The importance of having an Official Traveller Universe

[far-trader]

Did the British Army have the same uniforms for their Australia, India and Canadian troops? (1700's)

(can't find sources at the moment, but... )

Officers. Pretty certain they did. Locals pressed into service, not so sure. I expect a lot if not all the irregulars (if, where, and as such were used) wore no uniform and little insignia. Regulars probably had some common uniform (even if it was simply the Army colours, the British Redcoats of the time for example) and insignia. I'm pretty sure the Redcoats were standard issue actually and at the time comprised the whole (pretty much) of the uniform for the regulars. There may have been some local distinctions. The Sikhs with their turbans for example.

The twist for Traveller is what constitutes Uniform as regards TL inclusions such as armor and environment. Imperial Forces (Army, Navy, Marine, Scout) are raised, trained, and equipped across all TLs from 9 to 15. So while the uniform of (for example) a TL9 IN member and a TL15 IN member may look identical on the surface, each will have very different capabilities (and costs) when it comes to TL inclusion of armor, life support, communications and such.

EDIT: Not an expert either, just an observer interested in history, especially military, for a while.

 

[Allensh]

Did the British Army have the same uniforms for their Australia, India and Canadian troops? (1700's)

To be honest..I don't know Not my area of expertise.

Allen

 

[lucasdigital]

Re: Topic

Personally, I've no interest in Traveller products that are not OTU. I completely agree that without strict adherence to the established canon, things will eventually break down. That said, it can feel constraining, setting games in the 1100s, knowing that PCs are living in the 'end of days'. Traveller savy players would be forgiven for suffering a touch of "Sarah Conner" syndrome.

Wasn't this why T4 went back into the distant past for it's introductory milleu?

This isn't meant as an argument against an iron-clad respect for OTU in future publications, I just wanted to add that the classic Traveller era looks different when you know what's going to happen, and you might be forgiven for establishing an alternate timeline, you know, one where Vulcan..gets..erm. Hmm

Re: Uniforms

I always felt that the Third Imperium was monolithic, in contrast to say the Roman Empire that maintained control of very loosely aligned peoples. Imperial Marines had established uniforms, Imperial Scouts, same coloured overalls all the way across the Imperium. If they're all flying the same Type-S Scout ships, the same Close Escorts, it wouldn't make sense to me that they'd not maintain Uniformity it simpler ways. I'd agree that TL is going to skew things a bit, bit a tunic is a tunic, and there'd still be the same dress uniforms etc. That's my take, and some of my reasoning for it. Of course there always room for exceptions. I've some fantastic books on military uniforms and they're all chock full of colourful variations, even for troops fighting in the same campaign.

 

[beowulf2044]

I'd love to see uniforms, especially a picture of a Scout line-up that included a Virushi and an Ael Yael.

 

[Klaus]

Had a mind to do something like that for the Solomani Confederation for SPL before the fair use stuff was finalised.

Could probably do an Imperial version under the Foreven terms...

The marine corps default seems to be a sort of tan/maroon, yes?

Not much data on the IN or IISS. In terms of 'uniformity', in my head, the scout service might be quite monolithic, in a type-S everywhere, NHS specs kind of way, but the IN would have lots of variety, and the army even more so (given that it's regiments might well be each recruited from an individual world, with all they're own idiosyncracies, like Regina's lift infantry).

Fair amount in the variety in uniforms from the Napoleonic wars. In the British Army alone, there's all those kilts and bearskins for a start. Lots of variety among the French. And then there's the different battle dresses for the various types of units too.

Hmmm. I'd prefer to do it as an interactive work, so that faces and ranks can be customised, but I don't think the license goes for software, does it?

 

[Whipsnade]

The OTU and canon are Traveller's ground state. That makes them vitally important.

As one poster here said, no one really plays in the OTU. We all play in our own TUs because we all make changes no matter how small. All our TUs are derived from the OTU and all refer back to the OTU.

I'd like you to imagine a common X,Y graph. The OTU sits squarely at the origin: 0,0. My TU may be at 3,7 while yours is at 7,-4 and someone else has their TU at -2,-3. The line between each of these TUs and the origin OTU represents the tweaks, changes, and homerules we each use. It's the path we've taken to create our game.

