Tramp trade in the Aramis Subsector

[Whipsnade]

If you have vehicles available at the equivalent TL as the weapons it can be argued that military vehicles might have recharging outlets on board APC's for charging the dismount's weapons. The power plant on the APC could also be used.

That's basically what LBB:1 says when introduces the laser carbine and laser rifle. The question now is whether a given merc outfit is going to have those kinds of vehicles.

LBB:4 is oddly silent on the costs patron will incur to hire vehicles, or the hiring cost of any other equipment for that matter. All we're given is the monthly salaries of the mercs themselves and how many shares each will receive at that ticket's end.

GT:SM, a flawed book in many respects, didn't overlook equipment hiring costs. I remember running the numbers for similar sized units of light infantry, mechanized infantry, and armor. I'd expected substantial increases between each unit, but the rate at which hiring costs exploded as more "ironmongery" was added still shocked me. IIRC, you could get a regiment or more of infantry backed by tube/rocket artillery for less than the price of a grav tank squadron.

APCs and like will certainly be able to recharge laser power packs but, given the costs involved, how often will a merc outfit have APCs?

 

[Riik O'Shae]

So, assuming a Battalion burning 1000 rounds per man per week.

Excuse me, but during the Tet Offensive/Vietnam/1968, guys firing from fixed emplacements, burned through 1000+/- rounds in a single Day...

Riik

 

[aramis]

Excuse me, but during the Tet Offensive/Vietnam/1968, guys firing from fixed emplacements, burned through 1000+/- rounds in a single Day...

Riik

true, but tet hardly is representative. Tet was peak maximal throughput... the kind where mercs simply quit, as it's safer.

 

[Murphy]

What's interesting.

I somehow failed to notice that original TTA contains an appendix with trade route maps for Tukera/Akerut, Oberlindes, Imperiallines and Naasirka in the subsector.

According to these maps and ships listed in another appendix, a fair bit (if not most) of freighters plying the routes are J-1 or J-2.

Only Oberlindes and Tukera (not Akerut) employ longer-jumping ships. But Oberlindes does not yet own the market and Tukera ships don't venture past the major routes - in fact they barely do any regular shipping within the subsector.

So that explains how a lone fat trader is going to cope.

Also I noticed that almost nobody services Patinir - if someone wanted to get their cargo there from anywhere in Towers cluster, a J-1 free trader wouldn't be the worst solution.

 

[rancke]

I somehow failed to notice that original TTA contains an appendix with trade route maps for Tukera/Akerut, Oberlindes, Imperiallines and Naasirka in the subsector.

According to these maps and ships listed in another appendix, a fair bit (if not most) of freighters plying the routes are J-1 or J-2.

Only Oberlindes and Tukera (not Akerut) employ longer-jumping ships. But Oberlindes does not yet own the market and Tukera ships don't venture past the major routes - in fact they barely do any regular shipping within the subsector.

I'm all in favor of sticking to canon, as long as canon makes sense. Sadly, this is one of the cases where it does not. Presumably whoever wrote it did not realize the ramifications of the shipbuilding rules and was under the mistaken impression that jump-1 was actually cheaper than jump-2 (an easy mistake to make). But using jump-1 ships to carry freight or passengers two parsecs is inefficient. Using them to cross two-parsec gaps is mindbogglingly inefficient. And the three-parsec gap between Lablon and Jesedispere calls for coining a new word to express the level of inefficiency for using jump-1 ships across it.

So that explains how a lone fat trader is going to cope.

A lone free trader can survive on the scraps left over by the regular shipping lines and speculative trade, provided it is lucky. Canonically, 9 out of 10 fledgeling lines fail within ten years. We don't have the numbers for free traders, but I don't think they can be any better.

Also I noticed that almost nobody services Patinir - if someone wanted to get their cargo there from anywhere in Towers cluster, a J-1 free trader wouldn't be the worst solution.

No, persuading a regular shipping line to divert one of its ships to Patinir would probably be worse. However, a jump-2 free trader would be a lot better.


Hans

 

[DangerousThing]

My memory (pfft, don't trust it, can't look it up now ) says the statement is along the lines of "...a high output power plant like a ship or vehicle power plant." Or words to that effect. Solar would be too low output to be practical at least (even if possible).

