far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Seriously? By which I mean if such was said was it supposed to be taken seriously?
The importance of having an Official Traveller Universe
- Thread starter rancke
- Start date
Seriously? By which I mean if such was said was it supposed to be taken seriously?
beowulf2044
SOC-12
Yes. Published by GDW during The New Era. Ithklur quoted as saying "Basa-ball has been berry-berry good to me".
Pictures of Ithklur wearing Santa hats in official GDW publications.
I felt it was a very poor attempt at humour. But they were in official publications. So when someone starts talking about the official, inviolate Traveller Universe, I always picture the way the Ithklur were portrayed.
Pictures of Ithklur wearing Santa hats in official GDW publications.
I felt it was a very poor attempt at humour. But they were in official publications. So when someone starts talking about the official, inviolate Traveller Universe, I always picture the way the Ithklur were portrayed.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Bah. I'd have written it off in a blink as bad humour. Maybe I'd have grinned while groaning, depending on the mood and time of year. But even if it were labeled from on high as Canon Inviolate it wouldn't have stopped me from treating it as anything more than silly and NIMTU (not in my Traveller Universe). I certainly wouldn't consider for a second discounting the whole OTU over one grossly silly bit...
...speaking of which. This reminds me of a running gag or two in our own D&D games for years and years. One started from (iirc) the ref who started us on D&D in the late 70's. He had Kobalds wearing little knitted skull caps and crying KI-YI-YI all the time. They never surprised us after the first encounter, and they never scared us either. We kept using that through our own games. "You hear cries of KI-YI-YI and see a dozen short humanoids wearing Red Togues. What do you do?" Yawn, Kobalds again, we kill them to stop that noise. The other was (animated of course) Skeletons. Always with the surprised silent (no lungs, no tounges, no voice) screaming when we found them. We killed them too, to shut them up
In no case did any of us take any of that seriously. It was comic relief. We (well, I anyway) just imagined the reality of it (sneaky kobalds, mindless skellies) and mostly ignored the running gag except as just that. I'd treat the Ithklur thing the same, though I doubt I'd even use it for that.
...speaking of which. This reminds me of a running gag or two in our own D&D games for years and years. One started from (iirc) the ref who started us on D&D in the late 70's. He had Kobalds wearing little knitted skull caps and crying KI-YI-YI all the time. They never surprised us after the first encounter, and they never scared us either. We kept using that through our own games. "You hear cries of KI-YI-YI and see a dozen short humanoids wearing Red Togues. What do you do?" Yawn, Kobalds again, we kill them to stop that noise. The other was (animated of course) Skeletons. Always with the surprised silent (no lungs, no tounges, no voice) screaming when we found them. We killed them too, to shut them up
In no case did any of us take any of that seriously. It was comic relief. We (well, I anyway) just imagined the reality of it (sneaky kobalds, mindless skellies) and mostly ignored the running gag except as just that. I'd treat the Ithklur thing the same, though I doubt I'd even use it for that.
Last edited:
beowulf2044
SOC-12
From my understanding, an official Traveller universe would lay out history from the inception to its endpoint. Nothing a group of player characters could do to influence history. So, PC's can check their calenders and say, "Well, we've got less than four standard years until a giant intelligent computer virus comes to eat us all. Who's up for some pilliging?"
Of course, everyone is free to accept or reject all or part of whatever the OTU is. But if you don't accept it all, warts, silly Ithklur and intelligent toasters, then you're not really using the OTU.
Speaking of the Virus, remember that bit where one of the Virus controlled stations believes its actually the Biblical Satan?
Does anyone else picture Futurama's Robot Devil?
Oh, well. It's OTU.
Of course, everyone is free to accept or reject all or part of whatever the OTU is. But if you don't accept it all, warts, silly Ithklur and intelligent toasters, then you're not really using the OTU.
Speaking of the Virus, remember that bit where one of the Virus controlled stations believes its actually the Biblical Satan?
Does anyone else picture Futurama's Robot Devil?
Oh, well. It's OTU.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Is that the MT OTU, the TNE OTU, the T4 OTU or the pre HG OTU?
beowulf2044
SOC-12
Excellent question. And as soon as your inquiry is processed by the universal translator, I'll try and provide an answer.
beowulf2044
SOC-12
I think the History of the Universe goes something like this (with apologies to James Burke):
300,000 years ago, the Anchients showed up. They visited earth and took Humans and Canine's with them (I assume they were the only species who could be housebroken). The Anchients then proceeded to blow the crap out of each other. Humanity went to the stars, where they then proceeded to blow the crap out of each other far less successfully, and then Emperor Strephon was assainated. This ends the first Classic Traveler history and begins the MegaTraveller one.
Humanity (and a few others from the local galatic neighborhood) continue to blow the crap out of each other, until a computer virus, whose origin came from the Classic Traveller timeline, takes over the machines and starts to blow the crap out of everyone who's biologically inclined. This ends the MegaTraveller time and begins the New Era timeline, where everyone tries to blow the crap out of each other and includes Ithklur in silly hats and Robot Satan.
All of which began 300,000 years ago when a bunch of Droyne came to earth and needed to find a species who could fetch the paper and not poop in the house.
So it's all connected.
300,000 years ago, the Anchients showed up. They visited earth and took Humans and Canine's with them (I assume they were the only species who could be housebroken). The Anchients then proceeded to blow the crap out of each other. Humanity went to the stars, where they then proceeded to blow the crap out of each other far less successfully, and then Emperor Strephon was assainated. This ends the first Classic Traveler history and begins the MegaTraveller one.
