RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Except that all the Imperial Megacorporations are headed by high-ranking nobles. The highest ranking nobles not actually heading up Imperial Government Districts. Or at least, that's the impression I always got.
Traveller: REVOLUTION!
- Thread starter The Hinterworlds Rambler
- Start date
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Would a religious uprising be too slow in formation to be effective? I do not know statistics on conversion, but it could be time consuming...
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Religion got the short end of the stick in Traveller. There are plenty of Religious Dictatorships, but little to no discussion of religion itself (just some smatterings here and there).
It's hard to envision the OTU having a religious mass-movement of any kind.
However, as a postulate, a VTU with stronger religious presence to begin with might well have room for mass religious fervor spanning beyond a single world, and various factors might induce crusade/jihad, etc.
A big church with widespread donations would have its own base of wealth and in-place communications. If the priesthood aligned against the IG, then it would prove an ideal bed from which rebellion might be successfully cradled.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Are there any?
</font>[/QUOTE]Not as far as I know.
As long as they're reasonably quite about it, and file all the appropriate suppressive paperwork, provide media misdirection, pay for lots of local political junkets, and cooperate with the 3I's nobility on interstellar issues when required, etc., ad infinitum.
Arbellatra saw exactly the same thing, and so she and her heirs saw to it that the Archdukes and the Domain level of the IG were "removed" from the processes of the IG itself. This left the sectors as the big "duchies", and the subsectors as the "counties" within the "duchies".
Then Strephon comes along, and he saw what he believed to be an irreversible stagnation setting in, and he proceeded to "reempower" the archdukes as a way of invigorating the Imperium.
And that, they say, is all she wrote.
Hey, we should come up with a name for that version of Traveller. Ok. No. Don't help me. <cogitation, cogitation /> Ok! MegaTraveller it is!
What do think of that title? Isn't it great?!
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
But first we must determine which religion is so wide-spread that it may form the backbone of such an action. For I sincerely doubt the ability of many strong religions (ones strong enough to launch and/or support crusades) to cooperate with each other.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I'd have to go with the "internal"-Noble-born rebellion idea.
As a variant to what has been done, I was just thinking (oh no, direct a firehose on that man!) that it would be over a grand political issue, maybe even the same thing that started the real Rebellion, only done differently.
Say that Strephon decided to handle his reforms differently. (Going along with the MT viewpoint that the nobility have failed in their roles as protectors of the Imperium and its people in favor of enriching themselves at the expense of all else.) Strephon tries to fix the problem by "fixing" the nobility via alterations in the Noblesse Oblige. He tries to strengthen the explicit requirements and duties of all nobles so that they will get off their lazy keisters and get moving in support of the Imperium.
This would be seen by the majority of the nobility as a direct threat to their long-standing traditions and ways of life. Strephon's initial moves would give way to major changes, including things like, eeeeek!, "accountability" for success, etc. It might even include things like "compentency trials" for eligibility to achieve major Ministry posts and perhaps even mandatory mental and skills compentency trials for subsector, sector, and even Imperial noble titles. The list of offenses could go on and on.
The resistence to these changes would stiffen from mere steel to bonded superdense as ongoing changes illustrated the intent of the Emperor. With the leadership of the Imperium itself standing against the Emperor in widespread solidarity (with maybe a few exceptions), a rebellion against the Emperor would start to look quite plausible.
The process could span several years, if played successfully, and maybe even a decade or two, gradually building steam, until the pressure cooker exploded in all directions.
The intrigue and political machinations resulting from this prelude would produce fascinating adventure opportunities. Can the PCs figure out what's going on? Do they see the Imperium about to go after its own throat? Are they part of the thrusts and parries? Can they stop the pressure cooker (or even just let off a little steam)?
As a variant to what has been done, I was just thinking (oh no, direct a firehose on that man!) that it would be over a grand political issue, maybe even the same thing that started the real Rebellion, only done differently.
Say that Strephon decided to handle his reforms differently. (Going along with the MT viewpoint that the nobility have failed in their roles as protectors of the Imperium and its people in favor of enriching themselves at the expense of all else.) Strephon tries to fix the problem by "fixing" the nobility via alterations in the Noblesse Oblige. He tries to strengthen the explicit requirements and duties of all nobles so that they will get off their lazy keisters and get moving in support of the Imperium.
