Vladika
SOC-14 1K
This is Traveller, Naval ships. I see no shortage of Nuclear Warheads on most missiles carried aboard.
Using captured ships
- Thread starter Selandia
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This is Traveller, Naval ships. I see no shortage of Nuclear Warheads on most missiles carried aboard.
Also consider that if the L-Hyd fuel tanks aren't dry, breaching charges on interior bulkheads adjacent to fuel tankage will release plenty of H2 into an O2 environment in the presence of the heat of the blast . . .
The cryogenic effect of dropping the pressure will ensure no fire, and once it's leaked in, there's not ENOUGH oxygen for a catastrophic event.
Plus, if you're scuttling, odds are good the fuel tanks are dry, if not shattered, anyway. Fuel loss kills ships quite often under HG.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Compressed hydrogen at, ambient temperature, will heat up on expansion to atmospheric pressure.
Only if it reacts opposite every other compressed fluid I've ever dealt with.
Further, canon is that the LHyd isn't even at ambient - it's cryogenic. A tak rupture instantly kills even those in BD armor in the affected compartment. (AHL, Snapshot)
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Look it up. It does exactly that. Or take a good thermodynamics course.
In the Traveller universe I'm quite happy to follow established cannon.
I guess some demo charges will also make the work.
Well, at the moment, that "code of conduct" is entirely hypothetical.
That's why I've always defended that the most important point here is the setting, incluiding those war rules on it.
So had been surrunding the ship when keeping fighting would only lead to more casualitites. See my own post #43 in this same thread...
Once again, that would depend on war rules/tradition...
If I'm withdrawing, I'll have to fight not only the fleet that just defeated me, but with the addition of the ships I leave behind?
Those ships will of course switch missions should the need arise. Until then, they will fight relentlessly, to the very best of their design abilities. It only takes a single round to recall battle-riders and the vast majority of the well designed small fry, and other screening ships, will survive.
If you're not withdrawing I guess you will not shoot at the cripples, as if you keep the "field" at the end of the day you could recover them, and if you're withdrawing, those same escortss and fighters will be either covering the whithdraw or joining the rest of the fleet to jump away.
Also see that with RAW, no matter how much you keep firing to crippled ships, you won't scuttle them, as they will keep being easily repairable (unless you manage to score more criticals, in which case 1/36 such hits will vaporize one ship).
And usually, firing your own crippled hulls wil mean with more own deaths (that would probably be captured otherwise), something not too good for morale...
I would not call it tactics, while agreeing in your basics, but strategy.
I mean, in a purely tactical single engagement (let's say a TCS contest) whithdrawing means conceding, while in a more strategic game (let's say a TCS campaign), withdrawing may well lead to victory.
Fully agreed.
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You know, I`m a latecomer to this discussion but in skimming through this thread its occured to me, based on a lot of Traveller related wargaming of space battles there is something major that is being overlooked.
I.E space is BIG!
A frequent outcome of many battles is that the derelict and crippled ships from each side end up on opposing vectors travelling at speeds which in many cases would result in the ships eventually leaving the star system they happen to be in.
It kind of looks like the surviving crews on such ships would have other things to worry about than resisting boarding actions. Just staying alive long enough so that anybody, friend or foe could mount a rescue would be a greater priority.
As would keeping life-support working and perhaps getting the maneuver drive working sufficiently well so they can get close enough to surrender to somebody!
The whole term "dead in space" has a rather different meaning when you think about it.
I.E space is BIG!
A frequent outcome of many battles is that the derelict and crippled ships from each side end up on opposing vectors travelling at speeds which in many cases would result in the ships eventually leaving the star system they happen to be in.
It kind of looks like the surviving crews on such ships would have other things to worry about than resisting boarding actions. Just staying alive long enough so that anybody, friend or foe could mount a rescue would be a greater priority.
As would keeping life-support working and perhaps getting the maneuver drive working sufficiently well so they can get close enough to surrender to somebody!
The whole term "dead in space" has a rather different meaning when you think about it.
First of all, being this your first post, welcome aboard.
Yes, space is BIG, but the zone where combat took part is not so much, most crippled ships are in known positions and are valuable enough to try to recover them (aside from representing traffic hazzards if the system has to be used again for comercial traffic).
