The Most Serious T5 Problems

[rancke]

As has been pointed out more times than I care to count, T5 is a toolkit. Use the parts you like, don't use the parts you don't.

As has been pointed out multiple times, the fact that a referee is able to change or ignore a rule does not make a bad rule good. Or even acceptable.


Hans

 

[pendragonman]

It's too bad STAPM isn't as euphonious as STAMP.

I suggest changing M and P to stand for Mutilation and Perambulation.


Hans

Bwahahahahah!:rofl:

Seriously though, that kinda makes sense...

 

[HG_B]

As has been pointed out more times than I care to count, T5 is a toolkit. Use the parts you like, don't use the parts you don't.

And as has been pointed out more times than anything, Trav 5 was NOT marketed as a TOOLKIT. That has been coined as an excuse as to why it was released without being completed properly.

"Traveller5 is the ultimate edition of the Traveller science-fiction role-playing game: rules and concepts you never thought possible." - from kickstarter

 

[pendragonman]

As has been pointed out multiple times, the fact that a referee is able to change or ignore a rule does not make a bad rule good. Or even acceptable.


Hans

Doesn't make it a good rule either. What it means is that the ref is in control of his/her game. Which is the whole idea.

 

[pendragonman]

And as has been pointed out more times than anything, Trav 5 was NOT marketed as a TOOLKIT. That has been coined as an excuse as to why it was released without being completed properly.

"Traveller5 is the ultimate edition of the Traveller science-fiction role-playing game: rules and concepts you never thought possible." - from kickstarter

Ultimate edition, rules and concepts you never thought possible also doesn't say it isn't a toolkit.

In fact that quote doesn't even imply it is in any way playable. Just that it is the ultimate edition of Traveller rules and concepts that were never thought possible. People assumed that it would be a completely smooth glossy perfect (in everyone's opinion, which is not possible. Nothing is perfect to everyone) rpg. This in spite of our collective history with Traveller...

 

[Supplement Four]

As has been pointed out more times than I care to count, T5 is a toolkit. Use the parts you like, don't use the parts you don't.

I've never really been one to mix parts from different roleplaying games, even those within the same family. For example, I don't mix GURPS Traveller stuff with CT.

That may be just me.

I don't like taking something from Harn to use in my Conan RPG, either. I bet more people are like that than the above.

Are you being disingenuous, or do you ALWAY use EVERY rule in ANY rpg (or any game for that matter) that you play? I point out your 68A isn't exactly canon.

We've had this discussion before. No, not always, but my first goal with an RPG is to learn how to play it rules as written--before I start making any changes.

And, I always hope that I won't have to make any changes.

I've told you that my Conan RPG campaign, which I've been playing for the last few years, is pretty much a RAW game.

In the BOSS FIGHT I would want the interchange to have short combat rounds with lots of skill checks to keep the drama high so lots of cinematic action. So I would (still using the T5 skillcheck mechanic) go with the CT combat round.

Interesting. I know others do it, but I have always run combat the same, boss or no boss. I usually don't have different rules for different NPC types.

On the other hand, before you continue to scream about the HTH rules, have you looked at MongTrav's brawling rule?

No, I haven't. And, why is that important? We're discussing T5, not a mix-n-match of T5 and MgT.

 

[HG_B]

Interesting. I know others do it, but I have always run combat the same, boss or no boss. I usually don't have different rules for different NPC types.

That originated in computer games. The only people I've seen do that are people more familiar/comfortable playing on a game console rather than at a table, P&P + other humans.

 

[pendragonman]

Re the different combat situations:

I don't like sucking up hours of rp time with combats with mooks. On the other hand, combat with major NPCs should be way more memorable.

Re the Mong brawling rule, I quoted it for you in case you hadn't.

I haven't played Harn in more than a decade. Is it still available?

 

[Supplement Four]

And as has been pointed out more times than anything, Trav 5 was NOT marketed as a TOOLKIT.

Yes. The cover says "Core Rules".

On the inside cover, it says:

Traveller5 (T5): The fifth of the direct line of editions of the Traveller game system, ambitiously intended as the ultimate science-fiction role-playing system covering near everything in role-playing, and capable of managing situations across a variety of eras and technology levels.



Chapter Three of the introduction, starting on page 12, it titled: Traveller is a Role-Playing Game. And the chapter describes how the book is a role-playing game, saying nothing of being a toolkit.

 

[pendragonman]

That originated in computer games. The only people I've seen do that are people more familiar/comfortable playing on a game console rather than at a table, P&P + other humans.

Actually console games give me migraines, frame rate issue. I can't play fps games at all, console or computer for the same reason. I am old. I just have had too many game sessions sidetracked by an incidental encounter that has nothing to do with the plot line.

 

[Supplement Four]

I don't like sucking up hours of rp time with combats with mooks. On the other hand, combat with major NPCs should be way more memorable.

Hm. I've had plenty of amazing, interesting fights with no-name NPCs, some I just made up on the spot, over the years with different game systems.

I'm thinking right now of a 1E AD&D game we had back in the day when the PCs ran into this mage that was trying to get away. One of the PCs cornered him. We threw initiative. By a miracle, the NPC mage won the toss and threw Levitate on the PC. The PC failed his save....and, up, up, up he went...until the spell duration expired. Then, he fell. All the way down.

