Using D20 Modern for T20: The Feats
- Thread starter tjoneslo
- Start date
This has the potential to degenerate into a flame war, but I can't resist.
1) D&D3 is designed for a specific kind of campaign, namely high fantasy. The addition of technology beyond the middle ages (cf. Dragonstar) throws the rule set completely out of wack. D20M, being designed to incorporate technology, does not suffer this failure. My (limited) experience has been games who want to play modern or high tech campagins will find the D20M rules. People who don't care, won't.
2) This isn't an official product release. It is my pet project. This may never see the light of day beyond a few random posts on these boards.
I specificly object to the "invalidate... entire campaigns". There are no canon police which will force you to change or update your campain in any way.
1) D&D3 is designed for a specific kind of campaign, namely high fantasy. The addition of technology beyond the middle ages (cf. Dragonstar) throws the rule set completely out of wack. D20M, being designed to incorporate technology, does not suffer this failure. My (limited) experience has been games who want to play modern or high tech campagins will find the D20M rules. People who don't care, won't.
2) This isn't an official product release. It is my pet project. This may never see the light of day beyond a few random posts on these boards.
I specificly object to the "invalidate... entire campaigns". There are no canon police which will force you to change or update your campain in any way.
TJL: Was responding to the requests that a new version of T20 be based off D20M, specifically as a baseline rulset release, not as a set of house rules.
I could care less what you do in your own time.
But invalidating extant campaigns has happened enough in traveller history by changes to core rulesets, don't ya' think, so I would much rather NOT see a T20M "proposal" for "official" rules. Which is what others appear to have been clamoring for.
I could care less what you do in your own time.
But invalidating extant campaigns has happened enough in traveller history by changes to core rulesets, don't ya' think, so I would much rather NOT see a T20M "proposal" for "official" rules. Which is what others appear to have been clamoring for.
I believe that Traveller's prior history is a huge bonus rather then a hinderance. What the character does in prior history is vague enough to add in the details you want and gives the character nice depth and sometimes even good conflict.
As for the Starship Combat rules, I'm not sure yet, I'll just have to see what my GM does when that happens and knowing my group it will.
Feats from other systems I think shouldn't be a problem to add into Traveller. 3.0 and 3.5 is not the huge gap, it is simply just clarification and more choice.
My only bitch about Traveller is the lack of varity in the weapons and equipement. D20 Modern has a whole book on Weapons and has a lot of equipment as does Future. I've yet to get the Traveller's aid that has new weapons so this bitch of mine may end but it is something that slighlty annoys me.
As for the Starship Combat rules, I'm not sure yet, I'll just have to see what my GM does when that happens and knowing my group it will.
Feats from other systems I think shouldn't be a problem to add into Traveller. 3.0 and 3.5 is not the huge gap, it is simply just clarification and more choice.
My only bitch about Traveller is the lack of varity in the weapons and equipement. D20 Modern has a whole book on Weapons and has a lot of equipment as does Future. I've yet to get the Traveller's aid that has new weapons so this bitch of mine may end but it is something that slighlty annoys me.
M
Malenfant
Guest
I don't think they are the same thing functionally though are they? IIRC Massive Damage is a fortitude roll you have to make if you take more than X points of damage in one round, to see if you stay standing. Whereas Lifeblood is supposed to represent you actually taking physical damage and suffering because of it instead of blows glancing off your hero field (represented by hit points).
Personally, I'd say ditch hit points all together, and just take all damage to lifeblood/con. Makes combat much more lethal (and closer to CT too).
OK. Calm down. Have a Coke and a smile.
Let me clarify what I meant earlier.
I do not believe T20 needs an overhaul.
If there was any sort of update to T20, like a second edition, the only thing that it would need is to make it more compatible with d20 Modern.
That does not mean throwing out anything current. My whole idea was that there could be an alternate rule box placed somewhere that would say if your using d20 Modern, this is how these classes would work, here is how you can solve conflicts between two similar feats.
By the way, I think the stamina/lifeblood system is THE best. There is a similar setup in d20 Star Wars, but I think it works a bit different so that its actually harder to kill a character.
When it comes to T20's stamina/lifeblood system, I will be using it to replace hit dice in other genres including Modern.
Let me clarify what I meant earlier.
I do not believe T20 needs an overhaul.
If there was any sort of update to T20, like a second edition, the only thing that it would need is to make it more compatible with d20 Modern.
That does not mean throwing out anything current. My whole idea was that there could be an alternate rule box placed somewhere that would say if your using d20 Modern, this is how these classes would work, here is how you can solve conflicts between two similar feats.
By the way, I think the stamina/lifeblood system is THE best. There is a similar setup in d20 Star Wars, but I think it works a bit different so that its actually harder to kill a character.
When it comes to T20's stamina/lifeblood system, I will be using it to replace hit dice in other genres including Modern.
Kevin Livingston
SOC-9
:::BUMP:::
I haven't worked on this project since the beginning of the year. It still exists as a word document on my (frequently backed up) hard drive. But it is in absolutley no shape to put into a public PDF.
