Vent-Rant MegaTraveller what I hate about it.

[AndreaV]

Is it my imagination or is it getting a tad warm in this thread?

I'm possibly the ultimate heretic (I play and like T4, can't much more heretical).

I like CT and I used to like MT. MT's mechanics are to my eye a bit like an 80's hairdo; seemed kind of cool at the time, but you look back and shudder. The mechanics are fine once you understand them, but you really needed an experienced player to explain them to you.

However the biggest "issue" I have with MT was DGP's constant playing fast and loose with canon. It occurred mostly in their own material but crept into the GDW published stuff too.

ForEx: Lords of Thunder. Everyone says its a great adventure one of the best etc... But take a close look at it. There are two essential "truths" about the K'kree all through CT canon. Both of them fundamental to the race's nature. First is they are VERY conservative (they make Rush Limbaugh look like a dangerous revolutionary radical). Second they are equally chauvinistic, regarding themselves as quite literally creation's ultimate expression of perfection.

So you have the Lords of Thunder, an even MORE conservative and chauvinistic group of K'kree and in the adventure we find they are genetically modifying themselves to remove their herd nature (something that so shocked the K'kree, that when the Hiver's did it to them, the sterilized the planets and still don't let people near them.) And all done to give a McGuffin. Sadly when you look at MT, you keep finding things like this (the shift in Vland's orbit is another fav of mine or the ZS's variable borders.)

STILL... having bitched about what I don't like, what I do like? The characters. MT was the first step from a plot driven universe to a character driven one. CT mentioned important characters and even sketched out a handful (Marc Oberlindes and Duke Norris spring to mind), but MT took this to a much higher level and we get most of the interesting OTU characters from MT.

(Okay rant mode off)

 

[rancke]

I'm possibly the ultimate heretic (I play and like T4, can't much more heretical).

You can't? I thought T4 was in the same ballpark as CT and MT. QSDS1.5 is IMO the best ship design system before or since (though that doesn't mean I think it was perfect).

Personally I try to stick as closely to the OTU as I can but cheerfully use my house rules (Which are sort of GURPSy but with D20s). That's probably even more heretical.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Is it my imagination or is it getting a tad warm in this thread?

Battlemech cockpit warm, but not yet to flameproof suit levels.

I'm possibly the ultimate heretic (I play and like T4, can't much more heretical).

Oh, it's quite easy to be more heretical...

Hybrid rules and non-OTU setting using the OTU sectors as part of the non-OTU universe...

 

[Murph]

Another thought I have had is why the Aslan go Coreward when there is all that real-estate rimward? Same to some extent with the Solomani, except for the grudge match with the 3I.

 

[far-trader]

Another thought I have had is why the Aslan go Coreward when there is all that real-estate rimward? Same to some extent with the Solomani, except for the grudge match with the 3I.

"Here there be Dragons!"

...at least in MTU :devil:

 

[AndreaV]

"Here there be Dragons!"

...at least in MTU :devil:

Aslan: well its eaier to take land with preexisting infrastructure than to establish colonies. Plus it appeals to Aslan male's nature to conquer.

Solomani: IMTU they are trying, but there's a "crust" of minor states blocking them.

 

[Peter Newman]

Another thought I have had is why the Aslan go Coreward when there is all that real-estate rimward? Same to some extent with the Solomani, except for the grudge match with the 3I.

For Aslan who start in the coreward part of the Hierate just getting rimward will require crossing the Hierate.

The Hierate that is full of other Aslan.

The Aslan who want to hang on to their land.

The Aslan who who know just how badly the Ihetai want land.

Do you really think Aslan are going to let other Aslan "pass through" that easily?

 

[HRLMT]

MT Errors

Unfortunately, MT was plagued with errors. But Errata is very common in the gaming industry. After all, the products a made my us flawed humand, not "perfect" machines.
On this website you can search for and find the MT Errata. And for you Murph, If you think MT was hard to design starships on, try designing one using the TNE system. This design systen totally upset the realism vs. playability balance. The scale were tipped entirely to the side of realism.
I tried being a ref for TNE, it is not a very playable RPG. MT, with all its flaws balanaces realism vs. playability much better. I know this for a fact, I ran many scenarios that were enjoyed by my players. It also helper that I was I freelance writer / designer for DGP.
That is all.
Howard Leidner

 

[robject]

You can't? I thought T4 was in the same ballpark as CT and MT. QSDS1.5 is IMO the best ship design system before or since (though that doesn't mean I think it was perfect).

