Gernsback tech? aka Dieselpunk?
Also, I concur. SF is generally sexless. But it can go too far t'other way, all T&A. Sex overwhelms the story, and suddenly you get the Species series.
One needs to strike a balance.
Traveller is based in part in the works of Poul Anderson
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Also, I concur. SF is generally sexless. But it can go too far t'other way, all T&A. Sex overwhelms the story, and suddenly you get the Species series.
One needs to strike a balance.
*steeples fingers*
Well, my good man, let's see some proof of this salacious allegation.
"Man in the Maze" by Robert Silverberg, 1969 (there are others books of his with similar occurences)
There is a passage where the main character remembers one of his favorite things about a former lover was the way her breasts fitted pefectly into his cupped hands. There's also naked swiming (with tumescent nipples I belive) and naked prostitutes fleeing a brothel due to the "hero's" alien-altered psychic aura. And other things I forget.
Racy enough for you? :smirk:
"A Conspiração dos Imortais" by Marcia Guimarães, 2005
I actually had to translate this stuff...
"Then Werther felt an odd sensation on the back of his head. Like a blow, calling or command. A mighty mental vibration forced him to turn towards to man dancing with the golden-cosmetic female. He noticed the erection of the stranger and the excitment of his partner. She seemed to faint, the round hips scrapping against his groin, trembling. Uncontrolled, her tongue licked her own lips. Her eyeballs going around and around. The man held her by the hips and pulled her violently against his abdomen, he waited for her to cum. Then, he left."
There's worse...
Oh, and the Big Bad Corporation in the story is called "⌧'in Company".
I am not making this up.
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Heinlein's major books are replete with love and sex, and sexual themes and consequences such as pregnancy. His The Notebooks of Lazarus Long contain many references to sex as a natural part of human life.
I'd like to see more Heinleinesque influences in Traveller materials. Much more balanced and natural if you know that the characters are normal in that respect; once that is established, the Referee subsequently doesn't have to throw a woman at them in every episode like Captain Kirk.
I'd like to see more Heinleinesque influences in Traveller materials. Much more balanced and natural if you know that the characters are normal in that respect; once that is established, the Referee subsequently doesn't have to throw a woman at them in every episode like Captain Kirk.
ShapeShifter
SOC-13
I will be taking notes during my Heinlein readings, and trying to gather ideas from 50's SciFi movies. Perhaps all that will eventually take some form as CT-esque LBB's.
One thing I'd have to consider is ship designs: a) belly-landers, a la Flash Gordon (think in terms of the serial with Buster Crabbe, i.e. lots of smoke and sparks on take-off), or b) tail-sitters (which are more common in 1950's-1960's flicks). I'll reread projectrho to get more ideas about deckplans and other features.
Thanks for the translation from Portuguese.
o: The only Portuguese I know are the lyrics of Joao Gilberto and other Bossa Nova artists. :rofl: IMHO, Portuguese is several degrees sexier than most other languages, and perfect for spicy literature. Now, where's that dictionary... 
One thing I'd have to consider is ship designs: a) belly-landers, a la Flash Gordon (think in terms of the serial with Buster Crabbe, i.e. lots of smoke and sparks on take-off), or b) tail-sitters (which are more common in 1950's-1960's flicks). I'll reread projectrho to get more ideas about deckplans and other features.
Thanks for the translation from Portuguese.
o: The only Portuguese I know are the lyrics of Joao Gilberto and other Bossa Nova artists. :rofl: IMHO, Portuguese is several degrees sexier than most other languages, and perfect for spicy literature. Now, where's that dictionary... Gents,
What you're all missing here is Traveller's true attitude towards sexual content.
Traveller is not puritanical regarding sex.
Traveller is neutral regarding sex.
When you think about it, you will understand that being neutral is the wise move. When you're neutral, you say neither yes or no. When you're neutral, GM's can very easily add whatever they wish in whatever amounts they wish. When you're neutral, GM's aren't stuck removing what they don't want. Being neutral on the subject is the smart play.
You complain that there isn't enough references to sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes in your Traveller sessions and campaigns? Well, that lack is your fault because you failed to add those aspects to you game.
