Vent-Rant MegaTraveller what I hate about it.

[Murph]

Rant on:

What I hate about MegaTraveller:

1) System design got way, way over complicated and unless you are a gearhead, it got in the way. Book 2 and High Guard was good enough for me. Striker made it miserable, but fixed the terrible combat system. It became impossible to design a worthwhile 6g/J4 ship. Also it was almost too hard to design a ship without a spreadsheet.
2) Kill the Emperor, kill the Imperium- I realize that the 3I was getting a little stale, but what about the other sectors? Antares? Reavers Deep? etc?
3) Vargr being able to take over anything like sectors, just too much for me to swallow, even system defense forces could take the corsairs and small empires. Sorry can't believe this.
4) Aslan swamping of the Trojan Reach, sorry, they are coming in older ships, with their families, not gonna happen.
5) Virus- *runs screaming in disgust*!
6) Everything else got way-way complicated and got in the way of running a good game.
7) Combat system never got better, just more complex. I ended up using Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.


What I liked about MT:

1) High Guard Character Generation- finally Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts and Merchant Prince Chargen in one place.
2) System Generation updates
3) Not much else- more as reference material for CT.

Keeping it civil and polite, can we say what we DISLIKED the most about MegaTraveller? And those few things we liked?

 

[far-trader]

Briefly, my top one of each:

Disliked (I hate to say hate ): The errata. That alone pretty much if not completely killed our game. We were gung-ho to play but by the time we figured out and collected enough errata corrections to be able to use the rules we had moved on as I recall.

Liked (a lot really): The production quality (editing/errata aside). It was a lovely game set, with beautiful books, lots of great supplements. Splashy colour cover art, good (mostly) interior B&W art. Fairly well organized and collected. It was what it promised to be, CT+ updated. All the old CT goodness, many of the common house-rules cum official, in one spiffy package.

...if the errata problem hadn't been there we'd have played the thing to death, and I daresay it would have had a much longer life. We might all still be playing it and there'd have been no T4, TNE, T20, MgT or anything else. We'd just be into the 7th printing of MT with a gazillion supplements

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

I didn't think MT was bad or anything, but to be honest, for me one thing that did stick out to me was the artwork. Iit wasn't that I thought it was bad or anything, but rather a lot of the images included in the books didn't really correspond to how I had already been envisioning some stuff, which kind of made it harder for me to kind of relate MT stuff to what I hard already been using.

Also some of the layout was a bit too condensed and cluttered for me to easily find stuff.

Regards

PF

 

[HG_B]

My biggest gripe: "Out of the box" is was unplayable due to the worst editing of any major game I've ever purchased.

AFTER I'd gathered all the errata, it turned out to be the best Trav version to date (not counting the 'virus' psychosis). This was years later though.

 

[robject]

1) System design got way, way over complicated and unless you are a gearhead, it got in the way.

I think the level of detail was OK: it was the roughness that made it impossible. If it had gotten some tuning it would have been near perfect IMO.

 

[mike wightman]

Virus wasn't MT - virus was introduced to wipe the slate so that TNE could be born.

If you managed to pick up one of the very last printings of the game then you won't know what all this talk of errata is since most of it was now incorporated into the text.

As an avid fan I bought it as soon as I could (players manual as a separate book with different binding).

I hated the PM cover.

I hated the combat system.

When I bought the boxed set to get the 2 books I was missing (shame they didn't change the PM cover) I was delighted.

It was then the penny dropped. The good folk at GDW had got some other folks(DGP) to actually write this game for them and there wasn't much of an editing system.

Plus once again I am convinced that no one at GDW actually read their own rules thoroughly enough because the DGP folks went back to using the original CT jump paradigm of full fuel use for a jump regardless of distance. Despite the fact that this had been changed in HG1, HG2, CT revised, TTB, SE. So chalk that one up as a hate.

I cannot fault the IE.

And Hard Times remains one of my favourite eras to set a game in.

 

[McPerth]

First of all I must say MT is my favorite version of Traveller.

Althought that doesn't mind I see no flaws on it:

- Trade system: I find it too easy to manipulate and get rich unless you play with Don McKinney's variant (see my entry on MT trae variant Thread, Dec 8th). I already hated it at Merchant Prince.

- Combat system: anyway I've always used a variant of AHL combat system.

- Ship combat: I already hated it at HG because the easyness to capture and the nearly impossibility to destroy a ship (I put some entries about that on the threads 'all warships should have drop tanks' and 'using captured ships', on the Fleet forums this site). I miss a ship combat system for roleplaying, as this one is mostly strategic.

- Neither I liked the fragmentation of the Imperium, but I concede it gave a more interesting playing background, for it was less stable, at least for those players who like exploration and conflict.