This would be seen by the majority of the nobility as a direct threat to their long-standing traditions and ways of life. Strephon's initial moves would give way to major changes, including things like, eeeeek!, "accountability" for success, etc. It might even include things like "compentency trials" for eligibility to achieve major Ministry posts and perhaps even mandatory mental and skills compentency trials for subsector, sector, and even Imperial noble titles. The list of offenses could go on and on.
The resistence to these changes would stiffen from mere steel to bonded superdense as ongoing changes illustrated the intent of the Emperor. With the leadership of the Imperium itself standing against the Emperor in widespread solidarity (with maybe a few exceptions), a rebellion against the Emperor would start to look quite plausible.
The process could span several years, if played successfully, and maybe even a decade or two, gradually building steam, until the pressure cooker exploded in all directions.
The intrigue and political machinations resulting from this prelude would produce fascinating adventure opportunities. Can the PCs figure out what's going on? Do they see the Imperium about to go after its own throat? Are they part of the thrusts and parries? Can they stop the pressure cooker (or even just let off a little steam)?
I admit I cannot envision that any single entity, political, religious or otherwise, could appeal to a sufficiently large portion of the Imperium's population to make a single mass-revolt possible. There are thousands of cultures within the Imperium, though perhaps only a thousand or so cultures with enough population mass to make this possible. It's simply inconceivable to me that any one philosophy, faith or dogma could sway enough sophonts from such diverse backgrounds.
And don't forget the non-humans! You might find economic or political motives to sway them, but IMHO religion won't work.
The Imperium is simply too fracking big and diverse.
The sole entity with the power to pull this off is the Imperial Navy, and it seems inconceivable that it could be sufficently suborned.
-John
And don't forget the non-humans! You might find economic or political motives to sway them, but IMHO religion won't work.
The Imperium is simply too fracking big and diverse.
The sole entity with the power to pull this off is the Imperial Navy, and it seems inconceivable that it could be sufficently suborned.
-John
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Which, of course, also makes the 3I very unlikely. The same things that make a rebellion nigh to impossible to most people here would also (eventually) break apart the Imperium. This is one of those difficulties to which I apply the material handwavium, and leave it at that.
Not an appropriate topic for discussion. I should not have included it. Save to say they had funding sources across the iron curtain as well and this is a documented fact, though not necessarily well known. I had arguments with a fellow student who was working on a PhD in strategic studies and he had well supported arguments to this effect (this was back in the late eighties, before the fall of the Wall). Still, I agree that a fair amount of funding has come from expats in the US and other G20 nations.
If you want a Rebellion, several options present themselves plausibly (ish):
1) Noble led. More of a factional dispute gone large.
2) Intelligentsia led. Maybe the Empire finally woke up and the masses realized they always wanted a Repbulic and the Divine Right of Nobles is a silly idea. American revolution writ large, perhaps?
3) Religious revolution. Some sort of pan-sophont movement with a conviction against nobles, the emperor, and those who would presume the mantle of authority. I've heard people wonder if this is feasible, but I'll bet most of the wonder-ers are not devoutly religious themselves. (Nor am I). I find it hard to conceive of the degree of religious harmony that has allowed the Catholic Church to be what it is, that has allowed certain Muslim movements to be what they are, etc. But it happens. A pan-sophontist church with encompassing beliefs, perhaps one with (gasp) psionic powers that allow 'miracles' to occur or the like, could well drag in a lot of followers. Having said that, they may well share only one commonality, the belief that God ordains man to control his own destiny and not to subborn himself to other men.
4) Regional breakdown based on some bad decisions in the administration.
I'm sure some never thought Rome would fall. I'm sure some never understood how Rome could stand or exist. The truth is, all Empires eventually grow stale and stagnant and get the unlucky hegemony of a bad leader, bad advisors, ambitious subordinates, and incompetent administrators. usually they come individually, so you can handle them one at a time. But if the stars are in alignment and all get into place at the same time, you've got a breakdown like the Rebellion, that could have been halted at any of 1000 places, but whose scope ended up being vast and a spiral of decay, once well begun, that was impossible to stop. Once the avalanche has begun, it is a bit late for the pebbles to vote.
