I've got BS Degrees (no pun intended) in Sociology and Criminal Justice. From junior high through college I never recall running into copyright laws in any class, except for some details on properly sourcing your essays to prevent accusations of plagarism. I also had government class "back in the 1980's" in high school, don't recall any copyright material being covered but it could just be my memory has completely forgotten it since I've never had to consider it since?
Traveller Fiction Copyright and MM approval
- Thread starter Grognard
- Start date
I've got BS Degrees (no pun intended) in Sociology and Criminal Justice. From junior high through college I never recall running into copyright laws in any class, except for some details on properly sourcing your essays to prevent accusations of plagarism. I also had government class "back in the 1980's" in high school, don't recall any copyright material being covered but it could just be my memory has completely forgotten it since I've never had to consider it since?
Yavin_Prime
SOC-7
I too 'am a writer and a self published one at that and I too would love the chance to write in the Traveller universe. I know many people think books based in IP are 'second rate' but to be honest I enjoy many Star Wars, Star Trek, and D&D books. Many authors have made their entire work just to write in a specific IP or at the very least have gotten their starts in the world of publishing within an IP.
I think Mr. MM should consider putting together a site or a small publishing house to allow writers to work with his IP because lets face it, its good publicity. I was introduced to Traveller through profantasy.com's map making programs which made refrence to being compatable with Traveller. With that said some random non-traveller fan could stumble upon a Traveller book in the book store or at the kindle store and think 'hey lets give it a shot' the next thing they do is buy a copy of the rulebook because they're interested in the franchise.
I do agree that the whole trademarking thing is a bit hazy. Its hard for Traveller to claim that someone is stealing when it has an IP that took ideas from some of the great sci-fi authors. Back in those days the Kazin of Larry Niven's books were even found in Star Trek so it seemed as though the exchange of ideas was more open in the 1950s-1980s. These days its not considered ok to copy or barrow concepts. However I feel that its a good thing because it adds depth and richness to an IP (two heads are better than one concept lol).
Well with that said I think it'd be a great idea to see some Traveller novels out there just because it would help Traveller gain publicity and stay alive as a franchise (not that its in danger of falling by the wayside).
Added Stuff: Lastly I wanted to point out that I think it'd be hard for the traveller IP to defend itself, since infact many of the concepts are torn from other authors. On the other hand if you can't write a novel in the Traveller universe you could always write a version of it with names changed and some major events changed and get away with it... in the end isn't that what Traveller does? I've heard refrence that the Hive are = to the Puppetiers and the Aslan are = to the Kizinti. I think where you'd get in trouble is if you were creating an RPG and you started to use rules and game concepts that were the same or very close to the same as Traveller's, then you'd be in trouble. Concepts however are very hard to defend. I remember when I was younger and starting one of my first books (that I never published) I wrote about a race that resembled the Kizinti long before I even began to read Mr. Niven's books. I was shocked and said hey! I thought of that. My point is that regardless of trademarks and such isolate someone who likes to write and imagine and chances are someone will eventually overlap the other without even knowing it. Heck even now after I've published my first book and 'am cleaing up my second and writing my third I find that I easily get influenced by movies, books, games, and other media that I happen to be experiencing at the time. It seems to be human nature and the best way to avoid it is to isolate yourself during your creative processes.
I think Mr. MM should consider putting together a site or a small publishing house to allow writers to work with his IP because lets face it, its good publicity. I was introduced to Traveller through profantasy.com's map making programs which made refrence to being compatable with Traveller. With that said some random non-traveller fan could stumble upon a Traveller book in the book store or at the kindle store and think 'hey lets give it a shot' the next thing they do is buy a copy of the rulebook because they're interested in the franchise.
I do agree that the whole trademarking thing is a bit hazy. Its hard for Traveller to claim that someone is stealing when it has an IP that took ideas from some of the great sci-fi authors. Back in those days the Kazin of Larry Niven's books were even found in Star Trek so it seemed as though the exchange of ideas was more open in the 1950s-1980s. These days its not considered ok to copy or barrow concepts. However I feel that its a good thing because it adds depth and richness to an IP (two heads are better than one concept lol).
Well with that said I think it'd be a great idea to see some Traveller novels out there just because it would help Traveller gain publicity and stay alive as a franchise (not that its in danger of falling by the wayside).
Added Stuff: Lastly I wanted to point out that I think it'd be hard for the traveller IP to defend itself, since infact many of the concepts are torn from other authors. On the other hand if you can't write a novel in the Traveller universe you could always write a version of it with names changed and some major events changed and get away with it... in the end isn't that what Traveller does? I've heard refrence that the Hive are = to the Puppetiers and the Aslan are = to the Kizinti. I think where you'd get in trouble is if you were creating an RPG and you started to use rules and game concepts that were the same or very close to the same as Traveller's, then you'd be in trouble. Concepts however are very hard to defend. I remember when I was younger and starting one of my first books (that I never published) I wrote about a race that resembled the Kizinti long before I even began to read Mr. Niven's books. I was shocked and said hey! I thought of that. My point is that regardless of trademarks and such isolate someone who likes to write and imagine and chances are someone will eventually overlap the other without even knowing it. Heck even now after I've published my first book and 'am cleaing up my second and writing my third I find that I easily get influenced by movies, books, games, and other media that I happen to be experiencing at the time. It seems to be human nature and the best way to avoid it is to isolate yourself during your creative processes.
