pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Thanks. Beat me to it.
After all, the reaction is started by conventional shaped charges. How big a stretch would it be to focus the nuclear detonation to get that metal-plasma lance?
The nuclear anti-ship missile
- Thread starter Carlobrand
- Start date
Thanks. Beat me to it.
After all, the reaction is started by conventional shaped charges. How big a stretch would it be to focus the nuclear detonation to get that metal-plasma lance?
Er, I included a link to a design diagram and description of one, actually the design for the Project Orion propulsion munitions mentioned by Aramis, but the same page discusses how to adapt the design as a weapon.
It does work on somewhat different principles to conventional explosive shaped charges though, so if you're thinking that you can't make a nuke shaped charge the same way you'd do it with conventional explosives that's probably correct.
Simon Hibbs
I am very curious about that design. It employed a jacket of "nonfissionable uranium" to briefly contain and focus the explosion. Not "nonfissile", "nonfissionable". I understand "nonfissionable" in this context to mean it will not fission if it absorbs a neutron - it undergoes some form of decay instead. In the case of U238, that means it decays into Pu239, which then goes BOOM. That's how they power up a lot of fusion bombs nowadays: they give it a U238 jacket that converts to Pu239 then fissions under the impact of all those fast neutrons.
So, if I understand this correctly, they are "containing" the nuclear explosion by enveloping it in yet another nuclear explosion and then giving it only one way out. Do I have this right? Or is there a form of uranium that does something different?
So, if I understand this correctly, they are "containing" the nuclear explosion by enveloping it in yet another nuclear explosion and then giving it only one way out. Do I have this right? Or is there a form of uranium that does something different?
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
If you hit U-238 with the right velocity of neutron, it fissions very nicely. That is the reason for the U-238 jacket on a fission-fusion-frission bomb. The high velocity neutrons from the fusion reaction fission large numbers of U-238 atoms, significantly increasing the yield. The U-238 jacket also does a very nice job reflecting the radiation produced by the initial fission explosion back into the fusion plasma, increasing the reaction there as well. In theory, although the Russian Tzar Bomba device showed that it probably would work, you could build a very large fission-fusion-fission-fusion-fission device with a yield potential in the gigatons, i.e. a thousand megatons. That would make a very satisfactory noise upon exploding in the atmosphere.
Edit Note: U-239 firsts decays into Neptunium-239 before that decays into Pu-239. Neptunium has a half-like of a bit over 2 days, so would never decay in time to be used in an explosion.
Last edited:
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
The amount of material that fissions is always less than the amount in the warhead. A reasonably sized compression charge can't hold it all together long enough for everything to fizz (as I like to say). The faster it fissions, the more material is blasted outside the critical interaction volume. A lower yield doesn't require any more material, just suboptimal compression.
I think there is a trade off that uses a much smaller compression charge but a little more fissile material. The net result can be a lighter overall device with a lower yield, but if all you really care about is the lightness of the device and the yield is still sufficient, it's one way to go. I think suitcase nukes used this sort of design. they were a horribly inefficient way to use the nuclear material but very portable.
Simon Hibbs
I thought it was something like that - though I got the U-238 business wrong. Thanks for the info. 
I guess if they could get a lighter warhead out of it, might explain why they're going with such a subobtimal warhead. 100 kg is mighty small to fit drives and sensors and warhead into.
I guess if they could get a lighter warhead out of it, might explain why they're going with such a subobtimal warhead. 100 kg is mighty small to fit drives and sensors and warhead into.
Time ago I did some similar numbers as you have done, but my conclusion was quite different.
The main difference in my numbres is that while you asume 25000 Mw x second, I assumed 25000 Mw x turn, as the power stored in the sinks allows you to feed 25000 Mw of systems for a full turn.
As one turn is 20 minutes (so 1200 seconds), then my numbers multiply yours by 1200, reaching the conclusion that those same missiles were about 14 Kton in power.
"Non-nuclear missiles inflict two points times their factor ..."
That would put the non-nuclear missile in the 0.28 Kton range - equivalent to 280 tons of TNT. That is very impressive performance for a non-nuclear 50 kg missile.
Unless they are contact missiles (after all, no atmospheric concussion may be expected) and the BG absorbes them (its matter, I mean) somewhat. IIRC, BG also absorbs any matter in contact, probably converting it (at least in part) to energy...
As an aside, see that in MT a BG absorbes 5000 Mw/factor when hit by a Meson Gun. On spinals, this may go up to 50% of the power fired (an L factor needs 200000 Mw, and, being factor 20, the BG absoerves 100000 Mw), while for bays, it may raise up to 90% (a TL 15 100 ton bays needs 50000 Mw, and the MG would absorb 45000) for up to TL15, but even more than fired for higher TL ones (at TL 16, the same 100 ton bay still needs 50000 Mw, but, being factor B -so 11-, a BG would absorb 55000 Mw from it, becoming worse at higher TLs).
Last edited:
I don't recall a black globe being a matter conversion device. It is described as absorbing energy, not matter.
Per MT Referee Manual, "Spinal mount weapons inflict their full megawatt requirements." Has this changed? Those numbers don't quite look right either. Are you perhaps talking about MgT?
ITTR (but I canot give you exact reference) some writing about absorbing anything, and that the first one they turned on (when they discovered them in an Ancient site) not being able to be turned off, as they could not cross the force field.
You're right for spinals, sorry, my fault, but for bays, this 5000 Mw/factor is indicated, so giving the problem I told about for them at higher than TL 15.
Well, it would absorb kinetic energy. It'd stop any mass at the interface as surely as an adamantium wall. One of the earliest sources on the subject, CT Adventure 1, The Kinunir describes the globe as:
"A rudimentary force screen generator producing a characteristic black globe surrounding its mechanism. Matter is unable to penetrate the surface of the screen, and energy impinging on the screen is absorbed within the mechanism. When the screen is dropped, the energy is then radiated away as heat."
Oh, I see it. Well, that's awkward.
Ooh, I wonder if it absorbs psychic energy, if a TK can't reach through it or a psi read through it or a teleport port through it. It'd be one partial answer to the Empress Wave: set it on a high flicker and it might reduce the impact of the wave to something tolerable.
