Traveller--->Stargrunt II

[SgtHulka]

After seeing the reaction fire/overwatch optional rules for Stargrunt II floating around on the net, and trying the game with 15mm figures instead of 25mm ones, my interest in using SGII for Traveller has re-ignited. For that purpose I've tried converting the Traveller weapons to Stargrunt II, and I'd like to here what you experts think.

If you're not familiar with Stargrunt, basically everything's done with opposed dice. To hit you roll your firepower die (which is the number of people in your squad equipped with a particular weapon x the firepower of that weapon, choose the closest die) and your squad quality die (based on green, veteran, elite, regular) which is opposed by your opponent rolling a range die.

Once you hit and cause damage, you roll a penetration die versus the target's armor die to see if you score a wound or a kill.

You always have to roll over your opponent's die, so 1d6 vs. 1d6 gives a somewhat lower than 50% chance of success.

Keeping that in mind, what do you think of the following approximation of the Snapshot tables? (focusing mostly on the Medium/Long range bands):

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
ARMOR TL MOBILITY DEFENSE
Mesh 4 d8 d4
Cloth 7 d6 d6
Combat Environment Suit 10 d6 d8
Reflec 10 d6 d12*
Combat Armor 12 d6 d10
Battle dress 13 d6 d12
Battle dress 14 d12 d12

*vs. Lasers Only, may be worn under other types of armor.

WEAPON TL FIREPOWER PENETRATION
Semi-Auto Rifle 6 1 d6
Assault Rifle 7 2 d8
Snub Pistol CLOSE ONLY 8
--High Explosive 1 d6
--HEAP 0.5 d8
4 cm RAM Grenade* 8
--HE +1 nil
--Flechette +2 -shift
--HEAP nil +shift
Accelerator Rifle 9 1 d10
Laser Carbine 9 1 d8
Laser Rifle 9 1 d12
AdvancedCombatRifle(ACR) 10
--Discarding Sabot 2 d10
--High Explosive 3 d6
Gauss Rifle 12 2 d12
*Maybe be affixed in over-under configuration to any Rifle

SUPPORT WEAPON
Auto Rifle 6 d8 d8
LMG 6 d8 d10
Light Assault Gun 8
--Discarding Sabot d6 d12
--High Explosive d8 d8
--Flechette d10 d6
PGMP-12 12 d6 d12*
PGMP-13** 13 d8 d12*
PGMP-14 14 d8 d12*
FGMP-14** 14 d10 d12*
FGMP-15 15 d10 d12*
*Double Penetration for Major Hit
**High Recoil Weapon; Battledress Only

HEAVY WEAPON
Auto-Cannon
--Discarding Sabot Fire Control d12*
--High Explosive +shift Fire Control d12
VRF Gauss Gun Fire Control d12x2*
</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[SgtHulka]

I just downloaded MegaTraveller, and by way of comparison, here's the same chart using the MegaTraveller weapon and armor stats instead of the Snapshot ones:
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
MEGATRAVELLER

ARMOR TL MOBILITY DEFENSE
Mesh 4 d8 d2
Flak Jacket d6 d4
Cloth 7 d6 d6
Vacc Suit d4 d6
Combat Environment Suit 10 d6 d6
Reflec 10 d6 d10*
Combat Armor 11 d6 d8
Combat Armor 12 d6 d10
Battle dress 13 d6 d10
Battle dress 14 d12 d20

*vs. Lasers Only, may be worn under other types of armor.

WEAPON TL FIREPOWER PENETRATION
Semi-Auto Rifle 6 1 d4
Assault Rifle 7 2 d4
Snub Pistol CLOSE ONLY 8
--High Explosive 1 d2
--HEAP 0.5 d6
4 cm RAM Grenade* 8
--HE +1 nil
--Flechette +2 -shift
--HEAP nil +shift
Accelerator Rifle 9 2 d4
Laser Carbine 9 1 d8
Laser Rifle 9 1 d10
AdvancedCombatRifle(ACR) 10
--Discarding Sabot 2 d6
--High Explosive 3 d4
Gauss Rifle 12 3 d8
*Maybe be affixed in over-under configuration to Rifle, Assault Rifle,
Advanced Combat Rifle, Auto-Rifle, or Gauss Rifle

