What do you use for visual aids and minis?

[GypsyComet]

I can't speak for Infojunky, but in my case it was the gigantic scale. A Scout ship eats up a large table.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Here's another you might want to look at. It's for space stations.

http://www.pworkwargames.com/en/20-space-tiles

 

[Blue Ghost]

I can't speak for Infojunky, but in my case it was the gigantic scale. A Scout ship eats up a large table.

My deckplan memory is a little hazy, but weren't the FASA deckplans only marginally smaller than the Steve Jackson deckplans?

I tried to run a session back in 2007 or 2008, and even with a fairly sizeable table the SJ deckplans of a Marava did take up quite a bit of space....I don't have mine in front of me, but isn't one side GURPS hexes and the other side standard 1.5 meter squares?

 

[GypsyComet]

My deckplan memory is a little hazy, but weren't the FASA deckplans only marginally smaller than the Steve Jackson deckplans?

I tried to run a session back in 2007 or 2008, and even with a fairly sizeable table the SJ deckplans of a Marava did take up quite a bit of space....I don't have mine in front of me, but isn't one side GURPS hexes and the other side standard 1.5 meter squares?

They did put hexes on one side and square grid on the other, yes. That was one of the deciding factors in my purchase of them. Hexes don't interest me for Traveller.

The difference is that the SJG plans used 1.5" squares for the 1.5m square grid, while FASA and Judges Guild used 0.5" squares. FASA was fitting entire ships up to 800 dtons on a single 17"x22" sheet. SJG needed six sheets that size *per deck* of the Marava.

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's right. The Snapshot, AHL and FASA ships were scaled differently. And just thinking more here, I guess that's why the Traveller minis that came out back then looked like crap.

Wishlist;
More SJ Deckplans, though scaled down deckplans would be welcome
A secure PDF file of those Deckplans that I can take to OfficeMax, Kinko's or some Xerox place with a plotter that can pump out both scales that John and I are talking here.
Excellent, detailed, miniatures.

 

[GypsyComet]

That's right. The Snapshot, AHL and FASA ships were scaled differently. And just thinking more here, I guess that's why the Traveller minis that came out back then looked like crap.

The Martian Metals minis were poor and primitive because they didn't really get the hang of green stuff until right before they went out of business. The RAFM/Citadel 15mm Traveller line was par for the course in the early 80s unless you were Tom Meier of Ral Partha.

 

[DickNervous]

That's right. The Snapshot, AHL and FASA ships were scaled differently. And just thinking more here, I guess that's why the Traveller minis that came out back then looked like crap.

Wishlist;
More SJ Deckplans, though scaled down deckplans would be welcome
A secure PDF file of those Deckplans that I can take to OfficeMax, Kinko's or some Xerox place with a plotter that can pump out both scales that John and I are talking here.
Excellent, detailed, miniatures.

I don't think I have seen the SJ deckplans, but that sounds like a good idea!

For those that have made their own deck plans, what do you use to make them? Photoshop? And where do you get all the items?

 

[Blue Ghost]

The Martian Metals minis were poor and primitive because they didn't really get the hang of green stuff until right before they went out of business. The RAFM/Citadel 15mm Traveller line was par for the course in the early 80s unless you were Tom Meier of Ral Partha.

I remember circa 82 or 83 my friend and I were at the local gamestore and saw the RAFM line, and I wasn't too impressed. Checking out their current line;

http://www.rafm.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=GRAV

They're not bad as such, but not what I would call exceptional. How often do gaming sessions take place on multiple decks? The thrust here being how more advantageous are the smaller scale maps the larger for visual aids (minis).

 

[GypsyComet]

I remember circa 82 or 83 my friend and I were at the local gamestore and saw the RAFM line, and I wasn't too impressed. Checking out their current line, they're not bad as such, but not what I would call exceptional.

Except for the Insolani, those are exactly the same sculpts.

How often do gaming sessions take place on multiple decks? The thrust here being how more advantageous are the smaller scale maps the larger for visual aids (minis).

