UGM vs. CTI vs. MT/DGP

[Supplement Four]

(Comparision of UGM to CTI and MT.)


I was curious at how the three systems would shake down, so I thought I'd do some comparision shopping.

I'll compare UGM to the DGP/MT task system and my own CTI task system.

On the charts...

ESY = EASY task difficulty
ROU = ROUTINE task difficulty
STD = STANDARD task difficulty
DIF = DIFFICULT task difficulty
CHA = CHALLENGING task difficulty
FOR = FORMIDABLE task difficulty
STG/INS = STAGGERING task difficulty (INSANE task difficulty under UGM)
IMP = IMPOSSIBLE task difficulty

I won't use the UGM Natural Ability modifier in these examples.


Let's start with an average Joe.


Stat-7 Skill-2

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 95%
ROU 92% 92% 82%
STD 72%
DIF 42% 42% 54%
CHA 17% 26%
FOR 3% 3% 7%
STG/INS 0% 4%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

(Comparision of UGM to CTI and MT.)


I was curious at how the three systems would shake down, so I thought I'd do some comparision shopping.

I'll compare UGM to the DGP/MT task system and my own CTI task system.

On the charts...

ESY = EASY task difficulty
ROU = ROUTINE task difficulty
STD = STANDARD task difficulty
DIF = DIFFICULT task difficulty
CHA = CHALLENGING task difficulty
FOR = FORMIDABLE task difficulty
STG/INS = STAGGERING task difficulty (INSANE task difficulty under UGM)
IMP = IMPOSSIBLE task difficulty

I won't use the UGM Natural Ability modifier in these examples.


Let's start with an average Joe.


Stat-7 Skill-2

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 95%
ROU 92% 92% 82%
STD 72%
DIF 42% 42% 54%
CHA 17% 26%
FOR 3% 3% 7%
STG/INS 0% 4%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a little higher stat and a professional level skill.


Stat-9 Skill-3

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 97%
ROU 97% 97% 86%
STD 83%
DIF 58% 58% 67%
CHA 28% 41%
FOR 8% 8% 16%
STG/INS 0% 6%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a little higher stat and a professional level skill.


Stat-9 Skill-3

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 97%
ROU 97% 97% 86%
STD 83%
DIF 58% 58% 67%
CHA 28% 41%
FOR 8% 8% 16%
STG/INS 0% 6%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a gifted character.

I'll use the +1DM on the UGM column because the Natural Ability modifer will occur 100% of the time.

Stat-13 Skill-5

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 100%
ROU 100% 100% 95%
STD 100%
DIF 92% 92% 84%
CHA 72% 64%
FOR 42% 42% 41%
STG/INS 17% 21%
IMP 3% 3% 8%</pre>[/QUOTE]I like the smoother drop off you see in CTI over standard/official MT. Even the extra difficulty category helps UGM in this aspect eventhough it's probability are identical to MT.


You'll also notice the effect skill has with CTI. Skills are well weighted again stats with that system, and when you have a high degree of skill, you're going to see bigger numbers--but they won't blow the category away. There's still room for failure.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's look at a gifted character.

I'll use the +1DM on the UGM column because the Natural Ability modifer will occur 100% of the time.

Stat-13 Skill-5

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 100%
ROU 100% 100% 95%
STD 100%
DIF 92% 92% 84%
CHA 72% 64%
FOR 42% 42% 41%
STG/INS 17% 21%
IMP 3% 3% 8%</pre>[/QUOTE]I like the smoother drop off you see in CTI over standard/official MT. Even the extra difficulty category helps UGM in this aspect eventhough it's probability are identical to MT.


You'll also notice the effect skill has with CTI. Skills are well weighted again stats with that system, and when you have a high degree of skill, you're going to see bigger numbers--but they won't blow the category away. There's still room for failure.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's try one of the most powerful characters you are likely to see in a CT game.

I'll use the +1DM for Natural Ability on this one since it is 100% likely it will occur.

Stat-15 Skill-6

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 100%
ROU 100% 100% 95%
STD 100%
DIF 100% 97% 84%
CHA 83% 64%
FOR 72% 58% 41%
STG/INS 28% 23%
IMP 17% 8% 12%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

Let's try one of the most powerful characters you are likely to see in a CT game.

I'll use the +1DM for Natural Ability on this one since it is 100% likely it will occur.

