LeperColony
Traveller Card Game Dev Team
Even Star Citizen had to drastically reduce the number of planets it (plans) to have.
Thoughts on the new Traveller game?
- Thread starter Garyius2003
- Start date
Even Star Citizen had to drastically reduce the number of planets it (plans) to have.
Argh. Browser hiccup and lost my typing. I'll try again.
EQ, as an example, no longer has lines for different zones. With the exception of the highest levels, right now level 105 to 110. EQ, EQ 2, LotR online, and World of Warcraft have large mapped areas. I haven't seen crowding in EQ, nor in EQ 2 in years. I haven't played LotR Online in a long time so I don't know. WoW areas I gamed in were fairly empty for low levels.
Most of the rest of the zones are very empty. More of the game planet is mapped. And Daybreak Games has added EQ instances for zones with few monsters, so its easier to get quests.
Many of the MMOs I have playeed over the past 10 years have huge areas for adventuring, No waiting around.
So the Traveller game could do the same. Several servers, several sectors, instanced zones. Spaceports where players could meet up.
I used to browse through a web site, no idea if it is still there, that listed reviews of MMOs, player numbers, basic info about it, cost/free, link to the game site/forums, etc.
I like paper and pencil... but finding a local game is almost impossible. Everyone in my area is either playing ad&d 5E, or solo games on their cell phones.
EQ, as an example, no longer has lines for different zones. With the exception of the highest levels, right now level 105 to 110. EQ, EQ 2, LotR online, and World of Warcraft have large mapped areas. I haven't seen crowding in EQ, nor in EQ 2 in years. I haven't played LotR Online in a long time so I don't know. WoW areas I gamed in were fairly empty for low levels.
Most of the rest of the zones are very empty. More of the game planet is mapped. And Daybreak Games has added EQ instances for zones with few monsters, so its easier to get quests.
Many of the MMOs I have playeed over the past 10 years have huge areas for adventuring, No waiting around.
So the Traveller game could do the same. Several servers, several sectors, instanced zones. Spaceports where players could meet up.
I used to browse through a web site, no idea if it is still there, that listed reviews of MMOs, player numbers, basic info about it, cost/free, link to the game site/forums, etc.
I like paper and pencil... but finding a local game is almost impossible. Everyone in my area is either playing ad&d 5E, or solo games on their cell phones.
Like the others have said, it could be done in manageable chunks. Start with a subsector, add another, add another, wash, rinse, repeat. Instead, their website mentions something about presenting the Domain of Deneb right off the bat. They're also going with scouts, navy, and mercs before traders.
No developers listed, still learning Unity, and a website which someone spending an hour at GoDaddy could do better than. My Kickstarter dollars will stay in my pocket for now, thank you.
Jim, I'll take your word for it, but I've all but given up online gaming because of all the trolling and lack of moderation. Not a day goes by when I don't get team killed with some shooter, or an ally intentionally drops with an RTS, or some player spouts off a diatribe of racist venom. And I figured whoever's running EQ and whatever sequels or addons has probably fixed a lot of issues, but to me the barbarians have stormed the gates, and the occasional troll or punk ruining a game is now mainstream.
Just me ranting. Me ---> :rant:
Just me ranting. Me ---> :rant:
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
If it were me doing it, I'd start with a good character generation system that was expandable. Lots of detail and variety. My suggestion, to keep with the flavor of Traveller as a game would be:
Characters have a life span, just like in the game. There's some time mechanism that will eventually have your character grow into old age and either retire or die. To offset that you can pass on equipment to other characters or trade it to other characters. I'd make really sure you can get good character "skins" and even buy better ones if you want a custom one that looks terrific.
The game is a you die you die type. That is your character dies, you have to get a new one.
Offsetting that, you can choose to generate either a young character with lots of life and little skills, or generate an older one that has a bunch of skills.
Death in character generation is removed. Instead, the character gets things like scars and other "character" on their skin / avatar for failed "rolls."
The older characters get more gear but it's not the premium stuff unless you want to pay real $$$$ for it, and even then you can't get the best stuff that can only be bought within the game.
Within the game there is a limited premium equipment system available. Some items are readily available if you have the $$$$ to spend on them. For example, make ships purchasable with real money for a pretty hefty price. You get to keep the ship and can even designate multiple owners in case you die. Sort of will it off to another character, yours or somebody else's.
