What is contained in a Bridge?

[vegascat]

What is contained in a Bridge?

This is what I use IMTU for bridge design.
Standard bridge tonnage is 20 Dtons minimum or .02 percent of ship tonnage.
Half of the tonnage would be Control room, the rest would be avionics, control thrusters, communication and power lines, landing gear, and basic sensors.
Bridge tonnage is .5% of total tonnage for each type included, Maneuver, Jump, Avionics, Streamlining, Detachable, and Command Bridge. Absolute minimum is Maneuver, Landing gear, Control Thrusters and Avionics. A backup bridge group can be placed adjacent to Engineering at the same size and cost as the prime bridge. A compact bridge is 25% smaller, same cost and cause a 1-point skill check deduction on all bridge skill checks due to its small size.
Landing gear is almost always depicted as flat pads. If those pads are actually strong gravatic plates with the capability to maintain a 6-inch gap, it would act as wheels allowing frictionless movement across most surfaces. The plates would not be useful for water landings.

The Control room area would contain most manned areas
control thrusters, Powered, .005% Tonnage, mandatory
communication, Powered, Manned in Control room
power lines, Powered, in conduits with all other plumbing.
landing gear, Powered, .005% Tonnage, mandatory
basic sensors, Powered, Manned in Control room, mandatory
Maneuver Bridge, Powered, Manned in Control room, .005% Tonnage, mandatory
Jump Bridge, Powered, Manned in Control room, .005% Tonnage, mandatory for jump drives
Avionics, Powered,
Streamlining, .05% Tonnage
Detachable Bridge, Powered, Manned separate Control room, 50% larger than regular bridge
Command Bridge, Powered, Manned separate Control room, 80 Dtons, +1 DM Tactics
Backup bridge, Powered, Manned in Control room, same size as primary bridge
Compact bridge, -25% of standard bridge for than size ship. -1DM all bridge skills

 

[BackworldTraveller]

It also includes

• Computers including secure programming console
• 1 ton of Airlock per 100 dTons
• Ships Locker
• Sensor Aerials for Basic Navigation Sensors
• Identification Transponder
• Navigation Lights
• External Cameras
• Ports for Ground Power, Fresh Water, Sewerage and Sullage pump-out, Data Cables
• Ships Safe
• Coffee Pot (or equivalent)

 

[Condottiere]

Microwave (oven).


All kidding aside, depends on edition, since the default bridge is capped at sixty tonnes in Mongoose, and if an astrogation station is required on a starship, is it required on a non starship?

 

[whartung]

It also includes

• Computers including secure programming console
• Coffee Pot (or equivalent)

Microwave (oven).

And the grav/inertia compensated cup holders.

 

[Condottiere]

Heated, in case the cups aren't self.

 

[Proneutron]

Where's the head for the bridge/control room crew on duty?

This is from of my old house rules for Mongoose 1st Ed:

Control Room tonnage (minimum)

Ship size
100 tons – 1,000 tons = 7 tons
Cost = MCr. 0.5

Consists of:
2 tons = Default sensors
1 ton = One air lock
1 ton = Ship's Locker
1 ton = Default computers and electronics
1 ton = Two Work Stations (usually for the Pilot & Astrogator)

Ship size
Over 1,000 tons = 9 tons
Cost = MCr. 1

2 tons = Default sensors
1 ton = One air lock
1 ton = Ship's Locker
3 tons = Default computers and electronics
1 ton = Two Work Stations (usually for a Pilot & Astrogator)

Each additional Control Room position (Gunner, Sensor operator, Co-Pilot, etc.) requires 1/2 ton of additional Work Station space. Each Command position (Officers who supervise) in the Control Room also requires another 1/2 ton of added Control Room space.

The cost of the additional Control Room space/workstations is MCr. 0.05 per ton.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

and if an astrogation station is required on a starship, is it required on a non starship?

All the hard number crunching is on Jump Calcs.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Does the "Bridge" not also include Galley (Microwave + Fridge + Washer at a minimum), Laundry Space, Housekeeping stores (unless in Ships Locker)

 

[coliver988]

Does the "Bridge" not also include Galley (Microwave + Fridge + Washer at a minimum), Laundry Space, Housekeeping stores (unless in Ships Locker)

Ship's locker is the only thing in that list I believe based on my reading of the rules. the other stuff goes into the commons which are not part of the bridge (and commons are part of stateroom tonnage as that tonnage is only partially for the actual stateroom but also for passageways and commons)

 

[Condottiere]

Urinals save space.