Technically, I agree that QSDS is a good unifying upgrade for High Guard, MT ship design, and TNE ship design. And, perhaps even for Mongoose.

I suggest that it lacks polish. I believe it needs some simplifying assumptions, for example with regard to volumes, prices, and how Range is handled. Finally, I believe that hardpoints need to be included.

Can someone resurrect one of the "Clean up MegaTraveller" or "MegaTraveller 2.0" threads?

 

[DonM]

Technically, I agree that QSDS is a good unifying upgrade for High Guard, MT ship design, and TNE ship design. And, perhaps even for Mongoose.

I suggest that it lacks polish. I believe it needs some simplifying assumptions, for example with regard to volumes, prices, and how Range is handled. Finally, I believe that hardpoints need to be included.

Can someone resurrect one of the "Clean up MegaTraveller" or "MegaTraveller 2.0" threads?

As an avid HG user, I would completely disagree with your statement about QSDS, MT and TNE. Ugh.

 

[aramis]

Technically, I agree that QSDS is a good unifying upgrade for High Guard, MT ship design, and TNE ship design. And, perhaps even for Mongoose.

It's got details in the wrong places. It's equally as bad as, if not worse than, MT ship design.

I may love MT as a whole, but the ship design was not it's shining spot.

And QSDS is just as bad, if not worse. It's a major downgrade.

 

[Hyphen]

I may love MT as a whole, but the ship design was not it's shining spot.

Agreed. The intent was admirable - merge Book 2, HG and Striker into a single, unified system. I liked having the components, especially the electronics, spelled out in more detail. I liked being able to give players more jobs in a space battle. I liked how they had to scan for stuff rather than me faking something up.

The problem was in the execution, not the intent. The descriptive area of the rules was not well laid out. The tables were OK, but didn't always match the descriptive text, so you had to guess what they meant. I could only make sense of some things because I had all the earlier books. You needed a spreadsheet, rather than a calculator. Hit points were only half done. And there was no worked example.

The errata also didn't help (although I've long ago forgiven them for thst!). Considering that they had to re-type everything - the earlier books were typed directly into the printing machines, and there was no way to retrieve the text - as well as create new rules AND THEN lay everything out in a new format, they did pretty good. (My understanding of QSDS is that many people around they world contributed to reviewing its quality - a luxury not available in pre-ubiquitous-'Net 1985.)

I still love it, though. Once you apply the errsta, and add in the explanations, enhancements and examples from Challenge, the Digest, and the MT Journal, its still the system I have the most fun with. And I guess that's the aim, right?

 

[DonM]

I still love it, though. Once you apply the errsta, and add in the explanations, enhancements and examples from Challenge, the Digest, and the MT Journal, its still the system I have the most fun with. And I guess that's the aim, right?

Complete agreement. I can use the task notes in the existing MT starship combat system to modify HG2, and that works for me. Given my gaming groups' tendencies, I try to avoid them as the crew of whatever starship they may be on, unless the emergency is already in progress. So that flaw doesn't come up too much.

But... it's just my Traveller edition. I cannot explain why I won't let go of MegaTraveller.

Of course, I still play BECMI D&D, so maybe I just like the games systems I played in college (85-89) the best.

 

[aramis]

Complete agreement. I can use the task notes in the existing MT starship combat system to modify HG2, and that works for me. Given my gaming groups' tendencies, I try to avoid them as the crew of whatever starship they may be on, unless the emergency is already in progress. So that flaw doesn't come up too much.

But... it's just my Traveller edition. I cannot explain why I won't let go of MegaTraveller.

Of course, I still play BECMI D&D, so maybe I just like the games systems I played in college (85-89) the best.

I started with Moldvay/Cook BX D&D, and AD&D 1E, then a very brief stint in Star Frontiers, and on to Traveller... then FASA-Trek, WEG SW d6, TFT, and MT, with explorations of T2K 1E, T2300, RQ3, ElfQuest, Spacemaster, Rolemaser, Robotech, TMNT, MERP... and then after graduation from HS, MT, WFRP 1E, TNE, Shadowrun, T&T, and Hero System...

The games I keep going back to: MT, 2300, WEG SW, and T&T. But I've been tweaking MGT instead, lately, and haven't run D&D in years.