Traveller's published materials are deliberately designed to appeal to as many people as possible. In that they resemble cafeteria food or tofu. It's then up to you to "spice" the material to better meet the palettes of you and your players. There is nothing in Traveller that states "No additional spices allowed", in fact Traveller continually suggests that it's players embellish or season the published materials as they see fit.
Truth be told, I never heard of these complaints until joining Traveller internet discussions over a decade ago. My adventures and campaigns always contained sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes and I never once thought Traveller somehow forbid it. I had PCs/NPCs who frequented brothels, PCs/NPCs who used escorts, PCs/NPCs who kept different families on different worlds, NPCs who were sex workers, and just about everything else discussed here.
And no one batted an eyelash.
In the Troubleshooters campaign I've wrote about, one of the group's best information sources on Grote was an escort and in one session they helped frighten off someone stalking her. In the Active Duty IISS campaign, the players routinely spent their shore leave at a brothel just outside the base on Conway.
My groups and I handled also the topic somewhat differently from many of the groups and GMs I've sat in with at cons and in FLGS. First, we never role-played sex around the table just as we never role-played doing the laundry. Second, I never used sex as a routine way to entrap the players.
Too many GMs too often start a brawl whenever their players visit a bar, so their players stop visiting bars. Ditto brothels, ditto restaurants, ditto tattoo parlors, and ditto everything else. Normal activities, and sex is a normal activity, should have only normal possibilities for violence. They shouldn't be used as cliched traps for the players.
Too many GMs also too often threaten the in-game families and loved ones of their players. Sure, it's a quick way to get the players involved but, once they see family and loved ones as nothing but a handle for the GM, they'll stop having family and loved ones in the game.
Sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes can be part of any Traveller session. Just how much they should be a part is entirely up to you and you players however, because Traveller is wisely neutral on the subject.
If you want it included, include it. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't.
Regards,
Bill
What you're all missing here is Traveller's true attitude towards sexual content.
Traveller is not puritanical regarding sex.
Traveller is neutral regarding sex.
When you think about it, you will understand that being neutral is the wise move. When you're neutral, you say neither yes or no. When you're neutral, GM's can very easily add whatever they wish in whatever amounts they wish. When you're neutral, GM's aren't stuck removing what they don't want. Being neutral on the subject is the smart play.
You complain that there isn't enough references to sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes in your Traveller sessions and campaigns? Well, that lack is your fault because you failed to add those aspects to you game.
Traveller's published materials are deliberately designed to appeal to as many people as possible. In that they resemble cafeteria food or tofu. It's then up to you to "spice" the material to better meet the palettes of you and your players. There is nothing in Traveller that states "No additional spices allowed", in fact Traveller continually suggests that it's players embellish or season the published materials as they see fit.
Truth be told, I never heard of these complaints until joining Traveller internet discussions over a decade ago. My adventures and campaigns always contained sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes and I never once thought Traveller somehow forbid it. I had PCs/NPCs who frequented brothels, PCs/NPCs who used escorts, PCs/NPCs who kept different families on different worlds, NPCs who were sex workers, and just about everything else discussed here.
And no one batted an eyelash.
In the Troubleshooters campaign I've wrote about, one of the group's best information sources on Grote was an escort and in one session they helped frighten off someone stalking her. In the Active Duty IISS campaign, the players routinely spent their shore leave at a brothel just outside the base on Conway.
My groups and I handled also the topic somewhat differently from many of the groups and GMs I've sat in with at cons and in FLGS. First, we never role-played sex around the table just as we never role-played doing the laundry. Second, I never used sex as a routine way to entrap the players.
Too many GMs too often start a brawl whenever their players visit a bar, so their players stop visiting bars. Ditto brothels, ditto restaurants, ditto tattoo parlors, and ditto everything else. Normal activities, and sex is a normal activity, should have only normal possibilities for violence. They shouldn't be used as cliched traps for the players.
Too many GMs also too often threaten the in-game families and loved ones of their players. Sure, it's a quick way to get the players involved but, once they see family and loved ones as nothing but a handle for the GM, they'll stop having family and loved ones in the game.