Here's where the OTU becomes vitally important.

If as a GM I announce "Hey, I use psionics this way" and you like my idea, you'll have a very hard time 'porting it into your TU if an origin point did not exist. Because the origin, the OTU, does exist you can figure how my TU differs from the OTU and then use that to figure how you'll need to tweak my idea to fit your TU. Sometimes my idea can fit, sometimes it cannot, but the OTU allows you to make that judegment.

When I begin to publish ideas, when I become a Traveller author, the common origin, the OTU, becomes extremely important. My ideas as an author are meant to be used by as many people as possible. In order for the idea to be used widely, it must be easy to tweak into all our personal TUs. The easiest way for us to tweak an idea for our TU is for all of to begin at the point where we all started tweaking in the first place; the OTU.

Now just what the OTU and canon actually are is quite fuzzy around the edges. The core of both is solid however. We can debate jump masking, for example, but not jump drive.

By having a ground state, a common reference, a touchstone, we can all share ideas from our own TUs more easily with one another. That's the central role of the OTU and that's why it's so very important.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Klaus]

Having worked on a collaborative project for over 3 years (a sector book), that sticks explicitly to OTU 'canon', there's actually very little out there to worry about.

1 week jump, no FTL comms, a few dates, some origin stories and minor details, and that's about it. Just because something has never been mentioned before in the OTU's history does not mean it can't exist. And charted space is big enough for almost anything you want to exist locally.

We were able to stick resolutely to what canon was there, and still do basically whatever we wanted to.

This was after poring over 30 years worth of materials for months to check for discrepancies, and really there was not much to stop us doing whatever we wanted. If you look at all the OTU material printed up until GT, T20, and MGT, you will see the same passages reprinted verbatim in every edition.

It did help that we were working on an area that had not been covered in detail, but we were working with cultures that have been somewhat described, if not as much as the Imperium.

Some things we should remember: the OTU needs to be primarily a place to roleplay in, not a sci-fi milieu building exercise. If the choice is between somewhere cool to play or something that satisfies some arbitrarily strict interpretation of a passage written 30 years ago, then I say the fun thing should be prime.

The OTU is still barely more than a sketch. If we use a helpful zeitgeisty comparison, we know the OTU now about as well as we did the Trek universe just before the TMP came out. The vast majority still remains unwritten.

 

[aramis]

Did the British Army have the same uniforms for their Australia, India and Canadian troops? (1700's)

They had distinctive uniforms for some units' men. UK Officers in the 1700's all wore the same pattern, albeit sometimes in distinctive color (A/NZ/SA/Scotland/Can). Navies didn't even uniform the men at the time; Officers coats were to pattern, but were custom manufacture. The pattern was much the same throughout the UK sphere from 1600 on; the specific details changed over time, and in specific engagements, new patterns hadn't always been purchased by all officers.

By 1830, the UK had a single land forces uniform in several colors, with regional distinctions, and a standard naval uniform for officers, with some fleet distinctions.

 

[Icosahedron]

Are you sure about that? For some people, sure, it’s a turn off. But Traveller is many games in one and I wonder if, for the fan who has been without a group for a while, arguing over canon isn’t one of them. You get a basic idea about the Imperium, someone posts something that contradicts that idea, and it sends you scrabbling through your old Traveller material looking for evidence to refute that post. It can be fun. Over the years it’s boosted my understanding of the OTU, and when I do get to run a campaign that improved knowledge translates into a more confident and competent Referee. Maybe the canon wars are what has kept Traveller alive all these years.

Good point.

Re: Topic

Personally, I've no interest in Traveller products that are not OTU. I completely agree that without strict adherence to the established canon, things will eventually break down. That said, it can feel constraining, setting games in the 1100s, knowing that PCs are living in the 'end of days'. Traveller savy players would be forgiven for suffering a touch of "Sarah Conner" syndrome.

Exactly. The OTU is established and should be maintained, yet personally I find it to be a straitjacket. It must be very difficult to play in a universe where the future is predetermined and inescapable thanks to someone else's decisions - too much like RL for my liking.