You can also buy ships within the game but you'll have to work hard to get the cash and keep the cash coming to pay for it. That is, you can buy on game credit but there's a repo clause if you don't make the payments (ie., play the game a lot to make money to pay for the ship). If you make buying and keeping a ship on the pricey side you limit player's ability to race around the galaxy fighting evil. They have to spend more time in the system they're in and on the world they're on.
Make an alternative where you can purchase tickets on a ship going to other systems, like in the game.
Don't do a whole subsector. Do a world and other worlds within six to 8 parsecs. Limit the initial ships available to J1 or 2. Fully work out each system with all its planets, satellites, etc., including motion and such.
Make sure the money system allows a player to put money into the game but not be able to buy their way through it.
The hard part would be generating quests. Start by populating the world(s) with lots of NPC's. Use a system that generates random patrons, quests, etc., for a player or party of players. Once a player or party decides to accept a quest or mission, they either complete it (not necessarily in one session) or they can dismiss / end it at any time but it doesn't reappear for them later. They have to move to a new one.
Make it absolutely clear to players that this is a PvP game as much as anything else. But, put in restrictions that prevent very powerful players from attacking weak ones other than in ways that won't get them killed. That is, a powerful character can attack a weak one, but you will injure the weak guy at most and get little for it.
Introduce a means of gaining skills that is tiered on both the difficulty of the tasks / training done to master it as well as the number of times attempted. This should be an exponential scale where getting above about level 3 in a skill is really going to take a lot of effort.
Allow some skills to be purchased to level 1 and any to be to level 0. If somebody is willing to pay to get a level 0 in 20 skills, let them. It won't buy them much anyway and you could probably get most in the game by playing pretty quickly anyway.
Back to the quest thing. The quests could be randomly generated like they are in the game now with the system setting up each quest as it is initiated. These would mostly be simple ones that require only a bit of effort to carry out. The most difficult ones are pre-generated and randomly assigned by the system to players. There might be criteria for these where they have to be in a certain size party, or have certain skills, that sort of thing. If you don't have those skills or party size you'll never see the quest.
On a world with millions or billions of people, the system packs the streets with NPC's and there are lots of buildings / shops, etc., that can be explored. Think making it like a portion of a city for the players. Players can tell other players from NPC's and there is some ability depending on skills to pick out patrons and where quests can be gotten from.
This would mean you have to hunt for quests and missions, would get into random situations (eg., run into the equivalent of a "monster" say like a pickpocket takes a piece of your gear. You have catch him or it's gone... stuff like that).
You can rent a room or space to rest in, and pile your gear in. This would be set up where it's a "safe" space and only you can enter it. How much room you have is purchasable with real cash.
Well, there's a few ideas I'd implement in the initial version.
Characters have a life span, just like in the game. There's some time mechanism that will eventually have your character grow into old age and either retire or die. To offset that you can pass on equipment to other characters or trade it to other characters. I'd make really sure you can get good character "skins" and even buy better ones if you want a custom one that looks terrific.
The game is a you die you die type. That is your character dies, you have to get a new one.
Offsetting that, you can choose to generate either a young character with lots of life and little skills, or generate an older one that has a bunch of skills.
Death in character generation is removed. Instead, the character gets things like scars and other "character" on their skin / avatar for failed "rolls."
The older characters get more gear but it's not the premium stuff unless you want to pay real $$$$ for it, and even then you can't get the best stuff that can only be bought within the game.
Within the game there is a limited premium equipment system available. Some items are readily available if you have the $$$$ to spend on them. For example, make ships purchasable with real money for a pretty hefty price. You get to keep the ship and can even designate multiple owners in case you die. Sort of will it off to another character, yours or somebody else's.
You can also buy ships within the game but you'll have to work hard to get the cash and keep the cash coming to pay for it. That is, you can buy on game credit but there's a repo clause if you don't make the payments (ie., play the game a lot to make money to pay for the ship). If you make buying and keeping a ship on the pricey side you limit player's ability to race around the galaxy fighting evil. They have to spend more time in the system they're in and on the world they're on.
Make an alternative where you can purchase tickets on a ship going to other systems, like in the game.
