What do we like about traveller!!!

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Regardless, you're still playing ordinary joes, and that just isn't that attractive a concept in the RPG community. Otherwise, you'd get people falling over themselves to play hapless peasants in D&D instead of fighters and clerics and wizards, right?

I think the trick is to present the "ordinary joe" angle as something that is actually quite cool.

It seems like they can be complementary though. In Traveller you can play the laid-off dockworker and in D&D3E you can play the 12th level Shadowdancer. Both are valid amusements, neither one cancels each other out. Of course, this is obvious to me as I type it, but perhaps not obvious to the RPG community at large in 2004.

When I think of Traveller, I think of the first two Alien movies. Alien really is about a bunch of shmucks in space doing some tragically ordinary job ... except, that's not quite how the rest of the movie turns out. There are few fancy weapons - I think they throw pipes at the alien at some point;combat is quick, neat, and less than heroic; and thinking fellers live to see the end. (Well, one of them anyway.) The fun is in how the scenario is set up, not how powerful the characters are.

Then there's the second film. Aliens is to Alien what Chamax Plague is to Death Station. Some tension, some suspense, then all out mayhem. Larger than life action sequences, outrageous gun battles, overwhelming odds, explodey bits everywhere.

Of course, Traveller doesn't have a monopoly here - you can really do both kinds of games with D&D3E, I just think the deck is stacked against you. (I'm just picking D&D3E here as the default "other" game, it could really be anything.)

Originally posted by Malenfant:
...Traditionally, games with very complex backgrounds aren't that popular, largely because people don't know where to start explaining them to their players (c.f. Skyrealms of Jorune, Tekumel, Runequest, Transhuman Space...)

Wow, Malenfant makes an excellent point that signless continues:

Originally posted by signless:
[They made the OTU] so vast ..., and then deciding to canonize the game so much it couldn't keep up with the times was simply ridiculous.

It does seem that in some ways the OTU has a market-perception problem stemming from the fact that its well-established version of the far future seems at odds with current tastes. This has been pointed out elsewhere but the above quotes made it all gel for me.

It's kind of difficult to say which is better: the game you can jump in and play, or the game that you can start and perhaps never finish. But I love that Traveller is more the latter.

 

[aramis]

Yes, there is the opportunity to "Opera Up" Traveller...

How many people see Daryen as "elves in space", and/or the Zhodani Taverchedzle as Pre-lightsaber Jedi? More than I care to think about... Heretics one and all... but it is easily doable.

Heck, one person I know described lightsabers as "A TL17 Tractro and Repulsor array, which cycles microfine dimond dust out the center and back in the outside cylinder of the blade, roviding a cutting edge which is incredibly powerful, and liikewise light and effectively capable of cutting almost anything with a fairly negligible weight weapon." He also limited it to 5m on a charge, and 10 min of cut on a dust-pack... assuming 1 second of cut per melee round. He claimed the glow was the tractor beam. I'd say it probably uses a gauss launcher and tractor collector, and iron-in-the-carbon-lattice dust.

Traveller rules have always supported multiple play styles each... just that each supports the various ones with different strong suites.

But for me, despite being a player started on CT, Traveller really is the OTU, nto the rules. (Even tho I love the MT rules.)

 

[robject]

I find myself agreeing with some of the core points of this thread:

1. Traveller is about owning your own piece of interstellar adventure, whether it's a joe piloting his own Free Trader, or the cyborg leader of a mercenary fleet.

2. Traveller is a system by which you can consistently define your game universe; likewise, the OTU is still flexible enough to be able to describe it in terms of all the sci-fi clones of the Republic-Empire of Rome: the Old Republic of Star Wars, the Alliance of Firefly, Central Control, etc. While they aren't perfect fits, they give enough of the picture to set the stage -- and that's usually all that's needed.

In fact, Star Wars is very useful for me for stage-setting, simply because it shows a cosmopolitan empire with a large variation in available tech. And it has that unique feeling of aged high tech that I like.

 

[Malenfant]

(Since someone mentioned them here...) I think actually one of the problems with Traveller were the CT adventures. I'm don't recall whether they were actually presented this way or not, but they seemed to give the impression of "this is how the default setting is" rather than "this is just a random adventure you can dump into your own background). Indeed, people use them to define OTU canon - "you can't put those on that planet, because Adventure X says it's really like this".

