Trade/Commerce Outside The Imperium

[Kilgs]

In a recent thread, folks were discussing Far Frontiers but the question goes for all of them. How do people handle trade/commerce such as freight standard rates, availability etc?

 

[robject]

None of my campaigns have ever been trade-based. The players were always more interested in finding trouble or solving problems than buying low and selling high.

So, in the few cases where trades were made, I used Book 3.

I detect a new poll!

 

[Adam Dray]

There are those of us out there who are very much interested in the trading game. I'm working on a campaign module that will set one up from muster-out to shopping for a broken ship and repairing it enough to make it space-worthy.

 

[GypsyComet]

In scattered state areas like FF, the freight rates may only be standard within a polity and possibly among the worlds nearby that deal with that polity. The rates may well be different in each polity, leading to PCs in the business of shipping having to untangle a lot of protectionist complication.

Out in the unaligned wilds, you'd better have sharp appraisal and negotiating skills, because you'll be using them at every stop.

 

[Selandia]

Talk about currency!

The prob is not "standard freight rate "1,000Cr vs non standard 1,100Cr, it is about 1,000 ImpCr vs 2,567 Zlotans

With a full load, do you have enough Zlotan to purchase what you need to keep in operation?

And is your stash of Zlotan usefull to pay your refit on a world where there is no exchange market for the Zlotan ?

That is the fun of the interface line.

have fun

Selandia

 

[salochin999]

In a recent thread, folks were discussing Far Frontiers but the question goes for all of them. How do people handle trade/commerce such as freight standard rates, availability etc?

This started as a short reply but turned into an epic.

#

Background

If you did want to look at freight rates I think what I'd do is say either

a) the standard rates are simply the standard Free Trader rates and don't apply to other ships

or

b) the standard freight rate is an Imperium thing to tie all the high value long distance trade into signing up for the subsidized merchant scheme (as they can be commandeered by the navy during war time) and push it through specific protected (and taxable) routes and doesn't apply outside the Imperium.

.

Either way the logic outside the Imperium could then become:

freight costs are a function of a ship type's operating cost per ton per parsec plus a profit margin

so either

1) calc all the operating costs per parsec for all the ship types and see which ships are cheapest along each route and make that cheapest rate the standard rate for that route - ships can still ship the cargo for a loss to avoid empty cargo space

or

2) make up a rough rule of thumb that is close enough.

There's a thread in the reference section that has calced values for some of this but for this example let's say the break even operating costs per jump of the standard ships at the max jump distance they are designed for comes to:

per jump
J1 ship: 800cr
J2 ship: 1600cr
J3 ship: 2400cr
J4 ship: 3200cr

and then add a 25% profit margin then they all end up charging 1000cr per parsec rather than per jump

so

standard freight: 1000cr per parsec per ton
standard passenger ticket: 8000cr or 10,000cr per parsec

.

If a shipment for a system J2 away would pay 2k per ton for two J1 trips taking four weeks then with per parsec pricing they'd pay up to 2k per ton for one J2 trip only taking two weeks.

If a passenger for a system J2 away would pay 16/20k for two J1 trips taking four weeks then they'd pay up to 16/20K for one J2 trip taking two weeks.

If the players had a higher Jn ship then they could try to join in by figuring out the ceiling on the multi-jump shipping rate between two distant systems. The ceiling would be the cost of the optimal jump route.

.

nb what I'm talking about here isn't trading along the route between two distant systems it's taking goods and passengers from A to B only stopping at systems along the way for refuelling / maintenance etc.

.

Calculating the optimal jump cost would be done on an individual system-system basis.

For example take District 268 and the route from Collace to Asteltine

http://travellermap.com/?x=-102.647&y=45.94&scale=61.8203125

then at 1000cr per parsec jumped

J4 freighters could do it in two jumps
Collace->Flexos->Astetine
rate: 8k per ton (eight parsecs jumped)
4 weeks

a J3 could do it in four jumps
Collace->Dallia->Flexos->Bowman->Asteltine
rate: 10k per ton (ten parsecs jumped)
8 weeks

a J2 in five jumps
Collace->Talos->Tarkine->Flexos->Bowman->Astetine
rate: 10k (ten parsecs jumped)
10 weeks

a J1 in fifteen jumps
rate: 15k
30 weeks

(or with a ferry between Tarkine and Flexos 9 jumps and a ferry jump, say 3k for a J2 ferry, 12k rate and 20 weeks)

so in this case J4 freighters would get this trade at a ceiling rate of 8k a ton (if there were enough of them to create competion)

if there weren't enough of them then J3s could join in at 10k per ton allowing the J4s to charge 10k a ton also (and potentally a time premium on top)

if there weren't any J4s out in the sticks then J2 and J3 have the same floor rate for this route - 10k per ton each - so even though the J2 takes twelve weeks instead of ten for the J3 if there weren't enough J3s to satisfy demand then J2 ships could still compete for freight as not all cargo would be time critical.

