OTU Only: Third Imperium Inspiration

[Supplement Four]

Foundation: Only about 60 pages left. As the book goes on, it gets less and less interesting. The early stuff, with Hari Seldon and the psychohistory stuff is neat. Then, see it play out in the first two stories is neat. I'm finding the last two stories to be a struggle. It feels like old territory. We're seeing yet another instance of how the Foundation endured. OK, I get it.

I'm hoping the next book, Foundation and Empire, will be more about Hari and the psychohistorians.

 

[Supplement Four]

Foundation: Not a lot has been said about the way the jump drive works in this universe. I believe it's supposed to be instant travel, but there is some other factor that takes time. Maybe, like Traveller, the jump to the system cannot be too close to the star. I dunno. Maybe another book will elaborate.

But, another close Traveller-ism has been discovered in my reading. And, that is the symbol of the Empire. It's a sun (with a spaceship inside the sun).

 

[Supplement Four]

Foundation: I finished the book. I revise what I said above, because I liked the last story more than I was thinking I would (I wrote the above as I had just started the last story). So, really, the fourth story is the only one that I found boring.

All in all, it was a good read. I appreciated it for the science fiction masterwork that it is, and I like finding the Traveller inpiration within the work, too. I'll definitely move on, at some point, to the next book in the series, Foundation and Empire, which I've heard is a better read.

Traveller-isms: The stories deal with a large Empire, as well as single worlds and Pocket Empires, that are Human-centric (though, there are no aliens in this first Foundation book).

Also, Earth doesn't play a part at all. This is a decaying Empire in the far, far future. Earth isn't even mentioned in this book.

There's a spaceship named: Dark Nebula.

Technology level of a world is central to the plot of these novellas (just as I suspect TL should be a very important influence in Traveller, especially Classic Traveller). Tech Level also dominiates trade, which is not unlike the trading system from Book 2.

The nobility is presumably strong on some worlds, but not in the stories of this first Foundation book. Different worlds have different governments.

 

[epicenter00]

I'm honestly not a big fan of Foundation after the first book (like i'm not a very big fan of the Dune universe after the first book). I really didn't like the "Foundation creep" after a point in that series, and how it felt like each following book was written by the same Hollywood execs that wrote the plot for the latest "Terminator" movie ("It doesn't have to make sense as long as it has even bigger twists than the earlier movies!"). Hari Seldon goes from this visionary and concerned human, to being a puppet, then an irrelevant farce, and finally a criminal against the future.

 

[Supplement Four]

I liked Book 1 well enough, though I certainly wouldn't name it the best science fiction series ever written (of course, I haven't read the other two books in that first trilogy).

I'm intrigued, though, as it seems that Asimov won the Hugo every time he wrote one.

I'll continue with it. We'll see.



As for Dune, I love that universe, and I enjoyed all of the original books. Though, I will say the first one is the best. I'd love to roleplay in that universe just as the Atreides are moving to Arrakis, before, and probably during, their over throw.

I remember less and less of the other books. I'm due for another read of them. This will be my fourth reading of the first book, third of the next two, and second of the last couple.

I may find the effort to read through the Anderson/Herbert abominations too. We'll see about that as well.

 

[GypsyComet]

the Anderson/Herbert abominations

I always blink when I see that name, before remembering that there have been at least two Andersons in SF.

 

[Timerover51]

I always blink when I see that name, before remembering that there have been at least two Andersons in SF.

Who is the other one besides Poul? I cannot thing of another one off-hand, but will likely be embarrassed with enlightened.

Has anyone mentioned Heillein's Rolling Stones as yet? And for politics on very large ships, there is A. E. Van Vogt's Voyage of the Space Beagle.

I cannot stress too highly checking out the science fiction on Project Gutenberg for ideas. There is an enormous amount there.

Edit Note: When I think of inspiration for Traveller, I do not think only in terms of the Imperium, but science fiction adventures in general. In some respects, the Imperium is very confining. I would like to see more "To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before" material.

 

[pendragonman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_J._Anderson

Plus Gilliam Anderson (X files actress) is supposed to be writing Sci Fi as well

 

[GypsyComet]

Kevin J is the one who collaborated with Brian Herbert in a long winded and generally terrible attempt to carry on the Dune legacy.

