Using CT supplements in MgT?

[Poppyseed45]

Well, after much wrangling and wringing of hands I've finally decided to use MgT rather than CT for my next campaign.

However, I am also lazy, and I've got these nice shiny CT Supplements sitting next to me, and I'm especially eying the Spinward Marches CT supplement. Also, all the old Library Data (I've got the big floppy book).

So...how easy is it to use CT stuff for MgT? Heck, even the 1001 characters can be useful for a quick NPC, no? And the Marches...nothing that needs changing or moving around? Anything I ought to add (like a "cultures" roll from MgT)?

Advice?

 

[hdan]

CT and MgT are pretty compatible with each other. Certainly at the "high level" they are, though down at the grittier end of the system there are some differences you'll need to watch out for.

The animal rules are changed a good bit, and many starship designs will need to be reworked. (Though I think all the classics are already converted, so don't worry too much about that one.)

The basic skill lists aren't quite the same. For instance, there's no "Bribery" or "Forgery" in MgT. "Deception" and "Persuade" seem to cover these. Likewise missing is "Admin", which is a staple of CT. "Advocate", "Diplomat" and "Comms" might be able to cover different aspects of "Admin". You'll need to use some judgement when converting skill-heavy adventures, like "Exit Visa".

One more thing about skills - MgT characters tend to have a LOT more of them, more like what you'd expect from a Book 4 or Book 5 character, though not quite that dense. There is also "Level 0", which means you don't take a penalty to use the skill, but you aren't particularly good at it. CT characters had the equivalent of "level 0" for all weapons, but the system was never really institutionalized. The upshot is that in MgT, characters wind up becoming more about their skills and skill levels than they were in CT. CT characters were assumed to know the basics of whatever service they were in (the equivalent of MgT's "Basic Training") in a vague way, but actually be good in the few things they gained skill with. IMHO MgT's system fits better with modern RPG sensibilities, but I have a lingering fondness for CT's open-ended nature. ("I was an officer in the Army - I know how to fill out a requisition form, even though I don't have Admin!")

Armor works very differently in MgT. In CT, it reduced your chance to hit, but in MgT it blocks damage. Use the MgT weapons and armor values and you'll be ok. The stats are pretty close between CT and MgT. For example, an Autopistol does 3D-6 in MgT, but 3D in CT. However, things tend to average out, since in CT the pistol would have a hard time hitting against heavy armor, and in MgT it will have a hard time causing any damage against heavy armor. I haven't run the math, but I suspect it sort of winds up being about the same. Some people think armor values should be double their listed value in MgT though, so you might want to do some test combats and adjust accordingly.

Also, the combat procedure in MgT is more detailed than in CT. Characters have initiative, and different actions can change your initiative number, etc.

Some of the old adventures have ad-hoc task resolution rules, like "Roll 10+ to avoid mishap, +2 per level of <relevant skill>". You'll need to convert those. Or not - if your players don't mind stepping back from the MgT task resolution system a little, you can just use the rules as written.

The world generation "cultures" aren't really used in the MgT source books, so you're not going to be missing anything there. You might want to go back and apply them for fun, but you'd be doing that either way.

 

[saundby]

That pretty well covers my experience, too.

When I pre-read a CT adventure before running it, I flag the things that'll need a look for adjusting. Usually skills, weapons and armor. Then I make notations of the changes later, with the MGT CRB at hand to keep my wandering memory in check.

After the first few adventures, though, I got to where I could just flag the places where I'd need to change some numbers or something on the pre-read, then do the rest on the fly as we played. I've run several adventures this way now. The way the old adventures were written makes it easy to figure out what to apply once you're used to MGT. Personally, I prefer them over many of the overly-wordy write-ups of the present.

 

[Poppyseed45]

Much snippage

Thanks for that. Really comprehensive and, well, good to know. That's what I was hoping to see.

Interesting about the cultures things. I just sort of assumed MgT would be using it since they make sure to have that nice shiny table there. It means I can use the Spinward marches or Solomani RIm as is without buying theirs (unless the descriptions that are supposedly there so worth it?).