Sex, sexual situations, or other adult themes can be part of any Traveller session. Just how much they should be a part is entirely up to you and you players however, because Traveller is wisely neutral on the subject.
If you want it included, include it. There's nothing in the rules that says you can't.
Regards,
Bill
Unless, of course, you're publishing under license, or holding an official game at a con. In which case, Marc's standards DO prohibit sexual content for those licensees released materials. The publications standards are explicitly "No sex, no lurid imagery."
That said, one of the funniest moments (triggered by a bout of Scout Brew) was a Baron waking up on a world with serious ZPG laws, with a mushy note, a blackout, and a ring... and His excellency had acquired a husband.... a Marine general and duke... the escapades of trying to find another world that both recognizes homosexuals as married AND allows cheap-n-easy no-fault divorce...
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Agreed. But...
Trueish, but you can only lead your horses to water...
Agreed, but often players come to a game with baggage carried over from previous games and previous GMs. I've had a few successful fade-to-blacks in my games with players who are up for it, but other players have their characters consistently and unrealistically abstain.
True, but there's nothing in the rules to help you facilitate it, either. As I said upthread, if Traveller had Charisma or Willpower characteristics, the GM's job would be easier. A few seconds of roll-play would create an agreed outcome that could set the scene for many hours of role-play.
However, without those rolls, if you have nervous players who see every female NPC as a potential femme fatale it's near impossible to get them to interact with those NPCs at anything beyond a superficial level. The GM can have the girl offer it on a plate, but if the players don't bite, nothing happens.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong - any GMing advice gratefully received.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong - any GMing advice gratefully received.
Adding Charisma is easy. Add it to the Mental and Interpersonal cascades if using MegaTraveller or T4.
It's already present in TNE and T20; it's pseudo-present in GT, and it's split into Presence and Comliness in Hero.
Allow subbing it for Edu or Soc in CT or MGT.
No problem.
IOW, it happens, just as much to the player characters as it does to everybody else.
It just doesn't happen to be the focus of the adventures they have.
I could live with that. I mean, it'd be okay to have a hotshot PC pilot chasing all the women in the Starport - I never heard of a pilot who didn't chase after somebody - just that the adventure doesn't have to be about his chasing women.
Still, it'd be good to have the occasional end of scene interlude where the hotshot PC pilot finds himself in a casual situation where it's just him, that exotic female Zhodani agent and the hotel room. He's just booted the villain's henchman out the window, and there's little else to do for the next six hours.
Draw the curtains, fade to black, shuffle the papers and call for a half hour pizza break before winding the clock forwards nine hours and everyone's standing in the Patron's office for a sitrep of the adventure.
Icosahedron,
I think the problem might be you are trying too hard. I can certainly see how around a gaming table a GM who tries to push sexual content, and laments the fact the game lacks character stats that could be rolled force PCs to undertake social actions; can come as a bit...creepy.
I have been in games where the rules were used to force my character into sexual situations....I was not entertained.
You should not forget most of us are in Traveller for the things we can't get in real life; women, ⌧ and families are abundant...fusion power, jump drives and interplanetary adventure ain't. Personally I want more of the latter an less of the former
As for the fear of "femme fatales" and dependent families, these have been so overused in gaming, movies and books that player's not touching them with a 10' pole is a very sensible outcome. It's a sign they are wise and have indeed learned. We learn not to play with fire by getting burned.
I think the problem might be you are trying too hard. I can certainly see how around a gaming table a GM who tries to push sexual content, and laments the fact the game lacks character stats that could be rolled force PCs to undertake social actions; can come as a bit...creepy.
I have been in games where the rules were used to force my character into sexual situations....I was not entertained.
You should not forget most of us are in Traveller for the things we can't get in real life; women, ⌧ and families are abundant...fusion power, jump drives and interplanetary adventure ain't. Personally I want more of the latter an less of the former
As for the fear of "femme fatales" and dependent families, these have been so overused in gaming, movies and books that player's not touching them with a 10' pole is a very sensible outcome. It's a sign they are wise and have indeed learned. We learn not to play with fire by getting burned.
beowulf2044
SOC-12
Speaking of overused tropes, try introducing an Innoncent Princess in Trouble to a group, and watch the paranoia explode.