Poul was another of Traveller's inspirations from the 50s to the 70s and beyond.

 

[Timerover51]

Hmm, I have never heard of Kevin J., which makes sense as I am not a follower of the Dune series. I did manage to get through the serialization in Analog, but that was it.

I am not that into the current crop of SF writers, as I much prefer the ones from the 1960s-1970s and earlier. I am not into Star Wars at all.

 

[Supplement Four]

Kevin Anderson is a horrible, horrible writer. I read his stuff, and I think it was written by a high school lit student. No kidding.

KJA was/is a comic book writer that has expanded into novels. He wrote an early Star Wars trilogy called the Jedi Academy trilogy--a series where I cold not finish the first book.

Somehow, he lucked into being the writing partner for Brian Herbert to continue the Dune Saga (the prequel deal was a $3 million deal--I can't believe anybody thinks he's worth that!)

Evidently somebody thinks he can write, because he has been nominated for a Nebula, Locus Award, and a Bram Stoker Award.

He's the most successful, extremely bad author I've ever read.

I actually run from his books. Everything I've read, except for some comics, with his name on them, I've thought was just flat out awful.

 

[GypsyComet]

Kevin Anderson is a horrible, horrible writer. I read his stuff, and I think it was written by a high school lit student.

The first review I read of his books was in Analog, by an author I respect (Spider Robinson). Spider's opinion of KJA's writing was scathing, so I've never bothered to try his books myself. Friends' reviews of the Dune continuance strongly suggested that he hadn't improved with experience...

The SF publishers keeps paying Robert Vardeman, too, so I guess there really is no accounting for talent.

 

[Ulsyus]

Kevin J is the one who collaborated with Brian Herbert in a long winded and generally terrible attempt to carry on the Dune legacy.

Poul was another of Traveller's inspirations from the 50s to the 70s and beyond.

Poul Anderson was a talented and prolific writer, and though, like a lot of writers who published in the 40s-60s, some of the material may be a bit dated, the titles from his Technic Civilization and tales of Dominic Flandry are still a great read.

One of his themes was of having a single dominant culture ruling the world resulting in a harsh authoritarian regime that spells the end of a liberal democracy. That seems to have been avoided with the foundation of the 3I, where it's not the planet that the Imperium rules. That said, I still disagree that the 3I doesn't have significant influence over a great number of worlds and their governments in across the Imperium.

 

[Supplement Four]

That said, I still disagree that the 3I doesn't have significant influence over a great number of worlds and their governments in across the Imperium.

Sure it does, through the nobility. The Imperium may keep its mits out of local world business on Rhylanor, but the Count of Rhylanor owes his fealty to the Emperor.

 

[aramis]

Who is the other one besides Poul? I cannot thing of another one off-hand, but will likely be embarrassed with enlightened.

Kevin J. Anderson - he has been controversial for years - first for star wars (in the 90's) - and not just the Jedi Academy Trilogy - then for co-authoring (with Brian Herbert, Frank's son) the Dune Prequels.

Personally, I like the House ____ prequels, but found the Machine Crusade meh. And I loved Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of dune, which are technically Anderson, Herbert & Herbert - the plot is Frank's, the prose by KJA & BH.

Paul of Dune, however - that book is a travesty. Both against Dune, and novels in general.

I liked his non-Jedi-academy SW novels. The JA novels, however, were absolute offal.

 

[Supplement Four]

The JA novels, however, were absolute offal.

He named his hero "Kyp". Kyp Durron. I refer to him as Dip Durron.

The first book in the series, Jedi Search, averages 3.5 stars with 39% giving it 5 stars and 17% giving it 4 stars.

Somebody likes his writing. Maybe they're all young adults. I dunno. I think his stuff smells like it's been beat with the pooper stick.




I read House Atreides--I don't think I finished it. The ideas in it were actually pretty good. It was the writing that I thought was so bad about it. I started noticing that some chapters were OK-to-decent to read. None of it was up to the high standard set by elder Herbert. But, for some chapters, I thought it was good enough to read. Then, other chapters, while the story was good, the ideas were just not presented in a good way. I'm not a snob when it comes to writing. Heck, I read comic books. But, doggone if it wasn't hard to keep my interest on some of those chapters.