Still, I'd really like an errata-free edition of MT... even if it was devoid of the OTU.

 

[kafka47]

I started with Moldvay/Cook BX D&D, and AD&D 1E, then a very brief stint in Star Frontiers, and on to Traveller... then FASA-Trek, WEG SW d6, TFT, and MT, with explorations of T2K 1E, T2300, RQ3, ElfQuest, Spacemaster, Rolemaser, Robotech, TMNT, MERP... and then after graduation from HS, MT, WFRP 1E, TNE, Shadowrun, T&T, and Hero System...

The games I keep going back to: MT, 2300, WEG SW, and T&T. But I've been tweaking MGT instead, lately, and haven't run D&D in years.

Still, I'd really like an errata-free edition of MT... even if it was devoid of the OTU.

MT, 2300, WEG SW, and T&T. But I've been tweaking MGT instead, lately, and haven't run D&D in years.

My god, are you my twin brother????....ok, I never got into T&T until 3 yrs ago. But your path parallels mine, save I went to BRP and Call of the Cthulhu when you you went to T&T and Hero (although, I did go through a short Champions phase when I played it like Austin Powers vs the Supervillianess canon).

There is just something about MT that keeps pulling me back. For me, it was the simplicity of the task system combined with logical (although not easy & needing modification) personal combat rules & the whole streamlined approach...CT just had the rules spread out over too many books.

I like parts of MgT that duplicate MT and make it easier. So, certainly, I would love to see an Old School strip/rip of MT. But, I do also like the Rebellion and Hard Times, so if the background could be some sort of pan-galactic dust-up with decay and decline incorporating things from Challenge like the Ships of the Black War and Wet Navy rules. I think such a product would sell very well to the Old School crowd. Especially, if you got good illustrations to sell it - for that look a Thousand Suns - perfect illustrations for Imperial SF now, I would just make it darker (consistent with my desire for HT to be incorporated in).

Even if this was released as a POD, I would buy it. I think, if MgT goes this route or contemplates it, then they would have also a winner. But, as it stands now, some of their 3I is brilliant (even Aslan is not so bad - let's be honest) but the supplements that have the 3I stuck on with ticky-tacky tape need serious revision. And, Mongoosifed MT might be just the ticket or Traveller's doom.

 

[zonk]

not really a Grognard but...

(consistent with my desire for HT to be incorporated in).

I can usually follow the dialog, dig it?

But HT? Probalby just dumber than normal but I don't remember it and can't figure it out even from the context. o:

 

[Hyphen]

I'm guessing he meant "Hard Times", the campaign supplement he mentioned a few sentences earlier.

(Unless he means "Hero Traveller"; wasn't someone working on a conversion? <g, d & r>)

 

[kafka47]

I'm guessing he meant "Hard Times", the campaign supplement he mentioned a few sentences earlier.

(Unless he means "Hero Traveller"; wasn't someone working on a conversion? <g, d & r>)

Yes, I did mean, Hard Times, as yes, you get this wonderful Rebellion but no real effects until you get the Hard Times supplement. The Rebellion supplement should have done that...but did not.

 

[Murph]

As much as I despise the MT/Hard Times/TNE universe, I must admit the DGP stuff was first rate, almost as good as the Keith brothers stuff from CT. The magazines were even better than the Journal though.

 

[Murph]

On sober reflection, I think that it was not so much the added complexity of the system that angered me, as the total death of the setting. I think that GDW should have allowed much more adventuring in the frontier areas such as Reavers Deep, Trojan Reach, Gateway, and such sectors as those. They should have encouraged adventuring on the frontiers of known space. Rimward of the Solomani, coreward of the Vargr Extents, etc.

Plus the silly (and there is no other way to describe it) Empress Wave, the Black circle, the Vampire Fleets, etc. were ways to revitalize what had become a stagnant setting for many. Ok, so rather than have the "Hand of God" strike it down, there were lots of areas on the maps where the spirit of adventure was alive and well.

GDW should have capitalized on the old FASA, JUDGES GUILD, PARANOIA PRESS, and GAMELORDS material, and made them more canonical, and part of the setting. Move the adventures out of the 3I area, into unknown space.

Although looking back at the old books, vehicle design really did suck. Chargen was much improved compared to the LBB (IMHO). The weakness of Traveller has always been its combat system compared to other systems. Striker made a valiant attempt to improve it, but, it just never was really very good.