CT Only: The Cost of TL 15

[Supplement Four]

OK, take this situation. You are the manager of the Class A Starport on Aramis, in the Spinward Marches. Your starport is rated for starship construction. The local manufacturing is rated at TL 11, so TL 11 starships can be built.

But, the Class A Starport must also be equipped for annual maintenance and overhaul of TL 15 vessels.

So...those parts must be shipped in from a world where they can be manufactured.

The closest place to ship in those parts are from TL 15 Rhylanor. And, business must be booming for Rhylanor because it is one of the few TL 15 worlds in a large area.

It is ten weeks standard journey from Aramis to Rhylanor, one way (providing a week in each port).

This has got to boost the cost of high tech items exported to other worlds, unless the Imperium imposes some sort of subsidized trading.

 

[Fovean]

Well, Subsidized Merchants (and Liners) go all the way back to CT... that’s actually a pretty good reason for those subbies to plying the space lanes. I presume the subsidies are at the Imperial level, with the various subsector Nobles tasked with keeping routes like you mentioned open and busy.

I don’t recall the specific costs in CT but in MgT higher tech items are always more expensive than the TL of introduction, including ship components. So it kind of works out if you look at it that way.

I suppose you could tack on a premium for the distance though, say 10% per four parsecs? So you’d be looking at a 25% increase in cost for the Rhylanor-Aramis run.

 

[mike wightman]

There is a TL15 IN base, buy your spares from their makers...

 

[kilemall]

I did the math for shipping starship drives, since they are some of the most expensive per ton items outside of radioactives and computers, they 'travel well' in that the shipping per ton per parsec works out to a small percentage of their cost.


So let's say you have a drive/plant that costs out to MCr1 per ton. Then figure say Cr100000 to ship per ton 100 parsecs- that's just 10% of the item cost. Historically, entire industries, cities and riches have been built on far higher shipping costs.


To me this translates to starship drives actually being the realm of IND planets, that can get those extra -10 to -40% type discounts to build, and so undercut even local manufacture for 50-100+ parsecs around.


So for your starport operator, he's probably stocking a complete set of A-B-C LBB2 drives from some an IND world in the sector, stocks a lot of common TL12+ 'custom' parts in use in the subsector, builds hulls and cheaper ACS locally on the TL11 base tech, but is pressed hard to build LBB5 TL15 ships custom.


In fact this just came to mind, maybe all those crazy build times for the bigger ships is less literal 'it takes this much time cause we haven't discovered mass production and build ships by hand', and more 'it takes that long for a custom drive to be ordered, get built/found in the supply chain, and shipped here for assembly'.

 

[Enoki]

The other thing to consider here is that there is likely differing quality drives and other parts available on the market in general.

That is, you can buy the high quality drive from a big name manufacturer that is "bullet proof" and works great for years, or the OEM version that is made with recycled nuclear reactor waste that will work for a bit but costs a fraction of the high quality part.

I'd think that would factor into the equation as well. You can get the OEM drive in your backwater location but at the cost of the high quality one they don't carry in stock. It'll get you going to somewhere you can then get it fixed or replaced with a good unit.

 

[whartung]

If you're building a ship, importing the drive wholesale works fine. You have plenty of lead time to get the specs right, get it built, and have it shipped to the shipyard. Since it's takes months and months to build the ship, lots of lead time to get the drive.

But if you're simply repairing the ship, I think it's fair that you only need the parts for an overhaul.

If a TL15 ship shows up at a TL12 A Starport, with a completely shot J drive, well, then mail order here we come. Have to "send out" for the drive and have it delivered.

But if it just needs a going over with some in stock parts and spares, then no problem.

TL15 muffler bearings and flange gaskets store the same as the TL12 ones. Just need a different sticker on the box.

And, even then, there's likely a whole lot of TL12 tech components in a TL15 drive.

 

[nobby-w]

Not all components of a TL15 ship are necessarily TL15, and not all regions necessarily see TL15 ships in quantity. Not all TL15 class-A shipyards necessarily build all-TL15 ships.