I'd love to see uniforms, especially a picture of a Scout line-up that included a Virushi and an Ael Yael.

Now this is another example of a problem with having an OTU.
Let's say I've been playing in 'the' OTU for 30 years, doing my utmost to remain faithful to canon. (I'm using my imagination here ).
I've spent 30 years designing and refining my military forces down to the last button and I know exactly what their uniforms look like.
Then somebody publishes an 'official 3I uniforms book'. Suddenly I'm faced with a dilemma - do I scrap 30 years worth of detail on my own military uniforms and adopt the official ones, or do I continue in the knowledge that MTU is no longer canon?

Likewise, if my players have visited a (previously undetailed) world many times in my campaign and suddenly somebody publishes a booklet on Arglebargle VI (thanks Bill). What will my players find next time they visit - the world they are familiar with, or an alien world that conforms to canon? (Yes I'm aware of the Foreven restriction, before anyone mentions it).

 

[lucasdigital]

I'd love to see uniforms, especially a picture of a Scout line-up that included a Virushi and an Ael Yael.

I'd love to do a set of uniform illustrations, I was inspired by talk of uniforms in the thread to jot down a quick scout design - http://ccgi.knowledgebase.plus.com/wordpress/?p=73

It's just a sketch that's been "dolled up", but I'm happy with it as starting point. The styles influenced by David R Deitrick's marker illustrations from various game systems (inc Traveller).

 

[Supplement Four]

Re: Uniforms

I always felt that the Third Imperium was monolithic, in contrast to say the Roman Empire that maintained control of very loosely aligned peoples. Imperial Marines had established uniforms, Imperial Scouts, same coloured overalls all the way across the Imperium. If they're all flying the same Type-S Scout ships, the same Close Escorts, it wouldn't make sense to me that they'd not maintain Uniformity it simpler ways. I'd agree that TL is going to skew things a bit, bit a tunic is a tunic, and there'd still be the same dress uniforms etc.

Kinda like soldiers, especially officers, in the US Civil War. Officers would buy their uniforms, and, thus, you ended up with the uniforms looking "uniform" but each had some differences.

I remember MWM remarking on uniforms in the OTU once. It was several years ago, either on this forum or on the TML. He didn't state whether the Imperial Marine uniform was consitent through out the Empire (although that was inferred from context), he did say that he thought, kind like Starfleet, that the Marines and other services of the Empire would change their uniform every so often--more so than, say, the US armed forces do in RL.

My speculation: That the Empire is so big, and communication travels so slow, that you'll have periods of up to two years where the Marines where different uniforms than their counterparts on the other side of the Empire as the uniform change orders find their way through the stars.

 

[rancke]

Exactly. The OTU is established and should be maintained, yet personally I find it to be a straitjacket. It must be very difficult to play in a universe where the future is predetermined and inescapable thanks to someone else's decisions - too much like RL for my liking.

That's no more of a problem than running a historical campaign is (Running a campaign in the OTU is a historical campaign, really). You can either rely on your players to pretend they don't know what's coming, you can set your campaign somewhere where the available historical knowledge is too scant to be useful, or you can change events so that your players can't rely on their knowledge.

Yes, the last bit does mean you're not playing in the OTU any more. Or rather, that your TU has diverged detectably from the OTU -- you never were playing in the OTU, for the simple reason that you have no influence on what goes on in the OTU. But so what? The OTU is supposed to be a help, not a hindrance. You just have to decide if you prefer going your own way and accept the work it will cost you in the future to adapt OTU material to your TU. If you let Norris die of disease in 1107 and let the Zhodani capture Rhylanor, then trade it back in exchange for making the Duchy of Regina a neutral independent state, you'll surprise your players and get one very interesting alternate universe, at the cost of having to adapt every adventure, official or fan, set in the region later than 1107 and every system writeup, official or fan, in the region. Or you can let events proceed according to shedule and be able to use adventures and system writeups with little or no work for you.

But if there hadn't been an OTU in the first place, you wouldn't even have had the description of the Marches in 1107. You'd have had to make up everything yourself.

Let's say I've been playing in 'the' OTU for 30 years, doing my utmost to remain faithful to canon. (I'm using my imagination here ).