And about leaving the sysem, they will eventually if they are on the right vectors (otherwise they're likely to eventually fall into a gravity well), but it will take quite a longtime (the first human built probe to do so did it this summer, after 30 years of travel...).
And that's why I firmly believe ther will be some war conventions and that scuttling will not be the norm. As you say, the crews on those cripples will be happy to be rescued by friend or foe, even if that means capture, and my guess is that they will be willing to give up their hull in exchange.
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Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Compressed gas, at ambient temperature, will get very cold when decompressing to ambient pressure. This is why frost forms on fire extinguisher cones.
The expansion will cool the gas down. Mixing with O2 and a spark, will also cause an expansion and will produce heat and light as well, at least briefly.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Please read up on HYDROGEN specifically. (Reverse Joule-Thomson Effect) It exhibits abnormal behavior. I'm very well aware that almost all other gases perform exactly as you say.
Helium, in certain circumstances, CAN exhibit this behavior.
This is for earth normal conditions.
Common knowledge is often wrong. People in the profession are trained to know what works and how. Many things can be Googled but Google can only answer the question as asked. Professionals are also trained in when to ask the odd question, as well as when those oddities pop up.
Two turns of thrust from a typical warship (5-6G) will have it moving faster than that probe. A pursuit battle can result in solar escape velocity very casually, thanks to the drive systems of Traveller.
My point exactly!
The Voyagers took 30 years to do it because they were unpowered thoughout most of their journey using gravitational slingshots to build up velocity.
A typical Traveller type warship can do the same thing in a couple of Mayday/Brilliant Lances/Battle Rider/Power Projection game turns.
A couple of hours usually from a standing start.
Given that, its likely that in the aftermath of a major space battle the priority for the winner is to recover or rescue their own people first, then take a look at what the enemy has left behind afterwards, for humanitarian reasons those sending out GK signals would probably be next on the priority list.
This would likely take a few days, by which time interception of likely salvage targets would be far enough away to represent a major recovery problem, particularly if there are other strategic concerns to think about.
I suspect that it would happen sometimes, a big new type Zhodani dreadnaught with a lot of battle damage would probably seem to be a worthwhile risk for an Imperial admiral to send out some of his escorts on a high V interception and recon mission.
Most of the time though I suspect that they just wouldn`t bother and any system in which a major space battle has taken place probably ends up with a lot of relics of it floating around (from derelict battlewagons to live ammo) in cometary orbits for a very long time afterwards.
Even so, and, of course depending mostly on the ressources the winner side has available, those are very valuable targets for salvage. A single BR recovered is worth billions of credits, and I guess fleets go to great lengths to recover them, mostly if they can take them to the rearguard or they are seen as field repairs may allow it to be taken back.
Using HG/MT rules, many of the derelicts are so becaus fuel tanks shattered results, so easily repairable (even with field repairs) to be taken back, and those are worth many efforts to be taken as intact as posible, as can be added to your lists as soon as crews are available once at a repair base, as the repairs will probably take less time than crew assembly (according to TCS rules they will be repaired in a few weeks once at a base with spare repair capability).
This is even truer in the Rebellion, where ships are the same class in both sides and so spares are likely to be at the base, and crews are likely to know the class, less so in Frontier Wars (and other wars between diferent political entities, so not civil wars), where ships are not so standarized and the main immediate value will be for intelligence.
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The problem with shattered tanks is not so much the holes, it probably wouldn`t be that hard to strip hull plating from some less essential battle-damaged areas to weld and reseal the tanks.
The real trouble is where do you get the fuel to replace the maneuver fuel lost if you cant get tanker craft to you?
In thinking about this I`ve rather come to the conclusion that the job of deep system recovery would rather be the province of specialist `space tug` type ships with 6G maneuver drives, LOTS of fuel tankage and perhaps some specialist repair bays and equipment on board.
I`m also thinking that there would be a need for really huge mobile construction and repair yard type vessels akin to wet navy floating drydock craft.
The real trouble is where do you get the fuel to replace the maneuver fuel lost if you cant get tanker craft to you?
In thinking about this I`ve rather come to the conclusion that the job of deep system recovery would rather be the province of specialist `space tug` type ships with 6G maneuver drives, LOTS of fuel tankage and perhaps some specialist repair bays and equipment on board.
I`m also thinking that there would be a need for really huge mobile construction and repair yard type vessels akin to wet navy floating drydock craft.