I can only guess that some of the chapters were primarily written by Brian Herbert, and the others were primarily written by KJA. I have not idea if the two worked that way. It's just a guess because some of the chapters are noticeably worse than others.

I think I may try the audiobooks for these, one of these days. I'm hoping that will help be get over my dislike for KJA's work.

 

[mike wightman]

That said, I still disagree that the 3I doesn't have significant influence over a great number of worlds and their governments in across the Imperium.

My issue with the level of Imperial involvement is not that there is too little, it is that by later material the Imperium had too much influence.

According to Mercenary and High Guard the Imperium is a remote central government - that suggests to me that the Imperial core sector worlds are much more heavily influenced directly by the Imperium, I go so far as to say the majority will be direct rule by the Imperial government structure.

It is the frontier worlds where the Imperium can have little direct say - hence the relative autonomy of world governments in places like the Spinward Marches and sub-sector dukes acting like a 'local emperor'.

In S:3 Library data the Imperium is presented as being on the decline (a portent of the Rebellion perhaps?) and in the early adventures and double adventures the Imperium is notable by its limited involvement with the PCs' activities. Once the IN became the big ship paradigm with a budget to put a squadron of escorts in every single system in the Spinward marches it becomes a bit of a stretch for the Imperium to not be heavily influencing everything.

 

[aramis]

He named his hero "Kyp". Kyp Durron. I refer to him as Dip Durron.

The first book in the series, Jedi Search, averages 3.5 stars with 39% giving it 5 stars and 17% giving it 4 stars.

Somebody likes his writing. Maybe they're all young adults. I dunno. I think his stuff smells like it's been beat with the pooper stick.




I read House Atreides--I don't think I finished it. The ideas in it were actually pretty good. It was the writing that I thought was so bad about it. I started noticing that some chapters were OK-to-decent to read. None of it was up to the high standard set by elder Herbert. But, for some chapters, I thought it was good enough to read. Then, other chapters, while the story was good, the ideas were just not presented in a good way. I'm not a snob when it comes to writing. Heck, I read comic books. But, doggone if it wasn't hard to keep my interest on some of those chapters.

I can only guess that some of the chapters were primarily written by Brian Herbert, and the others were primarily written by KJA. I have not idea if the two worked that way. It's just a guess because some of the chapters are noticeably worse than others.

I think I may try the audiobooks for these, one of these days. I'm hoping that will help be get over my dislike for KJA's work.

Having red Brian's own writing (in Road to Dune), Kevin isn't the problem...

Brian's a plots & characters guy. Kevin's a dialogue guy. The two found their best work in Hunters and Sandworms - which is what Franks notes for Dune 7 were translated into (Brian once mentioned his father planned a massive 600 page tome for Dune 7.)

Note also: Kevin was involved in the Dune RPG project for Last Unicorn Games. So also was Brian. They were the editors, and that's a fine looking and very usable book. I wish I'd bought two - because I sold one for well more than I paid.

 

[Supplement Four]

They were the editors, and that's a fine looking and very usable book. I wish I'd bought two - because I sold one for well more than I paid.

Yeah, I saw what they were going for, BITD, got in my car, and drove down to a game store where I had seen two copies. When I got there, there was only one copy left. I bought it for cover price, drove home, looked at it for two days, then sold it on the net for $150.

From those two days, though, it looked to be a good game.

Wasn't there a d20 version published?

 

[Timerover51]

I have some odd inspiration ideas to toss out. I just finished reading the Osprey book on the War of the Roses, which of course talks a lot of the casualty list amoung the nobility during the wars, but also covers what happened to the wives and daughters of the nobility viewed as rebels. Along with that I have been reading C.W.C. Oman's one volume history of England, where he primarily focuses on the rulers, and what happens when a favorite is no longer in favor, which also tended to be a bit fatal. Then there is Oman's history of the Byzantine Empire, where the diadem, at times, sat a bit uneasily on the Emperor's brow. All of that is not grist for my mill of what might happen to the Inobles of the Imperium if things go wrong for them.

If you get the idea that I like C.W.C. Onam, you would be correct. In his History, he has little, if any use, for the Stuart Kings of England, and actually has some nice words for Oliver Cromwell. His books may be found on Project Gutenberg.