You've been very lucky that none of the material published during those 30 years contradicted anything you'd made up for yourself.

I've spent 30 years designing and refining my military forces down to the last button and I know exactly what their uniforms look like.

Then somebody publishes an 'official 3I uniforms book'. Suddenly I'm faced with a dilemma - do I scrap 30 years worth of detail on my own military uniforms and adopt the official ones, or do I continue in the knowledge that MTU is no longer canon?

You keep your own, of course. Why not? You've already done the work. There's little advantage to be gained from switching to the canonical material. Instead, take those canonical uniforms and give them to a nearby high-population world that you haven't detailed. Or to the ducal navy.

Likewise, if my players have visited a (previously undetailed) world many times in my campaign and suddenly somebody publishes a booklet on Arglebargle VI (thanks Bill). What will my players find next time they visit - the world they are familiar with, or an alien world that conforms to canon?

The one they know, of course. Again, you've already done the work. Instead, take this new world writeup, file off the serial numbers, change a few details, and use it for antother world your players haven't visited yet.


Once, long ago, I wanted to run an special adventure involving pirates and treasure and treachery, and I decided to set in in the Trojan Reach. Since I had no information about the sector (except for the two subsectors written up in Leviathan, which I considered extremely implausible -- those subsectors has been crisscrossed by merchants for seven centuries and there are still unknown worlds? not in MY Traveler Universe, no sir!), I made up my own. I developed an entire history of the sector by making a map for every so many years (30 year intervals at one point) from the time the first refugees from the 1st Imperium arrived around -2300 and rolling dice for every world with jump technology to see if it had established an outpost, if outposts had become colonies, and if colonies had become mainworlds and begun setting up outposts of its own. I had the worlds form pocket empires, have wars, merge into bigger empires, have more wars, coalesce inot a sector-spanning empire called the Glorious Empire, had the Aslans begin creeping corewards from the Riftspan Reaches, shattered the Glorious Empire into successor states such as the Freedom League (alignment code 'Fl') and the three Rim empires (in Tobia subsector). I had the Imperium encroach from rimwards and absorb the Rim Empires, then had the situation stabilize around 600. I detailed a minor human race called the Troiani and made a map of their world, Troia. I did other things I've forgotten by now.

And two months later Travellers' Digest #20 came out...

Did I switch to using the canonical Trojan Reach? I most certainly did not! When/if Mongoose or someone else published a Trojan Reach sourcebook, I'm going to go through it an cannibalize it for stuff I can use. It'll be more work than just using straight, but my Trojan Reach is much better than the canonical one (IMO, of course ), so I'm not going to switch. And so I'll just have to accept the extra work.

But when I was working on a proposal for a Sindal subsector sourcebook (never finished the proposal, alas), I based it on the canonical version. (I did move my version of Mewey (invalidated by BtC) to Borite, though).

Ah, yes, Mevey. I had about 10,000 words worth of description of Mewey and adventure set on Mewey when BtC came out. I have absolutely no grievance on that score. How could the authors have known about my Mewey and why should they care? They couldn't and they shouldn't. I'd like some day to finish translating the material from the Danish and get it published, because IMO it is a wonderful setting and a rattling good adventure. But there are plenty of blank spots in Charted Space yet. At the moment I'm hoping to get it written up on Borite, but if someone beats me to the punch, I'll find somewhere else to put it.



Hans

 

[Klaus]

Some uniform concept sketches...

 

[lucasdigital]

Some uniform concept sketches...

Excellent work! Very convincing, and you cover a lot of uniform ground there...

 

[Icosahedron]

But if there hadn't been an OTU in the first place, you wouldn't even have had the description of the Marches in 1107. You'd have had to make up everything yourself.

So, in fact the OTU is simply a set of descriptions and suggestions. At that level, it works for me too. I just remove the history and major characters, cut the rest up into tiles, shuffle them and reuse. just as I do with the more generic suggestions like the sNubmachinegun. (can't believe I never thought of that one myself).