That depends on the size of the decks. AHL's included scenarios are all on one or two decks, and AHL's rules would take forever for a larger fight. For the small ships you get RPG-relevant boarding actions, hijackings, or Awful Things From Outer Space scenarios that provide plenty of reasons to show the whole ship. While the Martian Metals line is long gone, RAFM, GZG, Khurasan, and Rebel provide a good mix of PC types plus enough uniform combatants to get your Snapshot on and still know who the models on the table represent.

15mm also allows gun ranges to look a little less silly, lets you put vehicles (GZG, Combat Wombat, 15mm.co.uk, and many others) on the table for ground-side fights, and just generally look more like a modern or SF skirmish than the close and nasty we so commonly expect from fantasy.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Kh's official site is down for maintenance. But here's a screen;



Those are a thousand times better than the minis from way back when, in my opinion. Yet I still think there's room for improvement.

 

[GypsyComet]

Yet I still think there's room for improvement.

Then I suspect 15mm is the wrong scale for you. For reference, those are half the height of a GW Space Marine.

The ultra-greebly style that GW indulges in is lost at arms length even at 32mm, and utterly pointless at 15mm. The "deeper" detail style that GW has also long been a party to is actually a step backwards for 15mm. At this scale details smooth out a lot. Too much clothing fold makes everyone look like they posed during a hurricane...

The problem is that GW ruined a generation of gaming painters for subtle surface work, and the only ones who now practice it are very close to not being gamers, but just painters. There are very few gamers who can do Tom Meier sculpts justice in his preferred scale of 25 to 28mm, so the 15mm characters he has done for Khurasan are simply gorgeous overkill: http://theminiaturespage.com/news/389652/

 

[Patron Zero]

I used to work at Staples as a tech and know all about their printers. Heck, they usually asked me to look at them before calling for service. As long as it didn't need a part I usually was able to get them back up and running.

I had the sector map for the Trojan Reach printed there. They have a "blueprint" printer (B&W) that goes up to 36" wide and a massive HP color printer that I think can handle at least 48" in full color. I think it actually can do wider, but I don't think they have the larger paper. Though neither can do double sided.

This is all awesome stuff guys! Thanks!

Pardon the unintended confusion about 'double-siding' in regards to the laminated blanks, what I meant was I would have two (2) separate single-sided printed sheets sealed as outward-facing.

For anyone who does have need of large-format maps or deckplans printed on more than one occasion, it's worth the investment to buy good quality paperstock from a commercial paper supplier and then have said over-size prints made on such.

Large format paper can be found in reams of pre-cut sheets or on a roll, depending on how much of such material you personally use might determine which works best.

 

[DickNervous]

Pardon the unintended confusion about 'double-siding' in regards to the laminated blanks, what I meant was I would have two (2) separate single-sided printed sheets sealed as outward-facing.

For anyone who does have need of large-format maps or deckplans printed on more than one occasion, it's worth the investment to buy good quality paperstock from a commercial paper supplier and then have said over-size prints made on such.

Large format paper can be found in reams of pre-cut sheets or on a roll, depending on how much of such material you personally use might determine which works best.

Ah, yeah. Didn't think of that, but yes, that would cut down the cost of laminating AND make them much more durable.

 

[infojunky]

What didn't you like about the deckplans?

They were done in Steves default 1/36th scale. i.e. 1 inch equals 1 yard.

Thus you would need a Large Kitchen table for just the Scout Boat without much room left over for the docking bay....

 

[infojunky]

For those that have made their own deck plans, what do you use to make them? Photoshop? And where do you get all the items?

Currently I switch between Campaign Cartographer and Illustrator, but I also have a old school vibe in my head right now so I am hand drawing with aims to scan to pdf. But I have made the investment of time and capital to learn how to use both. If I were to start today I probably would start with Inkscape.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Then I suspect 15mm is the wrong scale for you. For reference, those are half the height of a GW Space Marine.

