenger Common Room
03 tons....Air/Raft Berth
11 tons....Crew Common Room
42 tons....Other used space on deckplan (all other squares).
----
77 tons....Total Other Space used detailed on deckplan.


Total interior space
--------------------
50 tons....Engineering
120 tons...Fuel Tankage
65 tons....Reserved Hull Space
88 tons....Cargo Hold
77 tons....Other detailed Space
----
400 tons

============================================


If you count the squares, the deckplans represent a ship that is about 433 tons. The engineering section (both decks) is bigger than the required 50 tons, and there is some space dedicated to scoops, fuel processor, corridors, ramps, airlocks, etc.

Given the design above, I think the A2 was always meant to be a 400 ton vessel.

It's going to be a 400 ton vessel in my game, anyway, with these stats....


Type A2 Far Trader
400 ton Hull
J-Drive J-2
M-Drive M-1
Computer 1bis
120 tons Fuel
88 tons Cargo Hold

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm thinking there might have been a typo when the A2 was designed. It's not a 200 ton hull. It's a 400 ton hull.

----> In Sup 7, compare the deckplans for the A2 and the Subsidized Merchant. The A2 is about the same size--not half the size.

----> Counting the squares on the A2 deckplan, I get 120 tons allocated for fuel. Looking at the 400 ton design below, I notice that the fuel requirement is 120 tons (not 50 tons).

----> Counting the squares on the A2 deckplan, I see 88 tons of cargo space. On a 400 ton hull, this is do-able.


============================================
THE A2 FAR TRADER
...as a 400 ton hull
============================================

Engineering Section
-------------------
25 tons....Jump Drive D
13 tons....Power Plant D
05 tons....M Drive C

07 tons....Other Engineering Space
----
50 tons....Total Engineering Section.


Fuel Tankage
------------
40 tons....PP and MD Fuel Tankage
80 tons....Jump Fuel Tankage
----
120 tons...Total Fuel Tankage


Reserved Hull Space
-------------------
20 tons....Bridge
01 tons....Computer 1bis
40 tons....10 Staterooms
02 tons....4 Low Berths
02 tons....2 Fire Control Units
----
65 tons....Total Reserved Hull Space


Cargo Hold
-----------
88 tons....Cargo Capacity


=========
323 tons....Sub Total of Interior Space Used


Space Designated on Deckplan
----------------------------
21 tons....Passenger Common Room
03 tons....Air/Raft Berth
11 tons....Crew Common Room
42 tons....Other used space on deckplan (all other squares).
----
77 tons....Total Other Space used detailed on deckplan.


Total interior space
--------------------
50 tons....Engineering
120 tons...Fuel Tankage
65 tons....Reserved Hull Space
88 tons....Cargo Hold
77 tons....Other detailed Space
----
400 tons

============================================


If you count the squares, the deckplans represent a ship that is about 433 tons. The engineering section (both decks) is bigger than the required 50 tons, and there is some space dedicated to scoops, fuel processor, corridors, ramps, airlocks, etc.

Given the design above, I think the A2 was always meant to be a 400 ton vessel.

It's going to be a 400 ton vessel in my game, anyway, with these stats....


Type A2 Far Trader
400 ton Hull
J-Drive J-2
M-Drive M-1
Computer 1bis
120 tons Fuel
88 tons Cargo Hold

 

[Supplement Four]

Jump Governor?


I notice that the Type A2 mentions it is installed with a Jump Governor?

What's that?

I'm assuming it allows a J-2 ship to make either a J-1 or a J-2 jump (not just a J-2 jump).

Am I mistaken about this?

 

[Supplement Four]

Jump Governor?


I notice that the Type A2 mentions it is installed with a Jump Governor?

What's that?

I'm assuming it allows a J-2 ship to make either a J-1 or a J-2 jump (not just a J-2 jump).

Am I mistaken about this?

 

[Supplement Four]

Max Atmosphere?


Another question...

I see, on TAS Form 3 - Ship's Papers, there is a blank for "Max Atmosphere".

What are they asking for in that blank? What am I supposed to record there?

 

[Supplement Four]

Max Atmosphere?


Another question...

I see, on TAS Form 3 - Ship's Papers, there is a blank for "Max Atmosphere".

What are they asking for in that blank? What am I supposed to record there?

 

[mike wightman]

The jump governor was introduced in High Guard first edition to allow LBB2 first edition ships to use less fuel if they jumped less than their maximum jump distance.

In LBB2 first edition a jump 3 ship uses all of its fuel - all 30% of hull volume - even if only jumping 1 parsec.
In High Guard first edition the rule was changed so that ships could use only the fuel needed to make the jump.
The jump governor was included to give this ability to LBB2 ships. It costs MCr0.3 and takes up 1ton.

Revised CT just dropped the idea of a jump governor all together and went with the High Guard fuel use rule.

 

[mike wightman]

The jump governor was introduced in High Guard first edition to allow LBB2 first edition ships to use less fuel if they jumped less than their maximum jump distance.

In LBB2 first edition a jump 3 ship uses all of its fuel - all 30% of hull volume - even if only jumping 1 parsec.
In High Guard first edition the rule was changed so that ships could use only the fuel needed to make the jump.
The jump governor was included to give this ability to LBB2 ships. It costs MCr0.3 and takes up 1ton.

Revised CT just dropped the idea of a jump governor all together and went with the High Guard fuel use rule.

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

What about max atmosphere? I haven't seen that in CT before (MT, yes, but not CT).

How do you figure a max atmosphere in CT terms?

 

[Supplement Four]

Sig,

What about max atmosphere? I haven't seen that in CT before (MT, yes, but not CT).

How do you figure a max atmosphere in CT terms?