Maybe if that hadn't been the case, and if they were presented as just random things you could put into any sf game, then things might have turned out very differently and there wouldn't be this conflicting canon. Or maybe it was more down to people interpreting them as being how things SHOULD be in your setting, rather than just as suggestions for something that could happen?

 

[flykiller]

I think actually one of the problems with Traveller were the CT adventures.

there's more to like about traveller than continuous flogging of CT.

 

[Malenfant]

flykiller - do you HAVE to be so damn snarky at me whenever I say something negative about CT? I'm not flogging CT for the sake of it or because I like doing it, you know - while there were good points about it (and I'll admit that), there were also bad points. If you want to think the game is perfect, fine - but don't snipe at people who don't think it is.

As it is, the only reason I mentioned this here is that someone mentioned the adventures earlier on this thread.

 

[jchurchill]

So many people seem to be upset with some aspect of the OTU or the screwing of that OTU in one of the many rules sets of traveller [CT, MT, into the toliet TNE]. I guess I was lucky in some ways in that my first exposure to Traveller was the original 3 LBB as a teeenager in 1978. That was all we had. We created our own planets and built everything from the ground up. [of course as teenagers we had more time and less reponsibility than we ever knew we would have again.] Then the Spinward Marches Supplement and Mercenary/High Guard came along. That was pretty heady stuff.

I was out of gaming before MT hit and it was only in the last few years that I even looked at old used copies of MT and more recently the TNE source book. I can see how those who joined the party with MT and the carefully spelled out universe would have been upset when TNE came along but then why convert to TNE? Why not just run your MT game into the future?

What I have always liked about traveller is that it gave you a basis to run any sort of game you wanted. Like most people I stumbled into D&D first from wargames and miniatures. A friend brought back a copy of the original D&D --I still have those books -- they were the only ones I ever used -- and said look at this freaky little game.

Traveller to me was superior because you were given the mechanics to create almost anything [the havoc that was caused when we got our hands on the very first Stryker set]. You could run a game based on John Carter, Warlord of Mars, Alien, the Roman Empire in Space, etc etc.

That's what I really liked about traveller. In the very beginning there was no OTU and therefore more surprises.

 

[jchurchill]

but they seemed to give the impression of "this is how the default setting is" rather than "this is just a random adventure you can dump into your own background). Indeed, people use them to define OTU canon - "you can't put those on that planet, because Adventure X says it's really like this".

Maybe if that hadn't been the case, and if they were presented as just random things you could put into any sf game, then things might have turned out very differently and there wouldn't be this conflicting canon. Or maybe it was more down to people interpreting them as being how things SHOULD be in your setting, rather than just as suggestions for something that could happen?

==================================================
That is pretty much how I treated them. In fact, I tended to buy the CT supplements and stopped buying the adventures after # 5 TCS -- which was really "Pocket Empires" of its day. Only later when I bought the FFE reprints did I see how CT eventually "jumped the shark" with Adventure 12 or 13 or whatever -- "Meet the Ancients" --Ben Stiller plays us and Robert De Niro plays Grandfather.

Well once you discover the secret of the Universe, what is left? Jump a new shark called MT. Gigantic civil war. How do you conclude that? Destroy everything and introduce a new rules set with new source books. [cha-ching.]

ah well.

 

[flykiller]

I'm not flogging CT for the sake of it or because I like doing it, you know

I do? this is the "what do we like about traveller!!" thread, and here you are segueing into flogging CT again. this is the "what do we like about traveller!!!" thread, not the "what do we like to flog about CT!!!" thread. how 'bout you give it a rest.

 

[Malenfant]

How about you read my post in the context it was written in instead of jumping down my throat every time I say something, huh? I'm not threadcrapping here, my response was just relevant to the subject I was commenting on. It was a comment, not a "flogging" - I wasn't even particularly slagging anything off.

But whatever. Excuse me for breathing .

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'm not flogging CT for the sake of it or because I like doing it, you know

I do? this is the "what do we like about traveller!!" thread, and here you are segueing into flogging CT again. this is the "what do we like about traveller!!!" thread, not the "what do we like to flog about CT!!!" thread. how 'bout you give it a rest. </font>[/QUOTE]Reading his past couple of posts, I have to disagree. He wasn't really flogging on CT he was commenting on how the adventures were presented, and frankly he has a valid point.