Or diapers.

With a twenty tonne Classic bridge, I make the assumption that a one tonne fresher, a two tonne airlock, and a one tonne ship's locker are included.

 

[kilemall]

For my CT bridges, I'm going with the HG 2% bridge to be the 'standard' that involves all the stations and control runs and interaction with engineering/gunnery/subsystems related to the size. A lot of it is duplicated low-level control electronics and supporting computers, cheaper then the ship's computer and highly specialized.

The small craft bridge gives you a sense of the minimal size for just two control stations, minimal sensor fit and minimal control runs to the equipment.

That leaves us with several tons of extra space tied up with smaller ACS. We don't get to 2% at 20 tons of bridge until 1000 tons total.

So I go with the idea that it's heavily automated, down to the Type S that can practically 'fly itself', with a lot of robotic and other assists so that just the pilot can fly it without a navigator or engineer.

Go up one level to the traders, and you get half as much automation so it requires more crew but still a lot less then it 'normally' should.

As such the bridge is spread around all over, including banks of ship assist modules in the walls floors and ceilings.


The other assumption I have has to do with sensors. I'm assuming a small craft bridge has minimal planetary range sensors (5000-25000 km) plus radio, computers gift you with 1 short range sensor and 1 long range sensor per model number, and a lot of the sensors are 'baked' into the hull of the ship. The computer increase is more about what it can process.

I have the full 20-ton bridge loaded with a complete set of planetary range sensors. So any ship can theoretically do 'minimum science' or surveys, but aren't automated for it and would require expertise in what is being studied. The exception is the scout, which is max automated and thus can 'do more with less'.

The reason though for the default sensor fit is more about safety, seeing that last second rock to dodge or not setting down in a pool of acid. They also act as 'warning receivers' for active sensors incoming, usually not good enough to get a fix/range, but good enough to warn and give a bearing.

The 2% bridge has this full set of sensors too even for the larger ships, it's just such a small part of the bridge no one hardly pays attention, and as such they are considered more


I like the ship locker/fresher/airlock bits posted here, takes care of some of that space on the CT ACS.

 

[vegas]

I would add damage control stations to the bridge 2%, as well as life support equipment & supplies (H2O, O2 & N2 tanks, CO2 scrubber, HVAC) and pumping stations for fuel/power/water/sewage & air.

I think the weapons locker and ships locker are separate from the bridge per RAW

Per CT:B2 pp 13-14, the bridge includes:
"basic controls, communications equipment, avionics, scanners, detectors, sensors, and other equipment for proper operation of the ship."

Per p15
"OPTIONAL COMPONENTS
The following optional components can be included in design plans, or may
be acquired for later installation on a vessel...

Ship's Locker: Every ship has a ship's locker. The actual cost of much of the equipment within the locker is inconsequential when compared to hull and drive costs; the referee should administer what is actually within the ship's locker based on the situation. Typical equipment carried aboard will include protective clothing, vacc suits, weapons such as shotguns or carbines, pistols, ammunition, compasses and survival aids, and portable shelters."

I think we are all interpreting the "other equipment" but quite broadly as intended, but ships locker is the bridge too far since it is explicitly discussed separately. [could resist that intended pun]

 

[mike wightman]

Even High Guard specifies a minimum of 20 tons for a bridge on ships 100 tons and over. A smallcraft bridge is a minimum of 4t, but for any smallcraft over 20t if it has a bridge it will be larger until it is 20t for a 99t shuttle.

So ask yourself what does a bridge offer in addition to the flight controls/workstations and avionics that must be installed even without a bridge in the event of only a computer and pilot couch.

 

[kilemall]

Even High Guard specifies a minimum of 20 tons for a bridge on ships 100 tons and over. A smallcraft bridge is a minimum of 4t, but for any smallcraft over 20t if it has a bridge it will be larger until it is 20t for a 99t shuttle.

So ask yourself what does a bridge offer in addition to the flight controls/workstations and avionics that must be installed even without a bridge in the event of only a computer and pilot couch.

I DO ask myself that question.