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Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Because he put them there! He rewrote a Known Space story for the animated ST series.
Challenge is interested in publishing Traveller fiction:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23841
Yavin_Prime
SOC-7
Good point, still though it does seem that fiction is a place where ideas are often barrowed, intentionally or not.
I myself took a legit 4 day class and seminar on copyrights, trademarking and intellectual property laws at of all places, ComiCon International San Diego. While it was designed to educate artists and writers on how to keep their ideas their own (it was called ComicBook Law), it was really thorough and also good for 12cr toward keeping your bar certifications.
Finally, since it was free to attendees, there were a shocking amount of lawyers who were there for this class as the $120 for a 4-day Con membership was MILES cheaper than the normal 200-300 per credit they would have paid otherwise.
Finally, since it was free to attendees, there were a shocking amount of lawyers who were there for this class as the $120 for a 4-day Con membership was MILES cheaper than the normal 200-300 per credit they would have paid otherwise.
Yavin_Prime
SOC-7
So what did you learn though about this topic? It seems like it'd be hard to define what is and isn't IP. Some things are just in general public domain. It'd be hard for me to say that I wrote about a planet that orbits a gas giant (aka a moon hehe) and then have another person write about the same thing and then we fight over 'who owns the right' of that. I know thats a general example but its hard to say a concept belongs to anyone aside from solid names like the Aslan and the Solomani. However names like Imperium wouldn't be part of the IP since empire and imperium are just part of the common english language.
So I would think that a persons IP would only belong to things that are specific like jump drives and such, but travel taking a week (regardless of jump time) would be more in the public domain area. A writer just runs the risk of being to similar to established ideas and concepts.
Anyways thats the last I'm going to say on the topic because I fear we may be pulling the thread away from its intended discussion.
There's a general principle in academia: if you can find three unrelated sources which say the same thing, it's fair game.
There are several different sci-fi universes that use fixed durations for FTL. Two RPG's come immediately to mind: Traveller and Alternity both use fixed durations. Traveller is 7 days, Alternity is 5 days. Jon Tuffley's setting for Full Thrust also used fixed duration of 1 day. The problem is that "unrelated" bit... Alternity can hardly be said
Quite a few use near-instant, but with long travel times to/from jump point.
Warp Drive is so common in various forms...
But there are only so many variables in constructing an FTL solution
Q1: Travel through realspace, through an alternate space, or bypass space altogether.
Q2: fixed duration or open duration?
Q3: How far per unit duration?
Q4: How much is expended in performing that transit.
Q5: limited endpoints?
There are several different sci-fi universes that use fixed durations for FTL. Two RPG's come immediately to mind: Traveller and Alternity both use fixed durations. Traveller is 7 days, Alternity is 5 days. Jon Tuffley's setting for Full Thrust also used fixed duration of 1 day. The problem is that "unrelated" bit... Alternity can hardly be said
Quite a few use near-instant, but with long travel times to/from jump point.
Warp Drive is so common in various forms...
But there are only so many variables in constructing an FTL solution
Q1: Travel through realspace, through an alternate space, or bypass space altogether.
Q2: fixed duration or open duration?
Q3: How far per unit duration?
Q4: How much is expended in performing that transit.
Q5: limited endpoints?
Yavin_Prime
SOC-7
Thats a wonderful point and so very true. I hate to say it but Larry Niven's Kazinti have been morphed into so many forms that to be hoenst they're just plain common. I can think of three examples:
1) Larry Niven's works
2) Traveller
3) Wing Commander
4) Star Trek (if you count the Caitians not the Kazinti themselves)
So you're right if you can pick out three instances of it it would be hard to point a finger at an author and say "hey stop copying" the only thing you may get from critics is "he/she wasn't being origonal."
Lastly I know I wasn't going to drag this post to far off its mark anymore you just made a great point and I just had to speak up and agree with it.
Niven's aliens are spelled "Kzinti," (and the k is semi-elided when spoken).
I think there are more ways to come up with anthropomorphic felines than to read Larry Niven. It's not such a hugely innovative idea, after all. And if it was, we might as well accuse Niven (and Poul Anderson) of "stealing" Cordwainer Smith's Catpeople. So to hear of Niven's Kzinti being copied by anyone else always annoys me. Unless there are more points of similarity than being anthropomorphic aliens that resemble felines in some way[*]. The Aslan and the Hani aren't even tiger-like, they're lion-like!
[*] Or a specific statement by an author, of course.
Hans
Indeed. One could consult other sources...I think there are more ways to come up with anthropomorphic felines than to read Larry Niven. ...The Aslan and the Hani aren't even tiger-like, they're lion-like!
'We're off to see the Wizard, the Wonderful Wizard of Oz...'
[Niven was born the year before the movie was released!]
