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Tigress Spinward Marches Deployment

Swiftbrook

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What do you think .... ?

I'm developing the make-up of the 208th fleet operating in the Five Sisters subsector of the Spinward Marches. There are 'several' Tigress class dreadnoughts in the subsector.

CT Fighting Ships said:
At present, only one Tigress class BatRon is deployed in the Spinward Marches, assigned to 23rd Fleet, at Rhylanor. Additional Tigress class BatRons are generally assigned one per sector.

Deployment: In war, the ideal deployment of any BatRon is together, as a unit. In peace, various Tigresses are often scattered throughout a region on peacekeeping missions, or to show the flag. Several individual Tigresses have been deployed among the worlds of the Five Sisters Subsector to enforce the Amber Zone blockade of Candory and Andor.

So do you interpret this to say that there are Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector in addition to the eight with the 23rd Fleet ...

OR

Are the Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector several of the eight assigned to the 23rd Fleet?

I originally thought that the Five Sisters ships were part of the 23rd Fleet on special assignment. I've been rereading it and I'm not sure.

What do you think?

-Swiftbrook
 
So do you interpret this to say that there are Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector in addition to the eight with the 23rd Fleet ...

The 212th you mean.

OR

Are the Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector several of the eight assigned to the 23rd Fleet?
I've always interpreted it to mean the second possibility.


Hans
 
What do you think .... ?

I'm developing the make-up of the 208th fleet operating in the Five Sisters subsector of the Spinward Marches. There are 'several' Tigress class dreadnoughts in the subsector.



So do you interpret this to say that there are Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector in addition to the eight with the 23rd Fleet ...

OR

Are the Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector several of the eight assigned to the 23rd Fleet?

I originally thought that the Five Sisters ships were part of the 23rd Fleet on special assignment. I've been rereading it and I'm not sure.

What do you think?

-Swiftbrook

I'd go for "several of the eight" otherwise a BatRon from another sector would have to be broken up and transported huge distances. This would leave a system weakened (Assuming a Tigress BatRon makes any real difference, which I doubt.) It would be a poor military practice.

My question would be "Just what is going on around Candory and Andor that needs 'Several' Tigresses to deal with it"? And an Amber Zone blockade at that...
 
My question would be "Just what is going on around Candory and Andor that needs 'Several' Tigresses to deal with it"? And an Amber Zone blockade at that...
Nothing says the several Tigresses can't have been there one after another over several years.

That said, I don't think they're using Tigresses because they couldn't enforce the blockade with smaller ships, I think they're used for emphasis. "These worlds are interdicted, so stay away. And we MEAN it!!"


Hans
 
In a retrospecive point of view T:1248 mentions that the Droyne of Andor colonized Candory around -7000 and that the 3I had always suppressed how advanced these Droyne were from the public (TL D in IY1248). Prior to 1248 the two worlds were separate oytrip, but had recently merged to form one oytrip.

So a two world Droyne empire? Where is Grandfather when you need it?
 
My question would be "Just what is going on around Candory and Andor that needs 'Several' Tigresses to deal with it"? And an Amber Zone blockade at that...

In a retrospecive point of view T:1248 mentions that the Droyne of Andor colonized Candory around -7000 and that the 3I had always suppressed how advanced these Droyne were from the public (TL D in IY1248). Prior to 1248 the two worlds were separate oytrip, but had recently merged to form one oytrip.

So a two world Droyne empire? Where is Grandfather when you need it?

Yes, I believe they are Droyne worlds. And yes, the Third Imperium is stating KEEP OUT!

I envision one stationed at each world 24/7. A third (and fourth?) Tigress is patrolling the subsector and slightly beyond. About every two to three months a patrol Tigress takes up blockade duty and that Tigress goes on patrol. Sitting in blockade duty 24/7/365 is just a recipe for an unprepared ship.

Also, I see these two worlds as so important to the 3rd Imperium that the ships for this blockade could have been specifically built for this duty and not part of the full battron at Rylanor. The 3rd Imperium wants to protect those worlds and not tick off Grandfather.
 
Yes, I believe they are Droyne worlds. And yes, the Third Imperium is stating KEEP OUT!