Humanity (and a few others from the local galatic neighborhood) continue to blow the crap out of each other, until a computer virus, whose origin came from the Classic Traveller timeline, takes over the machines and starts to blow the crap out of everyone who's biologically inclined. This ends the MegaTraveller time and begins the New Era timeline, where everyone tries to blow the crap out of each other and includes Ithklur in silly hats and Robot Satan.
All of which began 300,000 years ago when a bunch of Droyne came to earth and needed to find a species who could fetch the paper and not poop in the house.
So it's all connected.
I use the OTU, but my PCs don't exist there: When I run a campaign I create MTU based (usually) on the OTU up to that point in the timeline. From that point forward MTU may start to deviate from the OTU. But it makes my life easier if, when I buy a Traveller product, it is fully OTU compatable ... not just adaptable to the OTU. That way I know I'm starting from a consistant(*) baseline before I add my own tweaks and houserules, and not having to review a disparate conglomeration of material. Each of MTUs are customised versions of the OTU. So I do use the OTU and my PCs can excercise free will and make a difference.
* = Okay, I know there are inconsistancies in the OTU. GDW et al screwed up from time to time.
D
drh
Guest
This is all very well, but as far as I know nobody has said that there wouldn't be an Official Traveller Universe. It's just going to be one of many settings that Mongoose Traveller covers. That being the case, why worry about it going anywhere?
It's funny how different people can have such completely different views on the same thing. I think the MgT products could do with more 3I focus. While I have my preferred rules system, none of them are amazingly great: What's kept me playing Traveller for 30 years is the 3I. In other words the 3I saved Traveller.
Mongoose said publically:
(1) OTU now means Original TU, not official.
(2) Matt stated he intended to "drive a wedge between the rules and the OTU".
So now some people are concerned that, not only will Mongoose divert effort from Traveller with non-Traveller products labeled Traveller because they are based on the Traveller rules, but more confusingly that Mongoose may start putting out OTU-variant products that may not be fully compatable with the OTU.
I personally have zero interest in non-OTU product. I don't want to buy something that I think is going to be for the OTU only to find its not. And while I'm fine with Mongoose making clearly labeled non-OTU product, I'd hate to see the non-OTU product lines diverting resources away from the OTU line.
D
drh
Guest
Neither of which means or implies that the OTU is going anywhere. Changing the "O" in OTU isn't going to change anything in the setting. It just means that it's the original setting, the third imperium one, the one that came first.
As for the rules/setting separation, that just means that they aren't going to be as intertwined as they were before. Again, there's no reason to believe that everything that made the OTU what it was will suddenly disappear.
I can't help but think that people may be leaping to false conclusions here.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
AIUI, the point of this thread is to argue that what Mongoose creates should not just be an OTU, but the OTU - ie fully compatible with every scrap of canon that has been written over the past thirty years (except where a deliberate, signposted effort is made to rectify pre-existing discrepancies) and the worry is whether anyone at Mongoose has sufficient knowledge of the OTU to ensure that - and whether they will care enough to do the necessary research.
This is an issue that affects everyone who uses the OTU, whatever core ruleset they use to play Traveller. Future material labeled 'OTU' should be fully compatible, but is Mongoose able to vet the stuff adequately? If not, current disagreements over canon discrepancies will be mere skirmishes compared with the flame wars to come, as Mongoose possibly releases 'canon' material that blatantly contradicts something written 25 years ago...
Last edited:
Almost what I meant. However, what I want is a fun, useful, and self-consistent baseline universe, . And one way to make that more likely is to refrain from introducing new discrepancies. Note that I don't think that trying to be compatible with every scrap of previously published material is even possible and wouldn't create a self-consistent universe if it was, since a lot of those scraps are mutually contradictory. But unless and until someone creates a "Writer's Bible", casually introduced discrepancies are likely to go unnoticed by half the future writers, which means that they'll be perpetuated over and over again.
A prime example is the Entropic/Cunnonic worlds discrepancy. According to the original JTAS article and several other CT publications, the worlds the Darrians and the Sword Worlders have fought over for centuries were Terant 340, Torment, Trifuge, and Cunnonic ('The Cunnonic Worlds'). But according to Darrians and SMC, it is the Entropic worlds. And both of those versions kept cropping up again over the years. For instance, two decades later GURPS:Traveller had one and Behind the Claw the other
. So far we only have one MGT version (the Entropic Worlds -- incidentally the one I advocate myself). But if they publish a set of Library Data without being aware of the problem, they're very likely to introduce the Cunnonic Worlds version too.Hans
Well stated.
Marc Miller is 'vetting' everything and (if anything) has been reactionary* in his zeal to not change/contradict what has come before.
*[ultra conservative leaning towards absolutely no changes where even the contradictions are 'official'] the word has several connotations.
Which would be an admirable attitude if what had gone before was fully self-consistent.
With the number of existing discrepancies... not so much.
Hans
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Contradicting established material is all fine if done for a good reason and with a lot of side-effect checking. I.e it would be one thing to optimise the X-Boat routes while keeping the whole thing J4. Transforming it into the TNE X-Web and switching to J6 would be a totally different thing.
I should, in the interest of honesty, disclose that my earlier observation is based on a very small data set (2 interactions). I don't hang with Marc discussing the future of Traveller [like DonM and Robject and Matt ], I just had the opportunity to be a fly on the wall of two specific issues.
], I just had the opportunity to be a fly on the wall of two specific issues.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Whether it is a re-release of a publication, errata, or new supplements, isn't it common for there to be some things that are changed, redone in some way, or contradicted? Isn't the authority on what is official the responsibility of Mongoose and Matt and not the fans? People certainly can still do things their own way if some NOTU (New Official Traveller Universe?) does not fit in their universe. People certainly can provide input towards future products, and criticize current ones.
Similar threads