 

[Poppyseed45]

Forgot to add - I agree with you Hdan. I generally assume common sense with players anyway; it was one of the reasons it took me so long to decide between using CT or MgT. I really like the hand-wavey "use your brain with what makes sense, right?" vibe in CT. I know MgT does certain things better IMO (and that's why I finally decided to go with it) but CT still has a powerful charm as I get older.

 

[aramis]

Well, after much wrangling and wringing of hands I've finally decided to use MgT rather than CT for my next campaign.

However, I am also lazy, and I've got these nice shiny CT Supplements sitting next to me, and I'm especially eying the Spinward Marches CT supplement. Also, all the old Library Data (I've got the big floppy book).

So...how easy is it to use CT stuff for MgT? Heck, even the 1001 characters can be useful for a quick NPC, no? And the Marches...nothing that needs changing or moving around? Anything I ought to add (like a "cultures" roll from MgT)?

Advice?

Anything but ships, vehicles, characters and weapons needs no conversion...

Ships: most of the ones you'll need are in the rulebooks.
Vehicles: when you get the vehicles book, you'll have what you need. Until then, faking it (like one had to do in CT, anyway) is no harder than in CT.
Characters: The skill lists are similar, but not identical. You can fake it easily enough. But note the MGT "Low End=Glass Jaw" effect...
Weapons: They don't convert well at all. But most have direct equivalents.

 

[77topaz]

Characters: The skill lists are similar, but not identical. You can fake it easily enough. But note the MGT "Low End=Glass Jaw" effect...

What's the Low End-Glass Jaw effect?

 

[aramis]

What's the Low End-Glass Jaw effect?

In CT, any character with a low stat could be KO'd by a relatively light hit... if the first hit landed on the low attribute.

In MGT, End is always hit first. Therefore, low End means the character is easily KO'd. Glass Jaw is a nickname for the inability to remain conscious from blows to the head in Boxing.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Not to argue, but a couple of fallacies are cropping up

First, Admin _does_ exist in Traveller (page 51 of rulebook, on all the character sheets...).

Second, you are right about the way damage is applied to End first, but not how damage works. You get KO'd when a second stat goes down to 0, not when End does. Page 65. There is an optional rule that lets you get KO'd if one attack reduces your End to 0, but it is optional.

Mencelus: I know what you mean about the old charm, as we are currently playing a red box Basic D&D campaign, and that has a very similar feel. When putting together the new Traveller, we wanted to keep theat feel and ability to use common sense, but also provide structure for those not used to playing like that. If you approach this Traveller in the same way as you do Classic, you won't go far wrong (and players tend to _love_ the character creation rules in the new book!).

 

[77topaz]

First, Admin _does_ exist in Traveller (page 51 of rulebook, on all the character sheets...).

It's about Mongoose Traveller specifically - not just Traveller (I hope that's what you meant).

 

[MongooseMatt]

It's about Mongoose Traveller specifically - not just Traveller (I hope that's what you meant).

It exists in our book too

 

[hdan]

I'm not sure how I missed Admin in my sweep through the book, considering it's the first skill in the list. Though my printing is older and the page number doesn't quite match.

So my apologies for spreading misinformation.

 

[saundby]

Hi guys,

Not to argue, but a couple of fallacies are cropping up

First, Admin _does_ exist in Traveller (page 51 of rulebook, on all the character sheets...).

Second, you are right about the way damage is applied to End first, but not how damage works. You get KO'd when a second stat goes down to 0, not when End does. Page 65. There is an optional rule that lets you get KO'd if one attack reduces your End to 0, but it is optional.

Mencelus: I know what you mean about the old charm, as we are currently playing a red box Basic D&D campaign, and that has a very similar feel. When putting together the new Traveller, we wanted to keep theat feel and ability to use common sense, but also provide structure for those not used to playing like that. If you approach this Traveller in the same way as you do Classic, you won't go far wrong (and players tend to _love_ the character creation rules in the new book!).