I envision one stationed at each world 24/7. A third (and fourth?) Tigress is patrolling the subsector and slightly beyond. About every two to three months a patrol Tigress takes up blockade duty and that Tigress goes on patrol. Sitting in blockade duty 24/7/365 is just a recipe for an unprepared ship.

Also, I see these two worlds as so important to the 3rd Imperium that the ships for this blockade could have been specifically built for this duty and not part of the full battron at Rylanor. The 3rd Imperium wants to protect those worlds and not tick off Grandfather.

All logical arguments. But why and Amber zone if the above is the reasoning? Sounds like that should be BRIGHT Red!
 
All logical arguments. But why and Amber zone if the above is the reasoning? Sounds like that should be BRIGHT Red!

It's a mistake. There is no such thing as an amber zone blockade. And the travel zones for Andor and Candory are red.


Hans
 
My question would be "Just what is going on around Candory and Andor that needs 'Several' Tigresses to deal with it"? And an Amber Zone blockade at that...

In a retrospecive point of view T:1248 mentions that the Droyne of Andor colonized Candory around -7000 and that the 3I had always suppressed how advanced these Droyne were from the public (TL D in IY1248). Prior to 1248 the two worlds were separate oytrip, but had recently merged to form one oytrip.

So a two world Droyne empire? Where is Grandfather when you need it?


If it hasn't been already mentioned, I seem to recall in the GURPS material on Andor & Candory (GT: Behind the Claw?) that on Andor a Droyne leader has apparently emerged with markings that do not correspond to any known Droyne caste who is the leader of the super-Oytrip, and is called "Muodray" (Oynprith: "Little Father")
 
What do you think .... ?
Are the Tigresses deployed in the Five Sisters subsector several of the eight assigned to the 23rd Fleet?
I originally thought that the Five Sisters ships were part of the 23rd Fleet on special assignment. I've been rereading it and I'm not sure.
What do you think?
-Swiftbrook

Hi,

I assumed there was a Tigress at each of the 5 worlds around Candor and Andor to enforce the blockade. Mongoose Sector Fleet which I assume is not canon gives 2 second line battleships at Karin with the Subsector Fleet.

Given the distance of 5 Sisters from the rest of 3I I would think even a single battleron is a little light for defence, especially if there is a mutual defence pact with the Dariens & the Imperium is obliged to send assistance.

Kind Regards

David
 
It's a mistake. There is no such thing as an amber zone blockade. And the travel zones for Andor and Candory are red.
Hans

Yes the Amber zone applies to the 5 planets around Candory & Andor, which makes you wonder if there are any planets in sector P of Foreven within J3 of them and if there are 3I forces there....

Kind Regards

David
 
Given the distance of 5 Sisters from the rest of 3I I would think even a single battleron is a little light for defence, especially if there is a mutual defence pact with the Dariens & the Imperium is obliged to send assistance.

I look at this from the other side of the glass. One Tigress is complete overkill for the entire subsector. There is no real threat of invasion, leading, trailing, spinward or rimward. No planet or multi-planet political unit in the area would have the funds to build anything close to threatening a single Tigress. Significant Zhodani forces are half a sector away and Aslan even farther.

Now an invasion from either Alsan or Zhodani to get to Candory & Andor would make for an interesting adventure.
 
According to Spinward Marches Campaign, 212th is identified at Rhylanor at the outbreak of the FFW (1107), with the 23rd at what appears to be Frenzie in Vilis subsector. My beat up ol' Supplement 9, Fighting Ships, confirms 212th at Rhylanor: "At present, only one Tigress class BatRon is deployed in the Spinward Marches, assigned to 212th Fleet, at Rhylanor. Additional Tigress class BatRons are generally assigned one per sector. Deployment: In war, the ideal deployment of any BatRon is together, as a unit. In peace, various Tigresses are often scattered throughout a region on peacekeeping missions, or to show the flag. Several individual Tigresses have been deployed among the worlds of the Five Sisters subsector to enforce the amber zone blockade of Candory and Andor."

(The use of past tense may indicate that they were deployed there in the past but are not deployed there as of the date of Supplement 9.)

According to MegaTrav's Rebellion Sourcebook, 23rd is at Rhylanor as of 1116, prior to the onset of the rebellion. I believe there was some sort of administrative restructuring after the FFW. I'm curious as to where you found a Supplement 9 mentioning the 23rd. Was there some late reprint of Supplement 9 with different info?