Stat-15 Skill-6

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 100% 100% 100%
ROU 100% 100% 95%
STD 100%
DIF 100% 97% 84%
CHA 83% 64%
FOR 72% 58% 41%
STG/INS 28% 23%
IMP 17% 8% 12%</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[Supplement Four]

OK, let's look at a poor somebitch of a charcter--one that's SOL when it comes to making task rolls.

I definitely won't use the Natural Ability bonus on this one for UGM.

Stat-4 Skill-0

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 97% 92% 93%
ROU 58% 72% 51%
STD 42%
DIF 8% 17% 32%
CHA 3% 15%
FOR 0% 0% 5%
STG/INS 0% 4%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]Again, something I like about CTI. This example proves it. No matter how low a character you are, you can get lucky and roll some 6's (in CTI, you always re-roll 6's on the Task Die).

When using MT or UGM, you'll never make an Impossible roll if you are Stat-4 and Skill-0.

In CTI, it is very, very unlikely you'll make an Impossible roll...but you could get lucky. You've got a shot.

That's just another aspect of CTI that I think works very well.

 

[Supplement Four]

OK, let's look at a poor somebitch of a charcter--one that's SOL when it comes to making task rolls.

I definitely won't use the Natural Ability bonus on this one for UGM.

Stat-4 Skill-0

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> MT UGM CTI
ESY 97% 92% 93%
ROU 58% 72% 51%
STD 42%
DIF 8% 17% 32%
CHA 3% 15%
FOR 0% 0% 5%
STG/INS 0% 4%
IMP 0% 0% 3%</pre>[/QUOTE]Again, something I like about CTI. This example proves it. No matter how low a character you are, you can get lucky and roll some 6's (in CTI, you always re-roll 6's on the Task Die).

When using MT or UGM, you'll never make an Impossible roll if you are Stat-4 and Skill-0.

In CTI, it is very, very unlikely you'll make an Impossible roll...but you could get lucky. You've got a shot.

That's just another aspect of CTI that I think works very well.

 

[Supplement Four]

WHY USE UGM INSTEAD OF MT?


Why use UGM instead of official DGP/MT? It provides just about the same probability, right?

Here's why.

Under DGP/MT, your natural ability is "lumped" together into four "groups".

Group #1 is Stats 1-4. These provide no DM to the task throw.

Group #2 is Stats 5-9. These provide a +1DM to the task throw.

Group #3 is Stats 10-14. These provide a +2DM to the task throw.

Group #4 is Stat 15. This provides a +3DM to the task throw.


So, your EDU-9 Medical-2 guy will make the same exact roll as your EDU-5 Medical-2 guy. BUT, your EDU-10 guy will get a better benefit than your EDU-9 guy.

EDU-10 is better than EDU-9, but EDU-9 isn't better than EDU-8, EDU-7, EDU-6, or EDU-5?

Does that make sense?
Should it be that way?


Under UGM, the guy with the EDU-9 will more than likely get a +1DM on the throw (it's a 83% probability).

But, it's a lot more shaky for your EDU-5 guy (he's only got a 28% chance of getting the +1DM).

And...

Even if BOTH UGM characters GET their Natural Ability bonus, it's going to help the EDU-9 character a lot more.

Why?

Because the EDU-5 guy has to roll a lot lower than the EDU-9 guy in order to get his ability bonus, so when the EDU-9 guy gets it, that bonus is going to be much more helpful at higher difficulty categories.

See, the EDU-5 guy's natural roll results will be: 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

While the EDU-9 guy's natural roll results will be one of these: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 11, 12

So, the EDU-5 guy's bonus is only really going to help him at the ROUTINE task level. If he rolls the max he can roll and still get his bonus (a roll of 5), he'll get a +1DM for his natural ability, then +2 for his skill, giving him a total of 8.

The EDU-9 guy, on the other hand, when getting his bonus on the max roll (a roll of 9), there will be a +1DM for the Natural Ability and a +2DM for skill, giving the EDU-9 guy a total of 12.

So...

Not only will the EDU-9 guy get his bonus more often than the EDU-5 guy (83% chance vs. the 28% chance), but when the EDU-9 guy gets his bonus, it will be more helpful to him at higher difficulty levels.

Which is what we're looking for in this system--differentation between stats.

==============================
CONCLUSION
==============================

If you use the UGM task system, instead of the MT task system (or any of the MT tweaks...such as the popular Stat/3 tweak), you'll see your higher stat character performing BETTER than your lower stat characters.