Lets get back to the subject and avoid the inhouse fighting please.


Hunter

 

[flykiller]

Lets get back to the subject and avoid the inhouse fighting please.

very well sir.

what do I like about playing traveller. the looks on the player's faces when I manage to make them envision something they hadn't expected, and the slight pause as they reorient. when an NPC meshes with the crew. when a player attempts something difficult and rolls a twelve. when I set up a complicated situation and the players see something I didn't and just waltz right through it. when a player drives his character forward regardless of consequences, because that's what the character would do. when the players get out a ruler and check a line of sight on a deckplan I've drawn.

and the quotes.

human male pc, planning a ruse, taking the female vargr by the arm: "taurhikha and I will be husband and wife. that will be our cover story." ref, long pause: "one wonders just how much it will cover."

and the story.

a dozen police lined up outside the airlock entry to the PC's ship, ordering entry. a PC walks up to the end of the line and asks the last cop, "hey, what's going on?" ref rolls a twelve, the cop doesn't turn around. cop: "we're here to arrest the crew, all these guys [holds up pictures]. you might want to stay away for a while." PC: "OK, thanks." walks away.

and when an aslan tries to smile like a human.

 

[aramis]

Malenfant:

The lens is actually mentioned in an offhand way...

Lensmen are, in fact, easy to make in Traveller... just not as powerful as the unattached lensmen. PSR12+, using a lens to boost available Psi points to PSR^2 (and probably also PSR). Change the tables to
Telepathy 2+
Teleport 12+
Telekinesis 11+
Clairavoyance 5+
Awareness 7+
Special 10+

Galactic Patrol adds Psi to the PDT of the marines for Lensmen (under the mental, in MT) and Psionic skills to the Professional table somewhere.

Lensman, due to the fairly "Normal" nature of lensmen, aside from the lens and the psi, is easily doable. Yeah, sure, the allotropic iron drives are probably TL18+...

And there have been specials of various types detailed out for CT and MT; TNE can borrow Dark Conspiracy, and T4 Psionics just plain rock.

Oh, and Kimbal Kinneson, Unattached Lensman, is in Sup 1...

Vader is in Sup 4.

It's just the flying arouns throwing "Energy Beams" by mental force that Traveller doesn't do...

 

[Malenfant]

what do I like about playing traveller. the looks on the player's faces when I manage to make them envision something they hadn't expected, and the slight pause as they reorient. when an NPC meshes with the crew. when a player attempts something difficult and rolls a twelve. when I set up a complicated situation and the players see something I didn't and just waltz right through it. when a player drives his character forward regardless of consequences, because that's what the character would do. when the players get out a ruler and check a line of sight on a deckplan I've drawn.

flykiller - out of curiosity, do you or have you actually run any game other than Traveller? Because this paragraph sounds like the sort of thing that a GM would say they like about any game that they enjoy running.

 

[mike wightman]

Mal, most of the early adventures had a note that the Imperium is the default setting but that the adventure can be modified to fit into the referee's TU - not much guidance on how to do it though.
It wasn't too great a task in the early days to fit the worlds the adventures took place on into anybodies TU
All of the short adventures could easily fit in anywhere, some of the long adventures require a bit more work (I used Research Station Gamma and Twilight's Peak in T2300 )
I never ran a game in the Solomani Rim, but I used the adventures located there in the Spinward Marches with little problem.
76 Patrons was completely generic from the get go.

And making adventures part of the official world is not unique to CT.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Here, Here!

Actually it still isn't too great a task to move most of the CT adventures to Gateway. (Though you might want a different protaganist than the Zhodani and the Swordworlders.) Or using the basic premise of an adventure and changing it so that it is your own. Take, for example Adventure 4, Leviathan. You can run the same sort of adventure, easily, in Gateway. Matter of fact, given the climate in the Gateway Domain there is more incentive to do so.

Adventure 7, Broadsword. Nothing stopping you from running the same adventure in Gateway either. YOu just won't have Sword World Mech BN to face, But you could face a TL10 Merc Bn. THe Boarding action Scenario didn't work in Garda Villis anyway as the Broadsword isn't streamlined so can't be grounded and Teleportation to an orbiting Spacecraft doesn't work well.