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
One can't do wrong by showing a sexy babe in a tight/short/no outfit. Nicely fills any plotholes as seen in Species, Ghost of Mars, Baywatch,...
The only problem in roleplaying is matching the mental picture of Natasha Henstridge in tight leather and a halter top with the real picture of a bearded, smelly 200+kg guy in dungarees and Birkenstocks playing the character.
That's normally the point where "Suspension of Disbelieve" follows "Sanity" and runs away
Fiat Knox,
Exactly.
And just where that balance lies will vary from group to group and adventure to adventure.
That's why Traveller's neutrality is so wise a design choice.
Want it? Then add it.
Don't want it? Then there's nothing you need to remove.
Regards,
Bill
Wil,
That's because Mr. Miller knows he needs to publish "tofu" or "cafeteria food" in order to appeal to the widest possible audience. Humor to you is scandal to to others , my boring is shocking to others, and published Traveller materials need to be malleable to all.
Mr. Miller and Traveller never expect us to eat that plate of tofu without condiments, but just how it should be seasoned and spiced is entirely our concern. What's more, Traveller materials are replete with suggestions that we should season them to our own specific tastes.
Regards,
Bill
One of my friends ran a rescue the princess from a "fate worse than death". She had been abducted and placed in a brothel. We infiltrated the place and him being the GM, well, he had his character "dally with her", so to speak as we set up the big distraction to make good the breakout and subsequent escape.
Now, is that shocking or boring? Well, I and the other guys found the adventure premise to be interesting, but once the adventure actually played out as I just conveyed it, the whole thing stopped being fun and became a wargame exercise to end what we felt to be a poor choice of actions on the part of the GM and one other player. In fact my other friend who was sitting next to me said "This place is evil! Come on, Ghost! Let's take 'em out!" Or words to that effect.
To me sexual content in sci-fi is attraction between the male-female couple in question. It doesn't have to be some girl in a bikini, nor a "Barbarella" escapade, and certainly not something more explicit.
Sexual tension, to me, resides in the realm of flirtatious potential, but it is not the key to the story, unlike so much female marketed dreck (regardless of how well the prose and story are put together).
Sexual tension in science-fiction, to me, is the handsome university research scientist/doctor bringing his lovely co-ed assistant to ... oh ... say ... some "dinosaur island" on an expedition. The other members of the team think she's a hottie, but acknowledge his implicit "possession" of her. She is his. That's level-1 sexual tension. Level-2 comes when they find a village with a single native hottie who fancies said researcher or one of the other team members, and the co-ed assistant becomes possesive and jealous.
Now, if your mind skews to ratings beyond G, PG, PG-13, then you got yourself another genre with sci-fi trappings. In which case why are you playing an RPG at all?
Just my writer's mind at work here.
As a sidebar I've tried to include female characters in previous adventures to provide some romantic tension, but more often than not they wind up being "one of the guys".
Now, is that shocking or boring? Well, I and the other guys found the adventure premise to be interesting, but once the adventure actually played out as I just conveyed it, the whole thing stopped being fun and became a wargame exercise to end what we felt to be a poor choice of actions on the part of the GM and one other player. In fact my other friend who was sitting next to me said "This place is evil! Come on, Ghost! Let's take 'em out!" Or words to that effect.
To me sexual content in sci-fi is attraction between the male-female couple in question. It doesn't have to be some girl in a bikini, nor a "Barbarella" escapade, and certainly not something more explicit.
Sexual tension, to me, resides in the realm of flirtatious potential, but it is not the key to the story, unlike so much female marketed dreck (regardless of how well the prose and story are put together).
Sexual tension in science-fiction, to me, is the handsome university research scientist/doctor bringing his lovely co-ed assistant to ... oh ... say ... some "dinosaur island" on an expedition. The other members of the team think she's a hottie, but acknowledge his implicit "possession" of her. She is his. That's level-1 sexual tension. Level-2 comes when they find a village with a single native hottie who fancies said researcher or one of the other team members, and the co-ed assistant becomes possesive and jealous.