Each level of ability will mean something.

 

[Supplement Four]

WHY USE UGM INSTEAD OF MT?


Why use UGM instead of official DGP/MT? It provides just about the same probability, right?

Here's why.

Under DGP/MT, your natural ability is "lumped" together into four "groups".

Group #1 is Stats 1-4. These provide no DM to the task throw.

Group #2 is Stats 5-9. These provide a +1DM to the task throw.

Group #3 is Stats 10-14. These provide a +2DM to the task throw.

Group #4 is Stat 15. This provides a +3DM to the task throw.


So, your EDU-9 Medical-2 guy will make the same exact roll as your EDU-5 Medical-2 guy. BUT, your EDU-10 guy will get a better benefit than your EDU-9 guy.

EDU-10 is better than EDU-9, but EDU-9 isn't better than EDU-8, EDU-7, EDU-6, or EDU-5?

Does that make sense?
Should it be that way?


Under UGM, the guy with the EDU-9 will more than likely get a +1DM on the throw (it's a 83% probability).

But, it's a lot more shaky for your EDU-5 guy (he's only got a 28% chance of getting the +1DM).

And...

Even if BOTH UGM characters GET their Natural Ability bonus, it's going to help the EDU-9 character a lot more.

Why?

Because the EDU-5 guy has to roll a lot lower than the EDU-9 guy in order to get his ability bonus, so when the EDU-9 guy gets it, that bonus is going to be much more helpful at higher difficulty categories.

See, the EDU-5 guy's natural roll results will be: 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

While the EDU-9 guy's natural roll results will be one of these: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 11, 12

So, the EDU-5 guy's bonus is only really going to help him at the ROUTINE task level. If he rolls the max he can roll and still get his bonus (a roll of 5), he'll get a +1DM for his natural ability, then +2 for his skill, giving him a total of 8.

The EDU-9 guy, on the other hand, when getting his bonus on the max roll (a roll of 9), there will be a +1DM for the Natural Ability and a +2DM for skill, giving the EDU-9 guy a total of 12.

So...

Not only will the EDU-9 guy get his bonus more often than the EDU-5 guy (83% chance vs. the 28% chance), but when the EDU-9 guy gets his bonus, it will be more helpful to him at higher difficulty levels.

Which is what we're looking for in this system--differentation between stats.

==============================
CONCLUSION
==============================

If you use the UGM task system, instead of the MT task system (or any of the MT tweaks...such as the popular Stat/3 tweak), you'll see your higher stat character performing BETTER than your lower stat characters.

Each level of ability will mean something.

 

[Supplement Four]

WHY USE CTI INSTEAD OF MT?

I can make the same argument for CTI. You'll get differentation among your stats if you use CTI. You won't get that using MT or one of the MT tweaks.

Not to go into as much detail about the why's as I did above for UGM, I'll just show you the numbers.

Take the example above.

Miik is EDU-9 Medical-2
Zsspt is EDU-5 Medical-2

Both of these characters are attempting a Difficult task.

Under MT, BOTH of these characters have the exact same probability of making this roll.

2D +3 for 11+

Which is an 42% chance of success.


Under CTI, Miik has a 61% chance of success.

Under CTI, Zsspt has a 40% chance of success.


And THAT'S why you'll want to use CTI over MT or a tweak version of MT.

You'll get differentation among the natural ability of different characters.

 

[Supplement Four]

WHY USE CTI INSTEAD OF MT?

I can make the same argument for CTI. You'll get differentation among your stats if you use CTI. You won't get that using MT or one of the MT tweaks.

Not to go into as much detail about the why's as I did above for UGM, I'll just show you the numbers.

Take the example above.

Miik is EDU-9 Medical-2
Zsspt is EDU-5 Medical-2

Both of these characters are attempting a Difficult task.

Under MT, BOTH of these characters have the exact same probability of making this roll.

2D +3 for 11+

Which is an 42% chance of success.


Under CTI, Miik has a 61% chance of success.

Under CTI, Zsspt has a 40% chance of success.


And THAT'S why you'll want to use CTI over MT or a tweak version of MT.

You'll get differentation among the natural ability of different characters.

 

[Michael Taylor]

I'm sorry, but what is UGM?

 

[Michael Taylor]

I'm sorry, but what is UGM?