The ultra-greebly style that GW indulges in is lost at arms length even at 32mm, and utterly pointless at 15mm. The "deeper" detail style that GW has also long been a party to is actually a step backwards for 15mm. At this scale details smooth out a lot. Too much clothing fold makes everyone look like they posed during a hurricane...

The problem is that GW ruined a generation of gaming painters for subtle surface work, and the only ones who now practice it are very close to not being gamers, but just painters. There are very few gamers who can do Tom Meier sculpts justice in his preferred scale of 25 to 28mm, so the 15mm characters he has done for Khurasan are simply gorgeous overkill: http://theminiaturespage.com/news/389652/

I used to paint minis in the late 80s, and was pretty good at it. I don't know, it just seems like the fantasy minis are far better crafted than the sci-fi minis. I'm not sure why.

 

[GypsyComet]

I used to paint minis in the late 80s, and was pretty good at it. I don't know, it just seems like the fantasy minis are far better crafted than the sci-fi minis. I'm not sure why.

It can be difficult to separate aesthetics from skill. Most of the best sculptors do fantasy because it sells consistently at nearly any price.

Tom Meier only seems to do SF on commission (note the TMP link in my last post), but Kev White's SF (Hasslefree) stands up to the skills of anyone in the industry, and the sculptors at Corvus Belli (for Infinity) are also very, very good, anime aesthetics notwithstanding. All of them have worked in 15mm, but only Tom has done so on SF topics. Kev did a bunch of the Demonworld 15mm Fantasy line (currently with Ral Partha Europe) but has no interest in returning to 15mm. Corvus Belli has had an extensive 15mm ancients line, but seems content to stick with 30mm for SF. That said, the various small drones for Infinity are scale-blind.

The sculpting for Reaper's Chronoscape line is often quite good, and there are a number of boutique resin producers who tag onto the Gothic SF thing who are very talented.

GW is a special case, along with the folks who do Firestorm Armada (Spartan Games) and the guy who does Dropzone Commander. Much of their work is no longer hand sculpted. 3D model work with rapid prototyping has taken over, and will continue to grow.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, CAD-CAM was something I was trained in way back in the day. The auto industry helped develop it with IBM and Xerox. You would use a PET computer with a light pen that acted as a stylus or "mouse", and drew the component on an old Hercules monochrome screen.

Well, I was going to draft up a business plan, but I guess someone's already beat me to it. Oh well.

My gut tells me that whoever does the sci-fi minis doesn't appear to use as big a chunk or whatever medium they use to sculpt the fantasy minis. The guns look really bulky, awkward and just overall cartoonish or almost clown like.

Some of it may be style. It seems like because the fantasy minis are more stylized that they can get away with more artistic liberties. A dragon with its wings splayed out, teeth, blazing eyes, tongue, talons and what not, doesn't have to follow the conventions of a rifle needing to look like a rifle.

Just my musings.

 

[infojunky]

My gut tells me that whoever does the sci-fi minis doesn't appear to use as big a chunk or whatever medium they use to sculpt the fantasy minis. The guns look really bulky, awkward and just overall cartoonish or almost clown like.

It's the Nerf Gun effect.....

Or really one of the psychological bits with miniatures especially as of late is to emphasise (Make bigger) the bits that seem important. So faces, hands/arms and weapons. Or what I like to call the 40k effect. Couple that with the fact that Games Workshop with their cartoonish figures have been the industry leader for so long a lot of the smaller manufacturers and artists have wholly adopted their style. One of the reasons I adopted 15mm in the 1st place, while the figures where the prettiest they mostly were not 40k clones. Then couple the fact that 15mm had a linked scale associated with 1/100th. (Note I seriously considered sticking with 25mm on 20mm bases, for use with a ground scale of 3/4s of inch (20mm) being 1.5 meters (i.e. 50 cm to the quarter inch).

 

[Blue Ghost]

All I know is that the swords, shields, staffs and occasional bow looked pretty cool, but the guns for the sci-fi minis looked like someone was monkeying about with Playdoh.