The big, bad fighter thought he'd cream the little no-hit-point mage.

Man, we still crack up about that.

Good times.

I haven't played Harn in more than a decade. Is it still available?

I've actually never played it. But, I understand a new edition (5th?) is out now.

 

[Vladika]

...As a GM, I find it tedious to have to watch everyone's in weapon ammo stock for them. Let them shoot for several rounds, then require a clip change. If you don't need it for drama purposes, at the end of combat tell the shooters they went thru x clips. done.

I agree it's tedious to have to watch ammo. I use index cards with small squares on them. Every time a player fires he checks off a box. One line of squares for each magazine. If the player wants to, he can change clips, or risk running out at an inopportune time.

Easy to follow and one card works pretty well. How much ammo, in how many clip, does the average PC carry?

Works well for military PCs carrying an average basic load.

Try it. It works very well and stops many arguments in their tracks.

 

[HG_B]

Yes. The cover says "Core Rules".

On the inside cover, it says:

Correct, it wasn't marketed that way. That was the "surprise" you got AFTER you purchased it as a result of the marketing...

 

[Supplement Four]

I just have had too many game sessions sidetracked by an incidental encounter that has nothing to do with the plot line.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I've got several examples of a past game where a no-nothing encounter turned into THE PLOT because of the way the session went.

Just like an impromptu role-playing encounter becoming something extremely memorable, the same can happen in a fight.

 

[pendragonman]

Hm. I've had plenty of amazing, interesting fights with no-name NPCs, some I just made up on the spot, over the years with different game systems.

I'm thinking right now of a 1E AD&D game we had back in the day when the PCs ran into this mage that was trying to get away. One of the PCs cornered him. We threw initiative. By a miracle, the NPC mage won the toss and threw Levitate on the PC. The PC failed his save....and, up, up, up he went...until the spell duration expired. Then, he fell. All the way down.

The big, bad fighter thought he'd cream the little no-hit-point mage.

Man, we still crack up about that.

Good times.

As a PLAYER, yes, some really comedic or otherwise memorable fights come from random encounters. But see, I am in the great gaming wasteland of Kansas. If I want a game, I gotta GM. And as a GM, the random encounters often sidetrack the players I can find from the plot line, ending up taking up an entire session, and when you don't get many sessions do to family, work, research, and other RL issues that I didn't have as a single 20-something 2 and a half decades ago, game time is precious.

EDIT:On the other hand, when I GM Trav I often let a random encounter or two determine the course of the plot as the players decide what they want to do about a random situation. Are they more Captain Mal, or more Mimbari in temprament...

 

[HG_B]

As a PLAYER, yes, some really comedic or otherwise memorable fights come from random encounters. But see, I am in the great gaming wasteland of Kansas. If I want a game, I gotta GM. And as a GM, the random encounters often sidetrack the players I can find from the plot line, ending up taking up an entire session, and when you don't get many sessions do to family, work, research, and other RL issues that I didn't have as a single 20-something 2 and a half decades ago, game time is precious.

True that. Ya just made me feel old again.

 

[Supplement Four]

I agree it's tedious to have to watch ammo.

I also agree. But, I'd like something in the middle--a way of counting ammo that doesn't require (or minimizes) bookkeeping.

I tried to do that with my T5 ammo fix in my sig.

I don't want a player feeling like I'm picking on him when, as Ref, I tell him that he's out of ammo--and he knows that I could have very well made that arbitrary call next round, or the round after, allowing him to get out of the fight.

My idea of drama, in a situation like that, may turn a player sour--a condition that is avoided if he can see his ammo tracking off as he fires his weapon.

 

[Vladika]

It's too bad STAPM isn't as euphonious as STAMP.

I suggest changing M and P to stand for Mutilation and Perambulation.


Hans

Yes, it does work better, though the words are a big bite.

Still, Marc apparently thought a cool acronym was more important than making good sense.

Why is this messing with you? It happens a lot. In real life people can fall dead from adynamic (does not contribute to death) like grazes and cases where the subject sustained multiple dynamic (directly contributing to death) wounds and stay up and fighting well after the body should be/was dead.

Originally Posted by Vladika View Post
Gotta love this. Target moves 50 yards AFTER he is hit and AFTER those 50 yards of movement we find out he's deader than last weeks meatloaf...

Because I've never seen, or heard, of anyone taking three 50. cal rounds to the chest and continuing to play John Wayne?

Only in the movies does the shot, and mortally wounded, hero run and fall on the detonator with his dying breath, utter a one liner, and blow the (fill in the blank here) to pieces. Thus saving his best friend and the girl, who get married naming their first child after him...

Just not buying a system where nobody falls dead where shot.

But maybe. I mean the guy who takes an RPG or tank round is probably going to move, rather suddenly, after being hit.:devil:

 

[Vladika]

...in the great gaming wasteland of Kansas. If I want a game, I gotta GM. And as a GM, the random encounters often sidetrack the players I can find from the plot line...

Gotta stop playing with pigtailed girls and small dogs...

 

[Murdoc]

I don't get why ammo tracking is a problem. Don't you let your players do it? They roll the die, they tick one (or more off), done. They have plenty of time between turns to do the book-keeping. If it's a trust issue well then I don't know if I'd want to play with those people. For NPCs, yeah, I just wing it. They're supposed to lose, so chances are they won't have time to run out anyway.