- I agree some of the background history was unbelievable (the Vargr advance, etc), at least with HG rules, where the difference in TL (and so computers) is vital on the TH and penetrate tables.

- They seem to assume that any player was familiar with CT rules, for some parts were not usable without falling back on them (e.g. robots).

What I most liked:

- Character generation system (once errata are used).

- Ship/vehicle design system (also, with errata used).

- Background supplements.

- Task system.

- Jack of All Trades skill treatment (easily transferable to any version)

I don't even mention the virus, as I see as a form of killing MT to make way for TNE. I really don't think it was the end designers envisioned initially, as in some supplements (e.g. Hard Times) there are references that seem to point to a reunification.

Most of what I've said here is also explained (some of it with more detail) on my entry on thread 'how badly whould I get flamed...' on Dec 12th, in this MT forum.

 

[aramis]

Mike: Virus was introduced in the last MT-dress product, which also was the the first with a TNE line stock number: Survival Margin: Gateway to the New Era.

 

[robject]

- Trade system: I find it too easy to manipulate and get rich unless you play with Don McKinney's variant (see my entry on MT trae variant Thread, Dec 8th). I already hated it at Merchant Prince.

I find Merchant Prince and its children "not very fun". Just an impression.

What I most liked:

- Character generation system (once errata are used).

- Ship/vehicle design system (also, with errata used).

- Background supplements.

- Task system.

- Jack of All Trades skill treatment (easily transferable to any version)

Many of these were very good, and all (even trade) showed promise, but I felt some lacked a spark.

 

[mike wightman]

Mike: Virus was introduced in the last MT-dress product, which also was the the first with a TNE line stock number: Survival Margin: Gateway to the New Era.

Yes I know, it sort of bridged the gap between paradigms.

And it was also written up in Challenge magazine.

Fact remains that Virus was invented to herald TNE.

If GDW hadn't decided to adopt their lousy d20 house system for Traveller I doubt if the setting would have changed so radically, Virus wouldn't have been needed.

But then there is also the thought that GDW had decided that the MT era itself was pants so they wanted to flatten it and move on. After all we got a tech paradigm shift too...

 

[kafka47]

Dislike, as I am on record with MegaTraveller being my favorite version of Traveller.

Spinward Marches - safe...did not make any sense...the hotbed of all conflict during the CT reign suddenly quiet.

Black Duke - GDW did take sides. Dulinor was wrongly slighted from the get go.

Insufficient support in Challenge & Product line for the Rebellion, as one hardly knew one was going on.

The Rules...the rules...some were good but overly complicated compared to CT.

 

[BardicHeart]

What I like about MT

Greater level of detail than CT. I like having more options for starships, not just more weapons (which was less important to me) but being able to add labs, machine shops, solar power, and even extrapolate for things like green houses and orbital ore processing, etc.

Loved the HardTimes book and setting. This was the first time I'd seen a serious approach to an advanced society in decline instead of boldly advancing. It was refreshing then, and it is still interesting to me now. I find the rules useful even for situations where maybe some worlds are on the rise, but others are in decline (a ATU where not all parts of the Imperium are doing equally well for example). HardTimes has remained a favorite source book of mine even when playing other sci-fi / space opera games.

The support for advanced tech up thru antimatter power plants, etc. Nice to have if you're either dealing with a mad scientific genius, advanced military project, or alien technology.


Things I disliked...

All the errata, this alone just about killed MT for me, made it almost unplayable and hard to keep players at a table (they tend to have little patience with that sort of thing in my experience).

I thought the Rebellion felt "scripted" and wasn't as intresting as it could have been. I'd liked to have seen possibly more diversity (i.e., wealthy noble families going independent and forming pocket empires, negotiating with the major factions for their support, etc.), something with more political and social complexity (I think the Fading Suns setting did a fairly good job of this).

Wasn't all that thrilled with the Players vs Referees books (I found myself swapping between them to handle basic things too often for my taste). I think it would have gone better having a core rules, star ship manual, etc. Have everything related to handling encounters in one place for example.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Actually the only think I dislike in Mega/Rules was the Clunky style chargen. While a bit better (Brownie points, select instead of roll for skill) it was quite outdated by the time MT came along. 2300AD did WAY better.

Aside from that it still is THE single best Traveller system beating modern variants in one area or another and being equal in all others. Granted, I have a late printing (benefit of overseas market) so errata was partially done.

====

Mega/Storyline is one of the best once you get to HardTimes. Gateway/983 is IMHO slightly better but works on a similar basic assumption. HighTech IS availabel - sometimes, imported from far away and costly. The Empire IS powerful - in some far away regions. There ARE powerful alien/foreign entities - but not here.