If you really want Tigresses at Candory and Andor, they could be on permanent independent assignment, not attached to any squadron but answering directly to 208th fleet HQ at - Karin? - and therefore don't count toward that 1-per-sector thing. Those two red zones are rather special; the Tigresses with their large number of fighters would be particularly well-equipped to patrol it. However, a decent carrier could do the same thing. I don't see opposition in that quarantine that would require a dreadnought's armor and firepower.

You could also decide that they come out of the Trojan Reaches fleet. I don't know much about that sector but it doesn't look like it's facing any major opponents, so it may have capacity to detach a couple of ships from a squadron to help the Marches fleet out with a quarantine. Unless something's going on in Urnian subsector over in - Foreven? - Five Sisters doesn't look like it would need a significant force other than for the two red-zone blockades. Running a couple of dreadnoughts on detached duty from Trojan Reaches in support of 208th would allow the Imperials to run an understrength fleet in Five Sisters: a couple dispersed cruiser or carrier squadrons - dispersed squadrons of Arakoine-class strike cruisers perhaps (seems a fair use for an unarmored cruiser whose only other role would be to threaten inhabited worlds that lacked much ability to shoot back), or Wind-class strike carriers - with individual ships posted among the various Five Sisters systems neighboring Candory and Andor to watch for ships that might try to jump to or from the two worlds, along with the support ships and administrative structures needed to support the red-zone.
 
In 1248, the 2 world oytrip "empire" is considered "very outgoing and friendly" as far as that term can relate to Droyne in the first place. In 1248, they make their own starships, (again TL D) all at 2000dTons or less, but using "non-Imperial" design principles.

If one is to take other sources into account (excuse but I am at work):

By 1105, the Imperium knows that that Droyne on the various worlds are all the same species. I think the original AM2 states this

IIRC MGP's <b>Campaign 1: Secrets of the Ancients</b> at least some individuals in intelligence services of the Imperium, if not the services as a whole and as "official policy", have pieced together that the Droyne are the Ancients or at least tied to the Ancients and that "something" is manipulating human space.

Question One: Are these Droyne the most technologically advanced in or near the Third Imperium? That can be checked at travellermap.com but I cannot do the checking.

The Big Question: Is the blockade to keep others out or to keep the Droyne in?
 
The Big Question: Is the blockade to keep others out or to keep the Droyne in?


I would agree mostly: To keep the Droyne in.

However, it is also probably a consideration that the Imperium does not want the Zhodani to make contact with such an oytrip, considering their mutual psionic talents and the Zhodani fascination with both the Ancients and the modern Droyne. That could potentiality (in some minds) be a serious existential threat to the Imperium, should such contact result somehow in an advantage for the Zhodani.
 
...The Big Question: Is the blockade to keep others out or to keep the Droyne in?

I'll vote for, "Yes," as well.

The Droyne of those worlds are TL9, which means they could be spacefaring. However "pastoral" the droyne may like to be, there's just too much advantage in having satellites in your orbital space, so odds are good they've got some degree of spacefaring capability. That makes operating a blockade rather tricky unless the Imperium is aggressively preventing the Droyne from going into space. And, someone is operating starport facilities: Andor and Candory are unique among Marches red-zone world for having class-C starports.

Imperial naval facilities wouldn't code as a class-C starport: they'd be restricted to Navy use except for emergencies or unusual situations. Ergo, there is some degree of very tightly supervised contact between the two Droyne worlds and the Imperium - possibly Imperial research scientists and the like. If indeed the Imperials have drawn a link between the Droyne and the Ancients, then some Imperial authorities may believe that there are Ancient artifacts on the planet or that the local culture may have knowledge that might unlock the secrets of artifacts currently in Imperial possession. Either possibility is more than enough reason to minimize the risks associated with unsupervised Droyne leaving the two worlds or of unsupervised outsiders coming to the two worlds.
 
The Big Question: Is the blockade to keep others out or to keep the Droyne in?

Both... But, maybe, it's more like to control access to the worlds. Droyne traders might fly in and out, and some non-Navy may fly in and out, but it's all controlled to a greater or lesser degree.
 
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