Now, if your mind skews to ratings beyond G, PG, PG-13, then you got yourself another genre with sci-fi trappings. In which case why are you playing an RPG at all?
Just my writer's mind at work here.
As a sidebar I've tried to include female characters in previous adventures to provide some romantic tension, but more often than not they wind up being "one of the guys".
ShapeShifter
SOC-13
A smart move.
Now we can call Traveller the Switzerland of RPG's.
:rofl:
Judging by certain historical Princesses, the "fate worse than death" is actually being a Princess.
Once they get to be Queens, that's fantastic - Princesses can do whatever the Hell they like with a crown on their heads. But to be a Princess forever, only kept on in case the Heir Apparent should stumble over his own shoelaces and somehow impale himself on his own fingers, unable to marry the man she wants, only the one protocol dictates she should marry for the good of the State ...
As a player, I wouldn't be surprised at all to have my PCs have to rescue the Princess from a brothel, or stumble upon her gyrating about a pole in a strip club. The only problem for the players in extricating her from the club would not be from the bouncers trying to stop them, but from the Princess trying to stop them ...
You can tell I'm a Brit, can't you?
Once they get to be Queens, that's fantastic - Princesses can do whatever the Hell they like with a crown on their heads. But to be a Princess forever, only kept on in case the Heir Apparent should stumble over his own shoelaces and somehow impale himself on his own fingers, unable to marry the man she wants, only the one protocol dictates she should marry for the good of the State ...
As a player, I wouldn't be surprised at all to have my PCs have to rescue the Princess from a brothel, or stumble upon her gyrating about a pole in a strip club. The only problem for the players in extricating her from the club would not be from the bouncers trying to stop them, but from the Princess trying to stop them ...
You can tell I'm a Brit, can't you?
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
LOL. In my defence, I don't think I push sexual content, I just lament the fact that so many players actively and unrealistically avoid it.
Now this is what I'm talking about. This is what would happen IRL.
But...
Too often, what would happen in gaming the above is that, even if the co-ed assistant wasn't someone's 'possession', still none of the other members of the team would make a move on her - that's not realistic.
Also, everyone treats the native hottie exactly the same as they treat her 90 year old grandmother - that's not realistic, either. In my experience, the situation descibed above would often end up with the GM playing with himself - if you'll excuse the phrase.
All that carefully planned social (as opposed to sexual) tension, leading to a jealousy-motivated denouement that's potentially critical to the plot, goes out the window because none of the players bite. All the PCs act like eunuchs.
Well, I'm not sure of the American ratings, but I go with the British 15 rating. Serenity the movie is 15, and its final scene is as far as I'd want to go. IMO any more is a bit... creepy.
Bill wrote:
Ok, I get the substance of what you are saying and I fully agree it is the individual Traveller referees to spice their tofu accordingly.
But, what stops me in my tracks, is why this does not apply to D&D or Call of Cthulhu or Champions or the old skool games. Each of those have gone to spice things up. Even if I can appreciate the humour of a piece of Otus artwork, it would not constitute what I think as Fantasy anymore Elmore changed all that.
Similarly, SF used have terrible covers (by Marc's standard) but we are still at the level of something earlier. My point in starting this whole thread is that SF has evolved and Traveller seems to stuck. Much like how we complain the technology is stuck in the 1970s. Relationships, motivations, themes and moods are stuck in a mindset that newer games have better captured. It need not be salacious content but it needs to keep up with the times.
Ok, I get the substance of what you are saying and I fully agree it is the individual Traveller referees to spice their tofu accordingly.
But, what stops me in my tracks, is why this does not apply to D&D or Call of Cthulhu or Champions or the old skool games. Each of those have gone to spice things up. Even if I can appreciate the humour of a piece of Otus artwork, it would not constitute what I think as Fantasy anymore Elmore changed all that.
Similarly, SF used have terrible covers (by Marc's standard) but we are still at the level of something earlier. My point in starting this whole thread is that SF has evolved and Traveller seems to stuck. Much like how we complain the technology is stuck in the 1970s. Relationships, motivations, themes and moods are stuck in a mindset that newer games have better captured. It need not be salacious content but it needs to keep up with the times.
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