That's the right setting for adventure. Read it, loved it, dropped the Boring Marches and it's leather-clad CSD duke for good.

 

[skyth]

I like Megatraveller best of all the Traveller versions I've seen.

Granted, I am a gear-head so that appeals to me.

The Rebellion setting is much more interesting that the default setting. It's more a setting of adventure, whereas the Imperium is a setting of stasis.

I like that characters grew via experience in play rather than having to take a sabatical.

I don't much care for the space combat system, but it is the same system as High Guard from Classic Traveller. Armor and Agility is WAY too important.

Personally, what I would really love to do is run Space Master in the Traveller/Megatraveller universe

 

[robject]

Personally, what I would really love to do is run Space Master in the Traveller/Megatraveller universe

I had mapped out the SpaceMaster empires (whatever you call them) for a friend onto the Traveller 2d map of Charted Space. Took less than a dozen sectors... very doable.

 

[BardicHeart]

I'd officially like to strangle whoever left robot rules out of MT. :devil:

Which, coincedentally seem to have been left out of more or less every other edition of rules. CT has them. MT doesn't. TNE does, T4 doesn't (at least not that I've seen). MGT does. GT sort of monkey wrenches that pattern... but still, kind of peculiar.

 

[aramis]

T4 uses TNE's. All the fundamental T4 design sequences are taken from TNE.

 

[grendelttroll]

I'd officially like to strangle whoever left robot rules out of MT. :devil:

Which, coincedentally seem to have been left out of more or less every other edition of rules. CT has them. MT doesn't. TNE does, T4 doesn't (at least not that I've seen). MGT does. GT sort of monkey wrenches that pattern... but still, kind of peculiar.

For those few who are unfamiliar ( ): Book 8: Robots was a CT work that was still being published after MT came out. It was, along with the Darrian Alien Module, the last CT product to be published for CT......

What we did (and was expected) was we used Book 8 to create the brains and the core MT rules for the chassis. It was clumsy (a true MT mini-add-on should've been released) but it worked. There were examples of these 'bots in the mags.....

 

[Murph]

The rules got in the way of play. Rules should be nearly invisible/seamless so that play flows and you do not spend 10-15 minutes looking up arcane rule #1245 on how to zip up the curtain around the turbo-flush....

Dislike, as I am on record with MegaTraveller being my favorite version of Traveller.

Spinward Marches - safe...did not make any sense...the hotbed of all conflict during the CT reign suddenly quiet.

Black Duke - GDW did take sides. Dulinor was wrongly slighted from the get go.

Insufficient support in Challenge & Product line for the Rebellion, as one hardly knew one was going on.

The Rules...the rules...some were good but overly complicated compared to CT.

 

[Tobias]

Good stuff:
- The layout (and the flowcharts)
- The publishing concept (Player's, Referee's, Encyclopedia)
- Character generation (although I'd have preferred leaving out the Bk4/5/6 generation and expanding a little more on the Bk1 version) and skills.
- The supplements, especially the two alien modules.
- The idea of a unified design system (but see below)
- The task system
- Especially the interpersonal tasks. Much better than the stupid random reaction tables in CT.
- The early Rebellion background (before it became all grimdark)

Bad stuff:
- The poor editing.
- The combat system. Poor compromise between detail and playability. Not detailed enough for a simulation, not free-form enough for a narrative system. Too many hard breakpoints (range and damage.)
- The space combat system. Uninspired mish-mash of High Guard and a hex movement system, did not mesh with the rest of the system at all.
- The actual execution of the design system. The attempt to fuze STRIKER and HG was a laudable goal - but they ended up with the worst of both worlds, and some all-new superfluous stuff added on top of it. Lost some crucial detail of STRIKER, lost the simplicity of HG. Also, not comprehensive enough (no Robots, no wet navy, no aircraft in the basic rules.)
- Some of the little changes the TU: The proliferation of TL-16 worlds, the new jump fuel formula, hull grid jump drives etc.

"Meh, good enough" stuff:
- Trading, encounters, psionics, system generation. All straight from preceding CT sources, but updated for the task system in a reasonable enough fashion.

IMHO, MT really showed where the focus of the DGP folks as players (and writers) was: Story, detail, roleplaying, worldbuilding, characters. The simulationist and wargame-ish aspects apparently were less interesting to them, as the lackluster efforts in the area of combat, especially space combat, systems show.
The logical successor to MegaTraveller should have been a second edition in which its issues would have been adressed and corrected. (A new space combat system was already in the works, it appears.) But instead GDW, in a common but foolish pattern, opted to trash everything and rebuild from scratch (I am not referring to the background here.)