Several years ago a fellow traveller on another board made a battery charging circuit that took the dregs of dead non-rechargable cells and used that to charge rechargeable cells. Basically it used the nearly dead cell to charge the circuit until there was enough power to step-up the voltage and do a short charging cycle on the rechargeable cell.

This would work with solar power, stepping up the voltage until it could do a quick recharge cycle. Yes, it would take a long time compared to a ship's power supply, but it would work for wilderness recharging.

I could picture a circuit like that as part of any solar power system, or as part of a weapon.

IMTU I use improved batteries that can take almost anything as input to charge, and produce a standardized output.

 

[McPerth]

In any case, I think the solar cells shown in MT (the only version I know that details them) will be enough, as said before. see that a 3 x 3 meters cell (9 square meters) will have an output of 0.108 MW at Tl 9, and TL 12+ its output would be (at 0.081 Mw/m2) 0.729 Mw.

I see them a good option to recharge energy weapons and so easing ammo supply for comandos or other units with resupply dificulties.

 

[HG_B]

Canonically, 9 out of 10 fledgeling lines fail within ten years. We don't have the numbers for free traders, but I don't think they can be any better.

Which means that any independent operator who owns a Free trader had to save and buy for cash. NO bank would load Cr to purchase. I'm agreeing with you here Hans.

 

[Carlobrand]

Which means that any independent operator who owns a Free trader had to save and buy for cash. NO bank would load Cr to purchase. I'm agreeing with you here Hans.

Maybe there's an Imperial Fannie-Mae/Freddie-Mac type service, and an Imperial law that encourages ... oh wait, that one didn't end well, did it?

 

[Riik O'Shae]

Rules only say (AFAIK) that lasers may be reacharged from a power plant, and as I understand it, a portable solar one could do it (even if at a slower pace).

The main problem I have with this statement is that in time of war, all power plants are going to be targeted to deny the enemy's use...

Riik

 

[Carlobrand]

The main problem I have with this statement is that in time of war, all power plants are going to be targeted to deny the enemy's use...

Riik

Well, knocking out the city plant's not gonna stop the trooper in the field from recharging off his grav-jeep. In fact, the jeep's a higher priority target since it doubles as transport and travels with the unit. So, given the nature of power generation in Traveller, that's a little like saying all vehicles will be targeted - which, as in modern times, kinda depends on your resources and tactical circumstances. Not always achievable.

 

[McPerth]

The main problem I have with this statement is that in time of war, all power plants are going to be targeted to deny the enemy's use...

Riik

Sure, but a portable solar cell, thougt to carried by a small team to reload their energy weapons, can be quite difficult to locate (no neutrinos nor smoke, very little heat, if any, etc...).

And, anyway, if a comando team is located, the fact that their portable power plant to reload their lasers may be targeted is the lesser of their problems.

 

[HG_B]

Sure, but a portable solar cell, thougt to carried by a small team to reload their energy weapons, can be quite difficult to locate (no neutrinos nor smoke, very little heat, if any, etc...).

And, anyway, if a comando team is located, the fact that their portable power plant to reload their lasers may be targeted is the lesser of their problems.

On Earth at the equator the max solar is 1000 watts per square meter. Energy weapons would use a massive amount of power. Either you'd be carrying a lot of square meters worth of solar panels or, you would be waiting days to recharge even a laser pistol...

 

[McPerth]

On Earth at the equator the max solar is 1000 watts per square meter. Energy weapons would use a massive amount of power. Either you'd be carrying a lot of square meters worth of solar panels or, you would be waiting days to recharge even a laser pistol...

This is the energy that arrives form the sun or the maximum we (TL8 aprox solomani) can collect? (honest question, I have no idea).

As per MT rules, at TL 9 one square meter of solar cells has an output of 12 kw (12 times what you said), and a Tl 12+ 81 kw (at TL8 the output is 4 kw, 4 times what you say). Those are the numbers I was using, as I have no idea of real numbers on earth.

Neither do I have the smallest idea about how much energy does a laser rifle power pack store, not how much is used in each shoot, but a TL8 vehicle pulse laser may use as few as 30 kw for continuous use, being as powerful as a laser carabine, or 70 kw for continuous use being a little more powerful than a laser rifle (there are more powerful ones, off course), so I'll assume a laser rifle would use 60 kw for continuous use.