So
- if there were enough J4s then they'd get it at 8k per ton
- if there weren't enough then J4s and J3s would get it at 10k per ton
- if not enough J4s and J3s then J2s also at 10k per ton

(ignoring time premium for now but a simple rule of thumb might be 1k per saved week for time critical cargo)

Passengers would nearly all be time critical so long distance passengers would want the minimum time as well as minimum cost however if a passenger just missed a monthly ship that took six weeks they might board an available ship taking eight weeks.

If the ceiling rate on a trade route is below a ship's operating cost they can still take it as a loss is better than an empty hold.

##

Actual Rules

Change the standard rate to be per parsec actually jumped so
- freight: 1000cr per parsec jumped
- high passengers: 10,000cr per parsec jumped
- mid passengers: 8,000cr per parsec jumped

Sequence

1) for single jump trade use the standard rates

2) for multi-jump trade figure out the total number of parsecs jumped by ships with various Jn - the lowest amount becomes the ceiling rate and the lowest time the optimal time

3) roll for cargo and passengers using the standard rules and the stats of the start and destination systems

4) subtract D6 from the cargo rolls per two weeks the player's ship will take over the optimal time

5) subtract D6 from the passenger rolls per week over optimal time

6) players can take available long distance cargo and passengers at the ceiling rates

#

Example

Using the Collace to Asteltine example above say
- the players have a J2 ship
- there are no J4 freighters in his region so the optimal jump route is J3 with the values calculated previously of
--- ceiling rate is 10k
--- optimal time 8 weeks
- J2 takes ten weeks so time penalty of two weeks
- (if competing with J4s then time penalty would be 6 weeks)

So looking at the map the players can
1) calc cargo to a single jump destinations: Judice or Talos
or
2) calc cargo for a multi-jump destination.

http://travellermap.com/?x=-102.194&y=45.277&scale=61.8203125

Using the sequence above and the CT bk2 cargo tables, pg 11 (but others may be similar) the key factors are the pop and TL of the start and end systems.

Collace is pop 9, TL13
Asteltine pop 4, TL10

Cargo:
- D6+5 major cargo
- D6+6 minor
- D6-2 incidental
DMs
- DM-1 for pop 4 destination
- DM+3 for TL13 to TL10 difference
- DM-D6 for two weeks time penalty

Passengers
- high passengers 3D6-D6
- mid passengers 3D6
DMs
- DM-3 for pop 4 destination
- DM+3 for TL difference
- DM-2D6 for time penalty

Cargo and passengers taken on this way would be on the ship for the whole trip.

#

I would probably change the DMs for long distance trade though to make it more variable.

1) freight
- larger reduction for low pop destination
- less bonus for higher TL (as although a TL2 world might *want* DM+13 major cargoes from a TL15 world I doubt they could pay for it)

2) passengers
- larger reduction for low pop destination
- passengers increase going from low TL to higher TL
- passengers decrease going from high TL to low TL

so maybe

1) freight:
- use the lowest of the start and destination pop in the cargo tables
- higher TL to lower, DM+1
- lower TL to higher, DM-1

2) passengers
- use the lowest of the start and end pops in the passenger tables
- DM+(destination TL - source TL)

so in the example
- Collace pop 9, TL13
- Ateltine pop 4, TL10
then pop 4 is the lowest of the two so use column 4 in the cargo and passenger tables

cargo
- major cargoes: D6
- minor cargoes: D6+1
DMs
- DM+1 (higher tech to lower tech)
- DM-D6 (time penalty)

passengers
- high passengers: 2D-1D
- middle passengers: 2D-1D
passenger DMs
- DM-3 (destination TL 10 minus start TL13)
- DM-2D6 (time penalty)

This makes long distance trade more of a high pop to high pop thing.

##

Optional Extra Complications

1) star ports included in cargo and passenger calcs

2) The operating costs per parsec for higher Jn ships are generally higher if they jump less than their maximum - as the trip still takes two weeks and some of their monthly costs are fixed so they'd have to charge more.

For example a J4 ship's operating costs per parsec might be
J4 jump = 1k
J3 jump = 1.4k
J2 jump = 1.8k
J1 jump = 2.4k
so the cost of covering 4 parsecs would be
1xJ4: 4k
J3+J1: 6.6k
J2+J2: 7.2k
4xJ1: 9.6k
which would vary the optimal cost and time for each route if you wanted the extra detail.

3) optional additional geography - desert worlds with no gas giant avoided for long distance routes

using the same example Flexos would be out so
J4 route: Collace, Tarkine, Bowman, Asteltine, 11k, six weeks
J3 route: Dallia, Tarkine, Walston, Asteltine, 11k, eight weeks
J2 route: Judice, Dallia, Noctocol, Walston, Bowman, Asteltine, 11K, ten weeks

4) optional additional geography - non A/B star ports avoided for lack of refined fuel

1 in 36 chance of a misjump using unrefined fuel is pretty high and you'd think it would effect trade

some options
- small ship misjump DMs: ships <=200dt DM-1
- assume that large scale long distance trade routes only exist where they can be made with just A and B star ports
- add refined fuel to C star ports
- ships carry fuel purification equipment
- make misjump mean roll on misjump table where
1-3 = lose fuel
4 = lose fuel and minor damage to J-drive
5 = lose fuel and major damage to J-drive
6 = misjump somewhere else

all of these options would change the geography

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