A few thoughts:

A big budget outfit like the Imperial Navy has its own logistics so they can build their TL15 parts wherever they can and ship them to a naval depot. Generally military organisations maintain their own logistics and parts supply arrangements anyway.

In a very developed region like the Imperial core you might see lots of (say) TL13-15 commercial shipping as most worlds have the technology to maintain the equipment. This might be less prevalent in frontier regions like the Spinward Marches, where the infrastructure to maintain this sort of kit is less commonly available.

While there are shipyards capable of fabricating TL15 ships in the Spinward Marches, most customers in the region are going to be more interested in ships that can be maintained locally. Thus, you might expect to see a preponderance of (say) TL11-13 designs in use in that region, even if they are built in shipyards that are nominally capable of fabricating to TL15. While there are TL15 shipyards on (say) Rhylanor, Glisten and Mora, true TL15 logistics may be sparse enough in the region that they really only sell TL15 kit to the imperials and some deep-pocketed megacorps with specific requirements. Much of their output might be more like TL12-13 designs that can actually sell into the local market.

A TL12 shipyard can repair a TL15 ship if it has access to a supply of parts and the repair documentation, although it might have trouble with (say) severe battle damage. Depending on the manufacturer's distribution network, there might be logistics that can get the parts from a warehouse in the same subsector, or the part might have to be built to order in a factory in the next sector. The closer the logistics are to the former situation, the more likely commercial carriers are to be comfortable purchasing ships from the manufacturer.

One house rule I operated in a couple of cases where it mattered was that a shipyard couldn't fabricate components at a tech level, but could potentially fit those components to an otherwise lower-tech ship. Another similar house rule I operated in those cases is that a class-A starport implied a facility capable of manufacturing jump drives, but a class-B starport could potentially fabricate hulls incorporating jump drives built elsewhere.

TL;DR - In a frontier region I would expect the only folks operating high tech ships would be the navy or outfits capable of running their own logistics. Most folks would run ships that could be kept going with locally available resources.

 

[mike wightman]

The Aramis subsector is a frontier of the Marches, there are plenty of TL15 ships operating within that subsector - see The Traveller Adventure.
I doubt they go all the way back to the nearest TL15 world for their annual maintainance when the rules specifically state any annual maintainance is done at any TL A or B starport with no mention of world TL at all in LBB2.

 

[nobby-w]

The Aramis subsector is a frontier of the Marches, there are plenty of TL15 ships operating within that subsector - see The Traveller Adventure.
I doubt they go all the way back to the nearest TL15 world for their annual maintainance when the rules specifically state any annual maintainance is done at any TL A or B starport with no mention of world TL at all in LBB2.

All of the TL15 ships specifically mentioned in the TA are run by megacorps or Imperial courier agencies masquerading as corps. Not all of the ships in the section are intrinsically TL15 either - only two of the ships would require TL15 tech under either the Book 2 or Book 5 rules. The TA doesn't really say anything about logistics or maintenance of the craft, though.

 

[mike wightman]

Oberlindes says hi

While not TL15 the typical Oberlindes ship example has TL13 drives, where in the Aramis subsector are they maintained?

It also says Oberlndes operates 5000t ships in Aramis, they have to be TL15 by the LBB2/3 rules, the same as the Hercules class.

 

[nobby-w]

Oberlindes says hi

The CT class is J3, 1G. The Emissary is an AHL class cruiser they finagled from the Imperium - still a warship built by a power with the dosh to run their own logistics. The TA makes no representations about how much of the time they can actually keep it going.

 

[mike wightman]

Sorry that last post was sent by mistake - I was typing a longer reply with that as the placeholder and something weird happened?
I apologise for its snarkyness and now don't know whether to edit it or make a new post...

I was going to say that the Tukera and Akerut ships still require annual maintainance and they are a long way from a TL15 world. The LBB2 rules as written do not require anything more than a type A or B starport for annual maintainance, there is not TL proviso.