Yes, character creation is what sold my group on the new rules during playtest. They told me we'd stay with the new rules when we returned to our prior CT adventure. I've used a lot of the new material, and I've enjoyed mixing new with old.

My "power gamers" like having the Hammer's Slammers hardware in-game, and even my "old-timers" have come to like MGT enough they're disinclined to go back to pure CT (the Spica books clinched that, I think.)

Bottom line is MGT mixes very well with CT, writing this has taken longer than "converting" an adventure usually takes. And having both the treasure trove of the CT CD and new publications to draw from is very nice.

 

[BytePro]

I love some of the changes Mongoose has introduced, and the commonality with CT. After a bit of experimentation and several games, I decided to switch back to CT and just adopt my favorite parts from MgT into CT. Notably:

Dropped the universal task system in.
Added events check for each term in chargen.
Added homeworld and basic training type level-0 skills.
Added connection skills! (edit)​

I have not used the new skill lists nor combat, operations nor design rules. However, I have used bits and pieces from MgT to augment these areas of CT.

I love the conciseness of the CT rules (I use only 6 LBBs) and their lack of 'detail' in many areas. My 30 year old LBBs also are in much better physical shape than my 5 year old MgT (whose covers have peeled, bindings have broken, and edges and pages are smudged). I also prefer the typesetting of the CT LBBs - easier on the eyes, IMO and more professional.

Don't misunderstand, I still recommend buying MgT - due to excellent customer support and enthusiasm for the beloved game as well as the rule and content gems that exist.

 

[Poppyseed45]

I love some of the changes Mongoose has introduced, and the commonality with CT. After a bit of experimentation and several games, I decided to switch back to CT and just adopt my favorite parts from MgT into CT. Notably:

Dropped the universal task system in.
Added events check for each term in chargen.
Added homeworld and basic training type level-0 skills.
Added connection skills! (edit)​

I have not used the new skill lists nor combat, operations nor design rules. However, I have used bits and pieces from MgT to augment these areas of CT.

I love the conciseness of the CT rules (I use only 6 LBBs) and their lack of 'detail' in many areas. My 30 year old LBBs also are in much better physical shape than my 5 year old MgT (whose covers have peeled, bindings have broken, and edges and pages are smudged). I also prefer the typesetting of the CT LBBs - easier on the eyes, IMO and more professional.

Don't misunderstand, I still recommend buying MgT - due to excellent customer support and enthusiasm for the beloved game as well as the rule and content gems that exist.

And now you make me conflicted again. CT was SO good that I'm still finding it hard to pin down MgT or CT for my next Traveller game; I thought declaring it on this site would help me decide. But now...gah!

 

[MongooseMatt]

And now you make me conflicted again. CT was SO good that I'm still finding it hard to pin down MgT or CT for my next Traveller game; I thought declaring it on this site would help me decide. But now...gah!

If I were evil, I would suggest running a character creation session for your players with MgT, then letting them decide.

If I were evil...

 

[McPerth]

If I were evil...

Defending one's interests is not being evil. Less so if you really believe on what you try to sell (and I think this is the case).

But beware, as the question opening the OP works both ways, and those Mgt generated characters may also be used to play CT with equal ease...:devil:

 

[Soylent_Green]

I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm planning to put one of my (solo MGT campaign) characters through the CT adventure Marooned Alone as a prelude to the campaign, principally to get me used to the rules mechanics after a hiatus in mt roleplaying of more than a few years.

From memory the adventure features animal encounters and some combat - looks like I'll need to make some adjustments. I also need to find a suitable (canon) system for it to all happen somewhere near Aldaya (Usher, Reft), rather than the original setting in the Solomani Rim.

 

[WarriorKnight]

I love MgT,but my group likes T4(I got them to play Traveller again with it ).So I run 2 Mgt games,& we still run our other games using T4.When I talk about T5 they almost come unhenged. o: Everyone except one player rolled up End's of 4(never had the before.)I'm using all my CT adventures & even some D&D adventures(Their on Sorel TL 2).I'm currently running a certain game on an Imperial warship in an asteroid field :devil: .