Hi Aramis,
I have seen alot of product go through the past little while. I don't know about the industry outside southern ontario, but, I do have direct dealings with the owners of 7 different FLGS.
Due to my background, I have been helping them with thier accounting/ordering process in addition to thier moving alot of thier business from retail only to centralized low cost warhousing combined with retail and online offerings.
I also produce custom molds for 25mm and 28mm products. Currently it is one off productions as per customer specifications, but, once my pressure chamber is finished, I will be producing enough production molds to make a more generic offering.
The constant term the different owners have constantly brought forward is product movement and just in time ordering. Large rpg books are not thier favorite items, as they can sell wooden box sets of risk at a higher markup and they take less retail space.(just an example, alot of the information would require an sql dump of thier sales figures and breaking alot of personal assurances).
They do not care about form factor. The issue they have is total volume sold. The only time form factor becomes an issue is when the product is expected to sit on the shelves for long periods of time and needs to be shifted. That, combined with the fear of the producers coming up with new versions that effectivly kills the value of thier inventory.
The one thing about retailers is that, like all trades, they are not run by the same level of expertise. Alot of game stores are run by current or ex-gamers. If you did cost-roi studies that disagreed with thier beliefs, they would stick with thier beliefs, as seen by the number of flgs's that have gone backrupt.
There are three flgs's on the main drag of Toronto - yonge street. Each one is walking distance from each other. Each one carries the same product line as the others. Only one actually carries only new product. Two of them buy out failed stores or product not moving at the wholesalers.
Of the three, one is thriving, one survives due to its low rent (if you don't know where it is, you will not find it) and the rents computer time to support its overhead.
The thriving store, is the smallest of the lot. It is a converted convience store. It has the lowest prices of the three, the highest stock turnover and the most loyal customer base.
They do not care about the form factor of the products. Thier book shelves are designed to hold any form factor of product, from small books to overlarge miniature game boxes (Pax imperica fits with lots of room left over). They have a large eclectic collection of different sized products, which they move quickly.
I sat with the owner and talked about traveller. (He has a large collection of castle walls and flooring he bought from me for his own collection). His viewpoint, if people want it, he will sell it. As long as the money is there, he does not care how it looks. He does care about how much it costs because with current markups, a product sitting on the shelves can chew up other profits due to depreciation of the capital alone.
Unfortunately, alot of the current content producers do not understand what the current gamer wants. Gamers want to play games. Some people want a quick, easy game. Some of those, get bored with the base game and want more and more detail. Finally the game becomes so detailed that it is no longer fun. The master of orion computer game is a perfect example of this. The first game had very poor graphics, simple game mechanics and was the prime reason alot of people droped a grade or two in most school subjects. It sold very well.
Master of Orion II, was amazing, the graphics where very poor in comparison to comparitive games. It's gameplay was good, it was a very mature product (with a few bugs that the patches fixed). Master of Orion III had alot of people waiting for it. The developers put in everything everyone asked for and it was exactly what everyone told the developers they wanted. It was a total flop. It had excelent graphics, perfect sound, good animation, realtime combat, multiple levels of ai, everything. The game was crap.
The developers swore up and down that they made exactly what the customer wanted because everytime they went to game conventions or gaming stores, they where told the same thing over and over again.
They forgot that the people who go to the conventions or hang out in game stores are the fringe of the market.
If you can produce a product that is in a package that will sell at wallmart, now you have made a viable game.
I first bought D&D in a kmart, (sorta like wallmart) back in the 70's. Traveller was in the game section of sears.
As game stores that catered to our industry grew in volume, the industry started to stabalise and then later, shrink.
I don't know who Mal is, but, by his attitude, writing style, and approach to the industry, some things are starting to come to light.
1.) He does not like to use his real name, nor does he give any details about himself. This either shows he is insecure about his position, or he has acted so poorly in the past that he has been baned at sometime.
2.) His writting style is far better than mine, but, his logic is not investigative. So I would say he is in some sort of educated field, but not a problem solving field, probly some form of clerical/mechanical style of field such as Dentistry, Pharmacy, Astronomy etc., but not a field such as computers, staticien or financial analysis. I say this because he appears to consider himself very well educated but, his method of reasoning and argument is not as well developed as your own.
3.) He has probly written for some form of gaming magazine or worked with some aspect of the rpg industry, but, he does not run his own business and has not had dealings with managing a large staff.
I find his statements that I read in the past to be insulting at the best of times, but mostly to himself.
I truly feel sorry for him, but I hope he finds the personal security and self worth to understand that if someone holds a different opinion, it is not a personal attack.
best regards
Dalton
Originally posted by Aramis:
5x8.5's don't sell all that well: Hogwash. 9LG, and several other companies seem to be making plenty of them. Despite low production values. Retailers who don't sell manga dislike them, but standard manga shelving holds them nicely.
Not that I'd want a 5x8... I'd rater see 6x9: Trade size. WWG uses a lot of these. AEG's done a few, too. Sorcerer likewise is this size.
And "Good Production Values" doesn't equate to "Glossy Color Splats."
But, Dalton, Mal is right that many retailers have complained about non-8x11-9x12 sized books (the latter being typical hardcovers).
Mal is wrong in claiming players want gloss and color. Players are divided amongst that and the "Functional but clear" motifs. Hackmaster is doing fine with just B&W line art, as is KAMB. For that matter, T&T is still B&W , never has been other...
But many of the newer d20 games are aimed not at gamers, but at collectors. Trek, SG1, Buffy, Serenity: These are clearly NOT aimed at functionalist gamers, but for the crossover potential collector sales. Most people I know who have bought them have no intent to play them; some are not even gamers.
Games aimed at hard-core gamers tend to be FAR less flashy... including GURPS supplements.