 

[nobby-w]

Sorry that last post was sent by mistake - I was typing a longer reply with that as the placeholder and something weird happened?
I apologise for its snarkyness and now don't know whether to edit it or make a new post...

I've had COTI swallow posts before as well. No worries. If you ever have occasion to descend down south into the fleshpots of the Weald, look me up for a pint.

 

[Carlobrand]

Aramis actually has it good. It's only 8 parsecs from Rhylanor. Shipping costs per canon are Cr1,000/"ton"/jump, figure 6 jumps at most, add either Cr0.44/liter or Cr6/kg depending on how you interpret that "ton". And ...

Not all components of a TL15 ship are necessarily TL15, and not all regions necessarily see TL15 ships in quantity. Not all TL15 class-A shipyards necessarily build all-TL15 ships. ...

So, unless the entire "engine block" of that TL-15 power plant needs to be replaced, the only things that need to be shipped around for maintenance are the wear parts inside the plant. We're talking the power plant equivalent of piston rings and such: high tech sensors and computer chips, grav field emitters, magicum deviceum, that kind of stuff. You're adding at worst a few credits per kilogram to parts for a multi-million credit plant, and most of the rest of the ship is stock hardware that can be manufactured, repaired, or maintained locally - assuming Aramis' industrial output can keep up with the starport's demand while meeting local needs.

Manufacture presents a different problem, but not an insurmountable one. You ship in a multimillion-credit power plant for a few thousand credits, most of the rest of the ship is local manufacture. Presumably your profit margin is large enough to absorb that without inconveniencing the stockholders. Really, your only headache is in a place like Jae Tellona or Kinob, where most of your equipment needs to be imported to support the starport.

 

[nobby-w]

[ . . . ]
So, unless the entire "engine block" of that TL-15 power plant needs to be replaced, the only things that need to be shipped around for maintenance are the wear parts inside the plant. We're talking the power plant equivalent of piston rings and such: high tech sensors and computer chips, grav field emitters, magicum deviceum, that kind of stuff.

As an example, in today's world there are a relatively small number of companies who manufacture jet engines. Generally the protocol for maintenance is that various subsystems have rated lifespans between maintenance. Either the subsystem or the whole engine gets pulled and sent back to either the manufacturer or an authorised repair agent for maintenance. The same thing happens if it breaks down in service.

Stocks of spare parts are kept in various warehousing arrangements. In the case of Traveller space, there would be more investment in local or regional parts inventory due to the shipping times.

Some thoughts on interactions with Imperial policy to encourage trade:

In order to facilitate trade, Imperial authorities could have a policy of circulating standard designs - A, B, C etc. class drives and even entire designs for starships, perhaps on a royalty-free or subsidised basis. Any vendor capable of manfuacturing the drives could produce the standard drives on very favourable licensing terms from the Imperial authorities, encouraging the availability of standard, interchangeable components.

This would ensure that the majority of ships using those drives would have access to parts supply. Ships using non-standard components would be dependent on whatever arrangements were available from the manufacturer.

 

[coliver988]

It may have been mentioned in this thread (I scrolled down the current page & did not see if but it may have been earlier or another thread entirely) but shipping the parts needed for maintenance would help explain subsidized merchants as well. The government pays to make sure the various class A/B ports have the parts they need to keep shipping moving. A smaller up-front cost to support larger financial gains later.

I do like where this thread has lead: I now have haulers moving starship parts that cannot be manufactured locally to ports all over. This also means that there are storage areas full of high tech drive and ship components in various places. Just sayin'...

 

[mike wightman]

Something that is often forgotten.

Type B starports include spaceship building facilities. A space ship is any vessel without a jump drive.

That means anything from small craft to 5000t type Z maneuver drive and power plant.


Within the Imperial setting, and the 1105+ Spinward Marches in particular, that means an lot of TL13-15 stuff making its way from the handful of planets that can manufacture them to the spare part and off the shelf component warehouses of every B and A starport in the Imperial Spinward Marches.

It does go a long way to explaining the trade lanes and routes followed by the megacorp and other large shipping concerns.