Maybe an Emperor wishes to make the Empire into a Republic and has a fight on his hands with the Nobility. This kind of conflict has traditionally dogged Empires (Nobles vs. the Leader) and Kingdoms. Nobles were for long and weary the biggest threat to the English Crown (not too the institution of Monarchy and Nobility, but to particular Kingss and their particular powers). I'm sure the same is true in other places.
Lots of options exist. If you can buy into the 3I as a homogenous entity enough to form a polity, you should be able to buy into it enough to imagine it falling apart...
An interesting TU would be one where there is no big multi-sector empires.... just lots and lots and lots of small few-system to subsector sized polities.
1) Noble led. More of a factional dispute gone large.
2) Intelligentsia led. Maybe the Empire finally woke up and the masses realized they always wanted a Repbulic and the Divine Right of Nobles is a silly idea. American revolution writ large, perhaps?
3) Religious revolution. Some sort of pan-sophont movement with a conviction against nobles, the emperor, and those who would presume the mantle of authority. I've heard people wonder if this is feasible, but I'll bet most of the wonder-ers are not devoutly religious themselves. (Nor am I). I find it hard to conceive of the degree of religious harmony that has allowed the Catholic Church to be what it is, that has allowed certain Muslim movements to be what they are, etc. But it happens. A pan-sophontist church with encompassing beliefs, perhaps one with (gasp) psionic powers that allow 'miracles' to occur or the like, could well drag in a lot of followers. Having said that, they may well share only one commonality, the belief that God ordains man to control his own destiny and not to subborn himself to other men.
4) Regional breakdown based on some bad decisions in the administration.
I'm sure some never thought Rome would fall. I'm sure some never understood how Rome could stand or exist. The truth is, all Empires eventually grow stale and stagnant and get the unlucky hegemony of a bad leader, bad advisors, ambitious subordinates, and incompetent administrators. usually they come individually, so you can handle them one at a time. But if the stars are in alignment and all get into place at the same time, you've got a breakdown like the Rebellion, that could have been halted at any of 1000 places, but whose scope ended up being vast and a spiral of decay, once well begun, that was impossible to stop. Once the avalanche has begun, it is a bit late for the pebbles to vote.
Maybe an Emperor wishes to make the Empire into a Republic and has a fight on his hands with the Nobility. This kind of conflict has traditionally dogged Empires (Nobles vs. the Leader) and Kingdoms. Nobles were for long and weary the biggest threat to the English Crown (not too the institution of Monarchy and Nobility, but to particular Kingss and their particular powers). I'm sure the same is true in other places.
Lots of options exist. If you can buy into the 3I as a homogenous entity enough to form a polity, you should be able to buy into it enough to imagine it falling apart...
An interesting TU would be one where there is no big multi-sector empires.... just lots and lots and lots of small few-system to subsector sized polities.
No it's not really appropriate. Yes, they accepted funding from anywhere. No, there was nothing wrong with this, IMHO.
The main point is that you essentially implied that they were Soviet puppets, which is obviously not the case.
Likewise, I don't think that most of the Ine Givar would be puppets of the Zhodani, Sword Worlds, Vargr, Arden, or any of the other external forces that would support them at one point or another. They would, of course, accept various forms of support. The main factor modifying this would be the degree to which that support came with strings attached. Too many strings, and it's "no thanks". But we can safely assume that the external "allies" would maneuver to put their own favourite leaders in place within the IG, doubtless giving rise to some nasty conflicts within it.
Incidentally, the IG undoubtedly has associated legal organisations. The main one in MTU is an organisation called Solidariti, which defends sophont rights, particularly of nonhumans like the Vargr and the Dandies of Junidy. Some of its planetary branches operate as a political party where that is possible, while other branches are just as underground/illegal as the IG itself, although they don't engage in armed struggle.
Solidariti, however, is associated with only one IG faction. Certain other factions have been known to attempt to kill them, as the Solidariti faction seldom actually makes use of its armed wing.
I've written more about this on the Traveller Mailing List.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
The term you are looking for is "Right of Assassination".
Alternatively, a Styryx style forced abdication might occur.
The Imperium has lots of experience with palace coups, even if it isn't recent. </font>[/QUOTE]You are absolutely correct.
However, I was vaguely assuming that Strephon, expecting problems, and cognizant of the past, was going to be guarding against such an eventuality, making it far more difficult to pull off than in the past.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Handwavium? That'll be Cr50,000 per ounce, please. Payable in crisp new Cr10,000 notes.
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