IIRC physics, that means that if you store 30 kw hour, you could fire a laser carabine continuously for an hour, or a laser rifle for about half an hour. To produce that amount of power on one square meter of solar TL9 cells (acording to MT numbers) you'd need 30/12, so 2.5 hours. And that would be to fire it continously for an hour (half that long for a rifle)...

To reacharge a 100 shot TL9 laser rifle power pack (assuming one shot per round and 3 sec per round, as in AHL action phase*) you'd need energy enough to fire it only for 300 sec (5 min), and that's about 5 kw hour stored per power pack, so you could recharge it in 12.5 min (nearly 5 full power packs per hour).

Even at the output level you say (1 kw), it would take only about 5 hours to fully load a power pack.

But as I told, that's thought for comando type troops, and, not being an expert in military operations, I'm afraid again that if a comando unit needs to fight for much longer than that they are in big trouble.

And, off course, those are MT numbers, whose power efficiency and calculations is not one of its strong points (to say the least), so numbers may be quite far from real physics, but are those in the game.

*NOTE: I guess there will be described the time length of a combat round in MT, but I don't find it right now, so I use the AHL round, even if that means to merge systems. Sorry for that.

 

[HG_B]

This is the energy that arrives form the sun or the maximum we (TL8 aprox solomani) can collect? (honest question, I have no idea).

Total, includes IR, UV, etc.

As per MT rules, at TL 9 one square meter of solar cells has an output of 12 kw (12 times what you said), and a Tl 12+ 81 kw (at TL8 the output is 4 kw, 4 times what you say). Those are the numbers I was using, as I have no idea of real numbers on earth.

I believe MT numbers are for being close to a star in a vacuum (star ship usage).

...a TL8 vehicle pulse laser may use as few as 30 kw for continuous use, being as powerful as a laser carabine,

That would require 30 panels, operating at the equator, on a sunny day, to charge for 1 second of use...

 

[McPerth]

Total, includes IR, UV, etc.

TY

I believe MT numbers are for being close to a star in a vacuum (star ship usage).

It's not specified (AFAIK), but I believe they are for vacuum (as you say) but for habitable orbit (e.g. for powersats). At least that's what I've always assumed...

That would require 30 panels, operating at the equator, on a sunny day, to charge for 1 second of use...

Or 1 panel for 30 seconds recharging for 1 second use...

Assuming the 1 kw output you say (and I don't cast doubt on it), you'll need a factor 30 for time to recharge vs time of use (factor 60 for laser rifles). That is about half an hour for a minute of using for a laser carabine, and an hour for a laser rifle. If conditions are not so optimal, time may be longer, but at least there's some capacity to reload your weapons.

This would mean one of such comando troopers will begin with 100 shots in the power pack and may be able to reacharge some if time is available (and it must be daytime, of course , but AFAIK comandos use to mostly act at night and rest while the day).

Enough? I don't know. How many rounds use to carry a comando trooper in mission?

As said earlier, I had to make too many assumptions and inferring for the information given.

 

[HG_B]

Enough? I don't know. How many rounds use to carry a comando trooper in mission?

As said earlier, I had to make too many assumptions and inferring for the information given.

It could be workable if you are on a low TL world. Otherwise, you are going to expose your position to overhead observation...

 

[McPerth]

It could be workable if you are on a low TL world. Otherwise, you are going to expose your position to overhead observation...

Relating it again with the OP (I was begining to feel gilty of thread kidnaping), in the case of Aramanx, the mercs shown in the Bk4 are TL 9-10 troops on a TL6 world. We can guess some other mercs on the same TL range are also operating there, but, as Wipsnade said, most of those mercs will care their resupply for themselves.

Of course, some of the warring powers could be interested on this equipment for some selected comando troops (trained by mercs), and might be hiring the players to carry the equipment...

 

[Riik O'Shae]

That would require 30 panels, operating at the equator, on a sunny day, to charge for 1 second of use...

At what Tech Level? Wouldn't a higher Tech Level have more efficient means of collection power from the sun?

Riik

 

[Riik O'Shae]

Enough? I don't know. How many rounds use to carry a comando trooper in mission?

Current Commandoes (US) carry ammo loadouts of around 180 rounds per man AND additional ammo for the crew served weapons. They are not supposed to encounter the enemy except on THEIR terms.

Riik