Radios, minimal sensors, navigation, power and control runs back to the power plant/drives etc. Assuming no computer that bridge setup has to be doing the underlying coordination/situational awareness/control work normally pawned off on the ship's computer. A certain amount of the automation I mentioned for the more sophisticated starships, sized down to the simpler needs of the small craft.


One of the things I like about my sensor scheme is that the small craft without computers end up being very short-sighted and tied to it's mother ship for planetary runs, not very good for independent operations. Kind of scary sending one of those just on a simple fuel run much less missions or exploring the unknown. You WANT that Model/1 on board.

 

[mike wightman]

A smallcraft can be flown with nothing more than a pilot's couch and a computer, and that includes a 99t shuttle.

A 100t spacecraft requires a bridge but why?

If all you want to do is move a few hundred tons around the system then build a 99t shuttle with 6g drives and have it push cargo pods around - reducing the g rating per pod.

No bridge required.

So what additionally do you need for a 'proper' spacecraft or starship that requires a minimum?

This is why I just lump everything I think a ship needs that isn't included in other design components into the 'bridge'.

Comms, sensors, advanced avionics, ship's locker - is that enough to account for the 4t rising to 20t minimum?

 

[mike wightman]

When does the hand computer become equivalent to a model 1?

At TL11 you can build your smallcraft without a computer and just plug in your Apple jumppad.

 

[kilemall]

A smallcraft can be flown with nothing more than a pilot's couch and a computer, and that includes a 99t shuttle.

A 100t spacecraft requires a bridge but why?

If all you want to do is move a few hundred tons around the system then build a 99t shuttle with 6g drives and have it push cargo pods around - reducing the g rating per pod.

No bridge required.

So what additionally do you need for a 'proper' spacecraft or starship that requires a minimum?

This is why I just lump everything I think a ship needs that isn't included in other design components into the 'bridge'.

Comms, sensors, advanced avionics, ship's locker - is that enough to account for the 4t rising to 20t minimum?

I'd say a big difference is jump-capability. Not applicable in the case of non-starships like monitors or SDBs, but the majority are starships and doing a whole different mode of travel requiring specialized equipment and navigation.


Habitability and duration of use is another. Small craft are not intended for long term missions and continuous use, a commercial craft is in flight at least 50% of the time for a week at a time, and patrol/scout/combat craft will often be on weeks-long operations. As such there needs to be a LOT more duplication, ruggedness and reliability built in, help is likely to be a long way off.


And as I have handwaved, those longer operating times while not using up all the space in stateroom crewing means there is a payoff in building in higher levels of automation in ship control/ops. If you aren't building in the bigger bridges, you would be having more staterooms and all the salary and life support costs that go with it.

 

[mike wightman]

I'd say a big difference is jump-capability. Not applicable in the case of non-starships like monitors or SDBs, but the majority are starships and doing a whole different mode of travel requiring specialized equipment and navigation.

Spaceships of 100t and greater require a bridge, a 99t shuttle doesn't.

Habitability and duration of use is another. Small craft are not intended for long term missions and continuous use, a commercial craft is in flight at least 50% of the time for a week at a time, and patrol/scout/combat craft will often be on weeks-long operations. As such there needs to be a LOT more duplication, ruggedness and reliability built in, help is likely to be a long way off.

So you add a couple of smallcraft staterooms to your 99t insystem shuttle for long duration, still better than a 20t bridge.

And as I have handwaved, those longer operating times while not using up all the space in stateroom crewing means there is a payoff in building in higher levels of automation in ship control/ops. If you aren't building in the bigger bridges, you would be having more staterooms and all the salary and life support costs that go with it.

So are you saying that a portion of the bridge tonnage is for life support overheads, grav plates, acceleration compensation that sort of thing? Airlocks, docking tubes, landing gear...

 

[Condottiere]

To reiterate, it's pretty much edition specific.

Was it Fire Fusion Steel, where you can add or subtract workstations?

Also, Mongoose seems to expanding beyond default bridge configurations.

 

[GypsyComet]

To reiterate, it's pretty much edition specific.

Was it Fire Fusion Steel, where you can add or subtract workstations?

Both MegaTraveller and TNE ignore the fixed volume approach entirely. You build the actual Bridge out of workstations or control panels and displays, while airlocks, life support, etc all have explicit volume assignments.