Once, long ago, I wanted to run an special adventure involving pirates and treasure and treachery, and I decided to set in in the Trojan Reach. Since I had no information about the sector (except for the two subsectors written up in Leviathan, which I considered extremely implausible -- those subsectors has been crisscrossed by merchants for seven centuries and there are still unknown worlds? not in MY Traveler Universe, no sir!), I made up my own. I developed an entire history of the sector by making a map for every so many years (30 year intervals at one point) from the time the first refugees from the 1st Imperium arrived around -2300 and rolling dice for every world with jump technology to see if it had established an outpost, if outposts had become colonies, and if colonies had become mainworlds and begun setting up outposts of its own. I had the worlds form pocket empires, have wars, merge into bigger empires, have more wars, coalesce inot a sector-spanning empire called the Glorious Empire, had the Aslans begin creeping corewards from the Riftspan Reaches, shattered the Glorious Empire into successor states such as the Freedom League (alignment code 'Fl') and the three Rim empires (in Tobia subsector). I had the Imperium encroach from rimwards and absorb the Rim Empires, then had the situation stabilize around 600. I detailed a minor human race called the Troiani and made a map of their world, Troia. I did other things I've forgotten by now.
Hans

That sounds interesting. What rules did you use for this snapshot empire building?

 

[rancke]

That sounds interesting. What rules did you use for this snapshot empire building?

I gave each mainworld a habitability rating (HR) from 1 to 6:

1 Impossible (With the available technology)
2 Hostile (Major survival problems)
3 Unfriendly (No air)
4 Neutral (breathable air)
5 Friendly (Terran-prime)
6 Hospitable (Terran-norm)

I then established the initial spacefaring civilizations and rolled a die for each world within range of a mainworld belonging to such a civilization. "Within range" I defined as within two jumps, so it varied according to the TL of the civilization. If I rolled less than the HR of an empty world, I put an outpost on it. Outposts had to make a survival roll (against HR) first, then another roll to grow into a colony. colonies threw two dice for survival; if both failed, they turned into outposts, if one failed it stayed a colony, if both succeeded, it got a second roll to grow into a mainworld.

I also rolled randomly for misjump colonies... outpost-sized colonies established by a misjumped ship. And I put in a few not-so-random touches, like rolling to see if a strategically placed world between two pocket empires got a trading outpost.

When the empires expanded to meet each other, I let both (in a few cases all three) sides roll for outposts; when they both became colonies, wars weren't far behind.

I can't remember the rules I used for Aslan encroachment, but they got to 'ooze' onto neighboring worlds and take them over.


Hans

 

[Brian Blank]

To be perfectly honest, the artwork for some of your ships leaves a lot to be desired. At least the most of the older designs had an elegance to them and were well designed.

Take a look at the Traveller Calendar or some of the art here and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Brian Blank]

Some Delayed action thoughts.

Recently we had the "reboot" of Star Trek and I went into that like any other hardcore fan, thinking I would hate it. Afterwards , I found I liked the movie very much. Yes, there were elements I didn't like but it's an alternate reality to the canon verse. A whole new setting to play around in.

I'm realizing that there are still a lot of untold stories in Traveller circa 1105 and maybe the MGT group wants to tell those stories and relive the beginnings of Traveller too. At the beginning we had the Spinward Marches and Ley Sector and The Solomani Rim but most of the published adventures ( at least the ones I remember ) took place in the Marches. What was happening in the rest of the Imperium and other areas during that time?

I really want to see what comes next.

 

[beowulf2044]

What was happening in the rest of the Universe? I'm not sure, but according to the OTU, someday Ithklur would be running around in Santa Claus hats and reciting lines from old Saturday Night Live routines.

Which kind of puts the point on my view of the Official Traveller Universe.

 

[Allensh]

From the Grognardia blog whose link I posted in another thread...

"I've read Mongoose's recent edition of Traveller and think it's pretty good -- certainly better than anything we've had in years. Rules-wise, it's a bit too clearly a descendant of late classic Traveller, after supplementitis had set in, and there are a few more attempts to "update" its assumptions than I like, but it looks decent enough. There also doesn't (yet) appear to be much of a fixation on the Third Imperium and that's all to the good. I love the Third Imperium to pieces, but, in the end, it helped kill Traveller."

Allen