Originally posted by Sgt Biggles:
Garf,
I find your views about Canadian and American relations interesting as I have never really discussed it before.
That's okay we're used to being taken for granted. ;] -- Seriously though. I'm not surprised at times our 'relationship' seems onesided. We cannot help but be aware of you (as nations) but it's also VERY obvious to us that the a reciprocral awareness/understanding does not apply. It's okay we understand you're much larger and more of a mover and shaker. But -right there- you find part of the ... Ambivalence... the the Canadian collective psyche when it comes to our loud and visible neighbour and close friend.
Question: Initially in the Twilight war America deploys troops to regain assets seized due to an embargo by the UN. The conflict escalates by events centered around China and additional troops are deployed around the globe.
Would Canada openly support the US by supplying troops to recover US assets overseas? My thought would be they might condemn the sanctions placed by the UN, but would not become involved unless Canadian assets were threatened. (When I refer to ‘assets’ I refer to a vague set of property important to the national defense of the US) With hostilities heating up around the globe it can be presumed that North American security becomes an issue at which point Canada would be more likely to send in the troops. How am I doing so far?
Well. Canada has strong ties to the UN. One of our former Prime Ministers earned the Nobel Peace Prize for proposing the deployment of 'peacekeepers' back in the 50's. It was Canadian Troops who kept Turk and Greek Cypriots from getting it on for decades. It was Canadians wearing the powder blue Berets who were booted out of the Mid-east by Nassar during the '67 Arab-Israeli War. Other Canadian have had influential roles in framing such documents as the UN bill of human rights. The exact nature of this dispute between the UN/US would have to be clarified and intensified to the point were Canada had to pick sides.
But you are right. The first reaction. (if our current 'bleah' leadership is any example) would be to try to have it both ways.
Remember that Canada also has strong ties to the US. There were Canadian officers Manning the boards at Norad on 9/11. Canada shut it's nation down for several days to park all those planes denied entry into US airspace. Without prompting by the Gov't private citizens opened their homes and flooded aid agencies, to billet stranded americans and offer their help. Canadian SAR techs (often racing accross the border in POVs) were the first Foriegn Nationals at Ground Zero helping with the rescue/cleanup. This was not done for thanks or becuase our leader's thought it was good diplomacy. it was the knee jerk reaction of many Canadians. Inculuding myself (I was frustrated: No stranded americans in my isolated town, Red Cross didn't want my Thyroid Medication tainted blood. I settled for buying a flag only because it was ALL I could do.)
Some of this goodwill was... squandered by your current president not long afterwords. but thats not really germaine to the topic.
Canadian Troops were on the ground and took casualties in Afghanistan.
NORAD is under discusion into an 'all branches' (not just Aerospace) Alliance.
I think you can rest assured. that UNLESS your scenario specifically states that the US has gone out of it's way to drive it's neigbhour into a different alliance that Canada and the US will be linked at the hip until they cease to be nations.
With the WWW3 in full bloom, WMDs are exchanged and the world suffers a devastating nuclear winter. Prior to the exchange the political climate between Canada and the US stays strong, even Mexico and perhaps some South American countries have joined together for mutual aid and support. In a very short time frame the governments of North America are destroyed and the provinces and states begin to deteriorate due to starvation, riots and disease. By the end of the first nuclear winter local governments start popping up. Bush wars to determine territory rights begin. The American government is divided between a military government and a civilian government with neither having the ability to hold together a nation. Mexico decides to reclaim some of her old lands (Though it would be a tough fight, sorry Texans and other south western readers, but it is part of the original history and is still be held at this time).
What is happening in Canada? My guess would be pretty similar to the US as far as local governments popping up. Would the Provincial governments (Is there such a thing?) attempt to reestablish control?
yes, just like your State Legislatures are DC in miniature so do our provinces have their own Provincial Legislatures that are Parliament in miniature. The Provinces DON'T have copies of our moribund senate. But do have Lt. Governors in paralell with our Governor General. Toronto is the Capital of Ontario, Winnipeg rules Manitoba etc. We also have Vast Territories which are under direct federal rule.
I'm not sure how our breakdown would occur. The federal system is very strong in Canada. Our National police force also holds the contracts for provincial policing in all but about 2 or three of our provinces. And in those provinces the Mounties are likely to provide your local municipal policing as well. additionally they have Coast Guard type vessels, Aircraft and until the 1970's were also our CounterSpy organisation. heck they are even one of our best internationally known symbols. (Heh. how's that for a Democracy, uses a COP as a trademark?)
The Federal/Provincial split(s) could be interesting. If Ottawa loses ENOUGH power I don't see it holding sway even in it's home Province (Ontario.) I'm going to have to think and chew on this and get back to you.
Would there be a split between the national civilian and military governments? Between the provincial and national government? Perhaps between the military and everyone else? Does Canada have rules governing martial law during times of crisis?
I'm sure it does, But to my shame I don't recall them. Maybe Paul Nemeth can clarify. Paul?
Two things you have to remember about Canada's military:
1) Is it's VERY small, Top heavy with officer, and hasn't had a PENNY spent on it by successive federal Governments since the 1960's that wasn't armtwisted beyond belief. The fact that our Helicopters are currently falling out of the sky wasn't enough to keep the current Gov't from canceling a contract so near completion that they paid nearly as much for NOT getting the new EH's
as they would have for buying them.
2)Even in the military the Canadian... historical psyche as developed a different ideas about the use of violence and the application of force.
we DID not develop a frontier myth that said "You got a problem. Shoot it!" We WEREN't Concieved in a revolution and Born in a civil war.
OUR rebellions all failed militarily but arguebly won the peace. Our military adventures were all military successes but the peace deals that resulted were less rewarding. Our best known homegrown terrorists, the FLQ, were quickly marginalised in the 70's by the very people they claimed to be blowing up mail boxes in defence of.
This has little to do with the Europe war but I think it will be important to have at least a basic concept of what the undercurrents in North and South America could be.
I'm not sure the Reg Force would be divided against the Civil Federal Gov't.
I could see regional schisms expecially among the reserve regiments which are all locally raised and have healthy rivalries. Without orders and isolated from their commands I suspect the Regular force would also join the regional polities. but... it would depend on So many details.
But grand picture. the Canadian Schisms would be Regional not military/Civil. IMO
Whew…..I’m done.
Sorry another thought. How does France fit into the Canadian equation? Does the French government hold sway over any areas? If so, could those elements affect Canadian and US relations?