Don't do a whole subsector. Do a world and other worlds within six to 8 parsecs. Limit the initial ships available to J1 or 2. Fully work out each system with all its planets, satellites, etc., including motion and such.
Make sure the money system allows a player to put money into the game but not be able to buy their way through it.
The hard part would be generating quests. Start by populating the world(s) with lots of NPC's. Use a system that generates random patrons, quests, etc., for a player or party of players. Once a player or party decides to accept a quest or mission, they either complete it (not necessarily in one session) or they can dismiss / end it at any time but it doesn't reappear for them later. They have to move to a new one.
Make it absolutely clear to players that this is a PvP game as much as anything else. But, put in restrictions that prevent very powerful players from attacking weak ones other than in ways that won't get them killed. That is, a powerful character can attack a weak one, but you will injure the weak guy at most and get little for it.
Introduce a means of gaining skills that is tiered on both the difficulty of the tasks / training done to master it as well as the number of times attempted. This should be an exponential scale where getting above about level 3 in a skill is really going to take a lot of effort.
Allow some skills to be purchased to level 1 and any to be to level 0. If somebody is willing to pay to get a level 0 in 20 skills, let them. It won't buy them much anyway and you could probably get most in the game by playing pretty quickly anyway.
Back to the quest thing. The quests could be randomly generated like they are in the game now with the system setting up each quest as it is initiated. These would mostly be simple ones that require only a bit of effort to carry out. The most difficult ones are pre-generated and randomly assigned by the system to players. There might be criteria for these where they have to be in a certain size party, or have certain skills, that sort of thing. If you don't have those skills or party size you'll never see the quest.
On a world with millions or billions of people, the system packs the streets with NPC's and there are lots of buildings / shops, etc., that can be explored. Think making it like a portion of a city for the players. Players can tell other players from NPC's and there is some ability depending on skills to pick out patrons and where quests can be gotten from.
This would mean you have to hunt for quests and missions, would get into random situations (eg., run into the equivalent of a "monster" say like a pickpocket takes a piece of your gear. You have catch him or it's gone... stuff like that).
You can rent a room or space to rest in, and pile your gear in. This would be set up where it's a "safe" space and only you can enter it. How much room you have is purchasable with real cash.
Well, there's a few ideas I'd implement in the initial version.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Attitude doesn't translate to good code.
It's really tough to make mixed scaling solutions in the same space.
By that I mean things that operate at high speed vehicle like starships and gravtanks, slower wheeled/tracked, and human speed. You can readily optimize for one or the other, but mixing is difficult.
A major issue though, rendering 64+ players in motion, should be able to be deferred until the army/merc module.
It's really tough to make mixed scaling solutions in the same space.
By that I mean things that operate at high speed vehicle like starships and gravtanks, slower wheeled/tracked, and human speed. You can readily optimize for one or the other, but mixing is difficult.
A major issue though, rendering 64+ players in motion, should be able to be deferred until the army/merc module.
I played through most of them starting Ultima Online and EQ. The developers of successor games were aware of the early issues with MMORPGs and not just a solution but several solutions were developed to address each of them. For example waiting in line to kill something was eliminated by the spread of instanced adventures. When you pass the portal you and your group get moved into a separate space. For profanity and racial slurs, many implemented strong filters. But some deliberately don't so one should read the tin so to speak.
Now there is a huge variety of MMORPGs each with their own take. My current favorite is Lord of the Rings Online which is pretty sedate and roleplaying heavy. You can play the crafting and leveling game or particpated in the quests that make up its story. Currently my character is making his way down to Dunharrow helping various Rangers of Grey Company make it there in answer to Aragon's call to meet him at the Path of the Dead.
A Traveller MMORPG could work. Imagine Eve Online set during the Long Night period, Rebellion period, New Era, or during the rise of the 3rd Imperium. Their system of system control, resource extraction, and ship building could easily translate into some type of Pocket Empire scenario.
The emergent gameplay of Eve's mechanics is amazing enough that there are academics writing sociological histories of what happened with the game. And it is still ongoing.
And just a way of slicing the MMORPG bread. It can be done and be fun but one needs a plan other than acquire and learn the tech.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I have been at WWIIOL for nearly two decades now, its a relic in some ways, not least of which it is GM'd and an older crowd and the nuts get booted, eventually.