SUPPORT WEAPON
Auto Rifle 6 d6 d4
LMG 6 d8 d4
Light Assault Gun 8
--Discarding Sabot d4 d8
--High Explosive d6 d4
--Flechette d8 d2
PGMP-12 12 d6 d12
PGMP-13** 13 d6 d12*
PGMP-14 14 d6 d12*
FGMP-14** 14 d6 d20*
FGMP-15 15 d6 d20*
*Double Penetration for Major Hit
**High Recoil Weapon; Battledress Only

HEAVY WEAPON
Auto-Cannon
--Discarding Sabot Fire Control d12*
--High Explosive +shift Fire Control d12
VRF Gauss Gun Fire Control d12x2*
</pre>[/QUOTE]So which of these tables (Snapshot vs. MegaTraveller) seem less wonky to you?

 

[Takei]

Oddly enough, I was recently looking at porting the SGII combat system into Traveller. I was keeping it fairly general and looking at converting SGII weapons and armour into their Trav equivalent. The SGII vehicle design and combat rules are also very simple for use in a Trav game. Just treat spaces as dt and you have a reasonable size for when they get put into starship holds.

As far as your charts go I'll have to have another browse through SGII before I comment. My initial impression is that the MT chart looks less wonky.

 

[aramis]

SG II also uses the DS II vehicle design sequences...

so vehicles conversions rapidly make easy work of it.

 

[Captain Bob of the LEXX]

Here is a link for your consideration:

Hyberbear

I have thought about this crossover from time-to-time. I was thinking of converting weapons/armor to SGII stats at each tech level, and then die type increases for the more advanced equipment. I just haven't set down and put it to paper yet.
________
Washington Medical Marijuana Dispensary

 

[SgtHulka]

Yes, that's a great site. I think that's where I found the reaction fire/overwatch rules for SGII.

The problem with those Traveller to SGII conversions, however, is that they fit Traveller weapons into the SGII universe. I'm trying to fit SGII rules into the Traveller universe.

In StarGrunt II Assault Rifles have a higher penetration value than Partial Light Armor (SGII's version of "cloth") has defensive value. As a result, an Assault Rifle hit will have a pretty good chance of scoring a wound, at least, against cloth-armored opponents.

In Traveller, that's not the case. The Assault Rifle has a poor chance of penetrating cloth*. The systems are even more different when it comes to powered armor. Powered Armor in Stargrunt really doesn't protect *that* much. So long as you've got Hi-Tech Assault Rifles you still have a decent chance of scoring some wounds and/or kills. In Traveller, high-tech Battledress really rules the battlefield -- it's well-nigh invulnerable to all but extremely high-tech weaponry. My purpose is to create Traveller tables, instead of Stargrunt ones, so that I can use Stargrunt to resolve Traveller adventures. I've been looking at a Mercenary Ticket in an old JTAS, for example, where the players have to train and equip a cadre of counter-insurgents. I'd like to use Traveller equipment costs and Traveller tech levels to restrict equipment availability, and then use Traveller skills to determine the Quality, Leadership and Motivation of the troops they've trained. Then I'd like them to lead these troops on an actual counter-insurgency operation. The first parts of this Ticket (purchasing weapons) will turn out *very* differently if I use Stargrunt stats or if I use Traveller stats -- essentially it would be more efficient for the characters to *not* purchase armor if using Stargrunt.

Of course, an entirely seperate and potentially equally interesting discussion would be to use Classic or MegaTraveller to create a Role-Playing Game for the Tuffleyverse, i.e. the Stargrunt II universe. I've heard that it's quite similar to 2300 AD actually.

*The problem I've run into, as you can see from the tables, is that MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller are actually quite different. MegaTraveller's weapons have much worse penetration against armor than Classic Traveller's weapons do; Classic Traveller is a bit closer to the Stargrunt II weapon stats.

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Aramis:
SG II also uses the DS II vehicle design sequences...

so vehicles conversions rapidly make easy work of it.

The DSII design chart is another good example of how you can get a very flexible design system on two side of A4! Even the explanatory notes only add another few pages.
I'd been looking at how to use the DSII rules in a CT game for ages, and then I came across SGII. Fairly simple but definately usable.