Besides how do you get a 2000 ton "Cruiser" with only Jump 1 capability to Garda Villis from the Zhodane Consulate anyway?

The only Adventure I can see real problems with moving are the last couple. Secret of the Ancients pretty much requires the Spinward Marches and Signal GK pretty much requires the Solomani Rim. (Just because they are very astrographic specific. )

As an example. Twilight's Peak can be run in the Gateway sector, just outside the Imperium border and have it be Solomani instead of Zhodani and to really throw a Monkey in the works make the epic from shortly before the Long Night.

Now some people will complain that using the adventures this way means the planets don't match. So put the adventure on a planet that does match. Move the adventure not the planet. Besides if all you use is the preprinted adventures, unmodified, then there is nothing stopping your players from getting copies.

To be a good GM requires imagination, storytelling ability and work. In return you get players that want to play. You get to surprise them and, more often than the players you get to blow shit up.

Traveller lets the GM be the GM. OTU or not, you as a GM are still limited only by your imagination. Now that may be true of other games. But Traveller gives you the tools to do the job right. Traveller has one thing you rarely see in other games, adventure seeds without entire adventures. 76 Patrons for example. The neatest thing is you can take 76 Patrons to virtually any RPG and use it.

Oh and just to throw a monkey in the works about other games. There is little stopping you in D&D from running a Merchant Campaign if that is what you want to do. Or even forming a Mercenary Unit and building a reputation and selling your services to the highest bidder.

Or with T20, if you really want to frag with someone's mind, there is nothing stopping you from defining Magic as Psionics and having the Forgotten Realms as a backwater planet in Gateway Domain or the Spinward Marches. (And either stranding your players on the planet or having your D&D players encounter an Air/Raft from a Scout Ship.)

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Mal, most of the early adventures had a note that the Imperium is the default setting but that the adventure can be modified to fit into the referee's TU - not much guidance on how to do it though.
It wasn't too great a task in the early days to fit the worlds the adventures took place on into anybodies TU
All of the short adventures could easily fit in anywhere, some of the long adventures require a bit more work (I used Research Station Gamma and Twilight's Peak in T2300 )
I never ran a game in the Solomani Rim, but I used the adventures located there in the Spinward Marches with little problem.
76 Patrons was completely generic from the get go.

And making adventures part of the official world is not unique to CT.

 

[jchurchill]

Traveller lets the GM be the GM. OTU or not, you as a GM are still limited only by your imagination. Now that may be true of other games. But Traveller gives you the tools to do the job right. Traveller has one thing you rarely see in other games, adventure seeds without entire adventures. 76 Patrons for example. The neatest thing is you can take 76 Patrons to virtually any RPG and use it.
===============================================
I agree. One of the greatest strengths of Traveller...esp. CT.

 

[siefertma2]

Thousands of Worlds, each with their own culture and govenrment.

Everyday joes on a far trader trying to get make a few creds anyway they can.

No politically correct, pajamma-clad star trekkers who wax about "understanding other cultures" while at the same time browbeating those "war-like" Romulans and "greedy" Ferengi.

No moral absolutist, psionic space knights weilding lightsabers.

A conventional firearm is more practical and just as deadly as any laser pistol.

The assumption that there are some laws of physics.

Imperial Marines in battledress armed with guass rifles and FGMP-15s, Intrepid Grav Tanks, and Tigress Class Dreadnaughts and Class M meson spinal mounts.

 

[jchurchill]

I also like the fact that there are no experience levels and that hitpoints don't increase so that one is invincible to a hail of bullets thereby encouraging "silly heroics."

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually T20 has experience levels but your hit points don't increase so you still go down to a hail of bullets. In MTU Silly heroics are still allowed and encouraged, just less survivable. But when you do survive them you aren't buying the beer.

By the way would, calling in Artillery on your own position, getting shot, climbing onto a burning tank to fire a machinegun and clearing the field of the enemy, getting off the burning tank and stepping away from it as it explodes be considered silly heroics?

(See the movie, "To Hell and Back")

Originally posted by secretagent:
I also like the fact that there are no experience levels and that hitpoints don't increase so that one is invincible to a hail of bullets thereby encouraging "silly heroics."