 

[mike wightman]

Universal Game Mechanic:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000277;p=1#000009

It's a pretty neat CT skill resolution system IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

Universal Game Mechanic:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=44;t=000277;p=1#000009

It's a pretty neat CT skill resolution system IMHO.

 

[Supplement Four]

CTI OR UGM?


Trying to decide between using CTI or UGM in your game?

It's not an easy decision. I'm trying to figure between the two myself for my own personal game.

Both systems are simple and easy to implement.

Both systems fit extremely well with CT.

Both systems require you to change absolutely nothing about CT in order to use them--just drop either CTI or UGM into your game, and walaaa, you've got a task system.

Both systems produce very similar results, probability-wise, between the two systems and the MT/DGP task system.

Both systems provide differentation between each and every attribute, where as MT and the MT tweaks don't.

But, what about the differences?

CTI does a slightly better job of penalizing low stat characters and providing an advantage to high stat characters.

Also, CTI is wonderful in it's method of always allowing some hope, even though it's very small, of any character making an Impossible task. I find that players like the ability, even if the opportunity is small, to roll a success on any task.

But, although a very simple system, CTI can take a couple of read-throughs to understand. It's not a complicated system, but it's also unlike any other Traveller system (heck, any other rpg task system) that's ever been produced.

On the otherhand, the UGM is very easy to understand (roll 2D, +mods, and you succeed on 8+). It's very easy to teach to players.

Eventhough both systems are 2D systems (CTI allows re-rolls, though), UGM is very Classic Traveller specific in it's "2D for 8+" definition.

On the Con side of things, UGM is very much like the MT task system in that a high level of skill will allow that character to "blow away" the lower level categories. CTI typically provides small room for failure (because even the best sometimes screw up).

You could argue that the UGM Spectacular Failure rule accounts for this though.


============================================
BOTTOM LINE
============================================

The bottom line is, CTI has a little bit more under the hood than UGM does. CTI provides slightly better (smoother) results statistically--in that it allows for failure on most task difficulties and models stats a bit better than UGM.

UGM, though, is that beautiful "roll 2D, plus mods, for 8+" thing that IS EXACTLY Classic Traveller.

My recommendation?

Both systems are superior to the MT/DGP task system, and both are easy to use (non-complicated, simple game mechanics).

I think the differences between them are slight.

I would pick whichever system appeals to you personally.

You'll be improving your game with either system you choose.

 

[Supplement Four]

CTI OR UGM?


Trying to decide between using CTI or UGM in your game?

It's not an easy decision. I'm trying to figure between the two myself for my own personal game.

Both systems are simple and easy to implement.

Both systems fit extremely well with CT.

Both systems require you to change absolutely nothing about CT in order to use them--just drop either CTI or UGM into your game, and walaaa, you've got a task system.

Both systems produce very similar results, probability-wise, between the two systems and the MT/DGP task system.

Both systems provide differentation between each and every attribute, where as MT and the MT tweaks don't.

But, what about the differences?

CTI does a slightly better job of penalizing low stat characters and providing an advantage to high stat characters.

Also, CTI is wonderful in it's method of always allowing some hope, even though it's very small, of any character making an Impossible task. I find that players like the ability, even if the opportunity is small, to roll a success on any task.

But, although a very simple system, CTI can take a couple of read-throughs to understand. It's not a complicated system, but it's also unlike any other Traveller system (heck, any other rpg task system) that's ever been produced.

On the otherhand, the UGM is very easy to understand (roll 2D, +mods, and you succeed on 8+). It's very easy to teach to players.

Eventhough both systems are 2D systems (CTI allows re-rolls, though), UGM is very Classic Traveller specific in it's "2D for 8+" definition.

On the Con side of things, UGM is very much like the MT task system in that a high level of skill will allow that character to "blow away" the lower level categories. CTI typically provides small room for failure (because even the best sometimes screw up).

You could argue that the UGM Spectacular Failure rule accounts for this though.


============================================
BOTTOM LINE
============================================

The bottom line is, CTI has a little bit more under the hood than UGM does. CTI provides slightly better (smoother) results statistically--in that it allows for failure on most task difficulties and models stats a bit better than UGM.

UGM, though, is that beautiful "roll 2D, plus mods, for 8+" thing that IS EXACTLY Classic Traveller.

My recommendation?

Both systems are superior to the MT/DGP task system, and both are easy to use (non-complicated, simple game mechanics).

I think the differences between them are slight.

I would pick whichever system appeals to you personally.

You'll be improving your game with either system you choose.