There are hacks and cheats but everyone complains fast and loud and they do eventually get hunted down and banned, and there are only the company servers so no homegrown horrors.
I understand that company held the Traveller license for a time, and it does have a technology for handling large planetary distances and mixed mover/shooters, but I don't think it would scale well to modern graphics sensibilities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_Online
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Folks have to appreciate that with MMORPG games, they're GAMES first, and RPGs second.
The populations tend to be pretty varied, which folks at both ends of the bell curve, but "the game" is empowering your character.
After that comes non-play elements like just wandering the land, following the story, trading, etc. etc.
Because, simply, if you want to see the content, as the content was designed, you need to empower your character. Powerful character do end game content. End game content is there to empower you character for the next phase of end game content (rinse and repeat).
As much as there are stories and adventures, those fall away quite quickly.
Watching the little animated character run through their scripted event the 10th time -- not really interesting. Especially when everyone else has seen it for their 10th time as well.
In the end, the game relies on mechanics and game play. Getting equipment to empower the character, all the better to conquer the content that much faster so that you can get though it quicker and get more gear, or currency for gear, or simply chances at the slot machine for gear -- whatever it is that you need to do to "get more".
The STORY is interesting for about 2 weeks out of a 1-2 years expansion. Every update within that release pumps out maybe 1-2 hours of "story" before you hit the treadmill again.
Now, a Traveller based shooter, like Half Life, that's a different animal. That's ALL story connected together with combat. Once you get through the 20-40 hrs of game play, there's not much replay value to it.
Eve is successful because of its sandbox nature. There IS no story. The PLAYERS are the story. The corporations and their politics and drama as it manifests on "known space". This, of course, is good and bad.
Star Citizen -- heh, don't get me started on Star Citizen. My Doctor recommends I do not comment on SC.
A Single Player RPG, ala Skyrim, set in a subsector, that has a subsector wide story arc (no doubt dealing with the nobility and the Imperium), along with 10-15 "worlds" with their own sub plots (that are or, are not, tied to the larger story line) and then some "empty" sand box worlds to just poke around on.
That could be compelling. No Mans Sky meet Skyrim in the Regina subsector either just before or just after the FFW.
The populations tend to be pretty varied, which folks at both ends of the bell curve, but "the game" is empowering your character.
After that comes non-play elements like just wandering the land, following the story, trading, etc. etc.
Because, simply, if you want to see the content, as the content was designed, you need to empower your character. Powerful character do end game content. End game content is there to empower you character for the next phase of end game content (rinse and repeat).
As much as there are stories and adventures, those fall away quite quickly.
Watching the little animated character run through their scripted event the 10th time -- not really interesting. Especially when everyone else has seen it for their 10th time as well.
In the end, the game relies on mechanics and game play. Getting equipment to empower the character, all the better to conquer the content that much faster so that you can get though it quicker and get more gear, or currency for gear, or simply chances at the slot machine for gear -- whatever it is that you need to do to "get more".
The STORY is interesting for about 2 weeks out of a 1-2 years expansion. Every update within that release pumps out maybe 1-2 hours of "story" before you hit the treadmill again.
Now, a Traveller based shooter, like Half Life, that's a different animal. That's ALL story connected together with combat. Once you get through the 20-40 hrs of game play, there's not much replay value to it.
Eve is successful because of its sandbox nature. There IS no story. The PLAYERS are the story. The corporations and their politics and drama as it manifests on "known space". This, of course, is good and bad.
Star Citizen -- heh, don't get me started on Star Citizen. My Doctor recommends I do not comment on SC.
A Single Player RPG, ala Skyrim, set in a subsector, that has a subsector wide story arc (no doubt dealing with the nobility and the Imperium), along with 10-15 "worlds" with their own sub plots (that are or, are not, tied to the larger story line) and then some "empty" sand box worlds to just poke around on.
That could be compelling. No Mans Sky meet Skyrim in the Regina subsector either just before or just after the FFW.
I think this plus small scale multiplayer (2 to 8 players) would have the best chance of success.
I used to do NOVALOGIC's Joint Operations a lot, but one player, a female (for whatever that's worth), is such a blatant hacker that it's just ridiculous. Everyone else who hacks has gotten a ban or account suspension. And now that the company's been bought out by some European firm and the servers are located in France or Belgium, it's just pretty suspicious as to how she's able to keep her account open.