What I got stuck on was how much to put into the document. I found that in addition to the D20 Modern/Future rules and the T20 book, there were about dozen other books/pdfs I was using. So did I want to only make a list of references (like above) and create a 20-30 page document. Or should I copy everything in and create a 250 page document. Or something in between.
There were a couple of other rules related questions I didn't know how to resolve, but that was the big one.
If people are interested in the project, let me know and I'll dig it back up and do more work on it.
What I got stuck on was how much to put into the document. I found that in addition to the D20 Modern/Future rules and the T20 book, there were about dozen other books/pdfs I was using. So did I want to only make a list of references (like above) and create a 20-30 page document. Or should I copy everything in and create a 250 page document. Or something in between.
There were a couple of other rules related questions I didn't know how to resolve, but that was the big one.
If people are interested in the project, let me know and I'll dig it back up and do more work on it.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Put me down as an interested party too
My usual writing schedule for gaming materials is on the weekends. This weekend I'm at a con. Next weekend I'll try and write up my copous notes on social interaction rules for D20 for a playtest, and the following weekend I'll see if I can finish the entire D20 modern for T20 enough to post it to interested parties.
Someone should elect themselves to poke me if I fail to keep to this schedule.
Someone should elect themselves to poke me if I fail to keep to this schedule.
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
I would also be interested in seeing what you have come up with.
archhealer
SOC-12
Just for the record, I just finished a comprehensive list of D20 Modern feats that I wanted to use in T20. Most of them are martial arts and unarmed combat-related.
Among other, well known hiccups in T20, I've felt (And this isn't T20 specific at all) that D20 on the whole has yet to come up with a really good unarmed combat system. However, many of the martial arts feats in D20 Modern work quite well in T20, though I did opt to decrease the damages by 1 die for the ones that increase unarmed damage.
I also made Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Martial Arts the same feat, combining the benefits and makeing them a stylistic difference.
Improved Unarmed Strike: "I'm gonna break your face, widdle man"
Combat Martial Arts: "Wataaahhh!"
Among other, well known hiccups in T20, I've felt (And this isn't T20 specific at all) that D20 on the whole has yet to come up with a really good unarmed combat system. However, many of the martial arts feats in D20 Modern work quite well in T20, though I did opt to decrease the damages by 1 die for the ones that increase unarmed damage.
I also made Improved Unarmed Strike and Combat Martial Arts the same feat, combining the benefits and makeing them a stylistic difference.
Improved Unarmed Strike: "I'm gonna break your face, widdle man"
Combat Martial Arts: "Wataaahhh!"
It's a little complicated, and it very much unbalances a game unless everyone has access to it, but Ken Hood's skills-n-feats martial arts system is very good.
You can download it from my T20 Downloads page.
Crashlogic
SOC-8
Well one benefit the modern ruls have is in the basic class/career choice. I think this is superior to the straight classes for a variety of reasons. The best one is that it allows diversity to careers. One can do a lot of different things in the service-some people my be smart, others fast, and others tough- A naval intelligence officer looks very different on paper than a veteran spacer maste chief who has been thrown out of every bar in five subsectors.
Similarly a marine interrogator might look very different on paper than a marine grunt.
Having marines as an occupation rather than a class opens the door to a background generation system more in line with the LLBB's.
Secondly, T20's prestige classes are shite, for the most part. A change to D20 modern opens the door up to a more diverse range of prestige and advance classes.
Yet somethings should not be changed: the stamina/lifeblood system is subtley different from the massive damage system. The armour rules in T20 produce interesting results, and see to capture some of the deadliness of original traveller combat.
Also the base attack values in T20 modern are too high for most classes, traveller is meant to reflect that trained personnell will be vastly superior at combat than untrained.
I guess I seek to have a system as diverse as GURPS Traveller in terms of character possibilites, yet that is as easy to run as T20. This could be the way to a happy medium.
I would also think about the spycraft system of complex challenges invovling long term skill use.
I agree about the starship combat system needs development, but really that is something that should be handdled in its own supplement.
Similarly a marine interrogator might look very different on paper than a marine grunt.
Having marines as an occupation rather than a class opens the door to a background generation system more in line with the LLBB's.
Secondly, T20's prestige classes are shite, for the most part. A change to D20 modern opens the door up to a more diverse range of prestige and advance classes.
Yet somethings should not be changed: the stamina/lifeblood system is subtley different from the massive damage system. The armour rules in T20 produce interesting results, and see to capture some of the deadliness of original traveller combat.
Also the base attack values in T20 modern are too high for most classes, traveller is meant to reflect that trained personnell will be vastly superior at combat than untrained.
I guess I seek to have a system as diverse as GURPS Traveller in terms of character possibilites, yet that is as easy to run as T20. This could be the way to a happy medium.
I would also think about the spycraft system of complex challenges invovling long term skill use.
I agree about the starship combat system needs development, but really that is something that should be handdled in its own supplement.