One weekend last year I had allied players drop for Age of Empires 2, for 25 games in a row. There's another player there who routinely puts swastikas in his game title with a lot of racist or white supremacist garbage. One game an opposing player chopped through the forest protecting my castle right at the edge of my castles visibility, and other times other players are using boom hacks or invulnerability hacks. I tend to play Japanese because I like the civ, but Japanese infantry also get an attack bonus, and suddenly I can't kill a single Aztec or Mayan soldier with fully upgraded post Imperial Japanese Champions.
Hundreds of other examples, and no matter how many complaints I file, nothing's ever done. And, I'll add, that my Shift-Tab feature to see who you played with for Steam doesn't work, so if I suspect someone's hacking I have to hunt down their name, and for whatever reason Steam won't let me search via name, so I then have to hunt them down through Google. The list goes on.
And it doesn't matter what game I purchase, it's always the same. Sadly enough I know where a lot of it comes from, but I'll refrain here, and save it for my blog.
So, when I think of a Traveller MMORPG, to me it's just a license for every ill mannered pre-teen to come online, explore what Traveller is all about, and just make the whole experience as obnoxious as anything. If a big company like Steam won't hire moderators, or only exercise a limited amount of power to moderate their games, then woe to a smaller company like this one for a Traveller online game.
But, I'm just one guy, and the harrassment I experienced actually is extenuating. But when and if it happens for an RPG I grew up with and really love … it'll be par for the course, and in that way the final nail in the coffin.
I love games, I love books, and no amount of harassment is going to stop me from indulging in them as I see fit.
Yup.
You may be right: having never played a MMO I'll take your word for it.
+10. Even a small-scale, persistent world (Sea of Thieves and a few others) would be pretty cool.
MMOs are never as satisfying as you think they will be. Especially when you add in the playerbase. I try not to play any game that requires me to interact with strangers anymore.
Well, some zones are a pain. But I don't go there as I'm not in the 'must complete all content before next expansion is marketed' group.
I understand your view. There are complaints in the EQ forums. I use the game to relax in. Its completely different than all my other hobbies.
I must be the only player in the world that doesn't seem to attract all of these trolls, *-ists, etc. that everyone else comments about.
I've been playing WoW since the initial Alpha, and while I know such people exist, I don't see them.
I don't play much other online, but WoW has a large player base. I play(ed) Diablo 3 too.
Have I seen some stuff? Sure. Have I reported names? Sure. Have I reported people? Sure. I mostly report them because when you report someone two things happen. One, they vanish from your chat log, and, two, they get a 24 hour ignore. Given the diversity of the population, I simply never see them again and don't have to clean up my ignore list.
But after all this time, I have 1 person on my permanent ignore list, and he's there basically just because he's a very active trader in chat and I'm tired of listening to him.
At worst, I've seen bouts of immature, off color humor.
I've been kicked from groups, had kills/nodes/loot stolen from me, ganked and camped in PvP play. It's just no big deal, at least to me. Doesn't happen often.
I was even banned once for reporting a spammer (it was a bunch of spammers), that was funny. But, c'est la vie.
But the apparent rampant, wide ranging, continual toxicity that I hear about? No, I never see that. Not on any of my servers. Not in any of the public chat channels.
I've been playing WoW since the initial Alpha, and while I know such people exist, I don't see them.
I don't play much other online, but WoW has a large player base. I play(ed) Diablo 3 too.
Have I seen some stuff? Sure. Have I reported names? Sure. Have I reported people? Sure. I mostly report them because when you report someone two things happen. One, they vanish from your chat log, and, two, they get a 24 hour ignore. Given the diversity of the population, I simply never see them again and don't have to clean up my ignore list.
But after all this time, I have 1 person on my permanent ignore list, and he's there basically just because he's a very active trader in chat and I'm tired of listening to him.
At worst, I've seen bouts of immature, off color humor.
I've been kicked from groups, had kills/nodes/loot stolen from me, ganked and camped in PvP play. It's just no big deal, at least to me. Doesn't happen often.
I was even banned once for reporting a spammer (it was a bunch of spammers), that was funny. But, c'est la vie.
But the apparent rampant, wide ranging, continual toxicity that I hear about? No, I never see that. Not on any of my servers. Not in any of the public chat channels.
