With a knick knack paddy whack, give a dog a bone,
this old Joe came rolling home?
this old Joe came rolling home?
OTU Only: What is your take on the Zhodani?
- Thread starter mike wightman
- Start date
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Thank you.
Well, they could always sell them TL 13 battleships at a discount.
I go with "No better or worse ... " but different. Very, very different. Too early in the experiment to see which one's going to prove to be better in the long run - and I mean WAY long run: who is likely to avoid extinction the longest, who is likely to figure out a way to avoid the end of the universe. Unfortunately, that wave thing absolutely ruined the experiment.
There's that. There's also the old "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" schtick. There's also the elephant in the room: Psionics.
Consider the following:
- Neither AM:3 or TTA have psionic rules in their Vargr chargens but, as our Absent Friend Hans always said, an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
- AM:3 also contains the very strange and suspicious "Gvurrdon's Story".
- There's a "Species vs. Species" psionic powers "translation" table in some version which lays out how easily psionics practiced by one race can effect another. Being both Terra-descended, there's no penalty for Humaniti-to-Vargr psionics or vice versa.
- Vilani & Vargr for MT tells us about a Vargr subspecies with "weird" psionic powers.
- GT's Alien Races:1 talks about how the Zhos occasionally "adjusts" captured corsairs before releasing them and how that scares the Vargr spitless.
- In his Zhodani sourcebook for MgT, Our Absent Friend Don describes a psionic-using Vargr polity along the Consulate - Extents border.
I am in no way suggesting that Vargr polities have been of the Outworld Coalition for 500 years due solely to "spooky" Zho mind tricks. I am suggesting, however, that the Zhos may have a greater "penetration" of many Vargr societies and cultures than they do with the Imperium.
One final note, Vilani & Vargr talks about how the Vargr view human societies as the "Monolith"; a seemingly static, unchanging, and staid juggernaut patiently following some unknown goal or plan generation after generation. Given that perception, the Consulate - which hasn't changed in the nearly 4,000 years the Vargr have been in contact with it - should be far more frightening than the upstart Imperium.
And yet the Vargr are seemingly less afraid of the Consulate.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Pack mentality.
More interestingly, why don't the Vargr raid the Zhodani?
More interestingly, why don't the Vargr raid the Zhodani?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Probably because the Zhodani accept the Vargr for what and who they are, the descendants of genetically uplifted dire wolves at the end of 300,000 years of evolution, rather than continually refer to them as dogs...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Vargr are opportunists; pretty impulsive ones.
The Zhodani would need some form of deterrence that would dissuade Vargr as a whole not to raid them, because individual packs wouldn't care if punitive campaigns wipe out others, which they'll even view as removing potential competitors.
The Zhodani would need some form of deterrence that would dissuade Vargr as a whole not to raid them, because individual packs wouldn't care if punitive campaigns wipe out others, which they'll even view as removing potential competitors.
The Zhodani take no penalty for telepathy vs Vargr... thus, they can easily find the true perps and won't need to blast innocents...
How do you tell the difference between wolf and malamute huskie? Genetic testing. If it looks like a slightly thin husky, it looks like an Alaskan Wolf.
Wolves are slightly more likely to have both eyes blue, too, but there's plenty of variability on both sides of the line.
If the Vagr value personal charisma, a canine version of the old Roman dignitas and honour, then wouldn't a little projection from a talented Zho make it easier for them to engage with the Vagr?
Which bit is the evolution and which bit the manipulation?
Not projection, psychology
Psionics allow the Zhodani to directly measure the effects of training, education, and therapy. They know which ad campaigns are working and why. They know which talking points change which minds. They know when they need to change their approach, why they need to make that change, and what change they should choose.
And because the Vargr are "Terran descended", the Zhodani psionic abilities work without penalty.
There's no Zhodani version of the Mule traveling across the Extents constantly "adjusting" the various movers and shakers there to keep the Outworld Coalition dancing to whatever Zhodane chooses. The Consulate is, however, able to convince various Vargr governments to select certain policies more often than not.
Any manipulation ended ~300,000 years ago, although...
Spoiler:
Manipulation provided sentience and hands during a relatively brief period three thousand centuries ago while evolution has been working ever since.
BRJN
SOC-12
By any chance, do Vargr tell stories about a highly-efficient energy-absorbent monolith whose sides are proportioned 1:4:9 ?
They very well might have somewhat similar stories peppered with different details.
When you remember that...
Spoiler:
After all, what better way to explain some of the beliefs of the Church of the Chosen Ones?
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Serial, cereal. The outcome is the same: Zho's use their psi talents and their adherent adjunct (can I use both of them sequentially like that or is it simply tortological?) mundane skills to alter Vagr opinions and actions in a manner that better suites Zhodani purposes. Even an assurance not to read another's thoughts or memories still leaves a talent psion plenty of opportunities to exploit.
I failed to make my point clear.
It's because the Vargr know the Zhodani can warp minds that the Zhodani must take very great care not to leave any "fingerprints" on the frontal lobes of any of the Vargr who happen to agree with them. Given how charisma is fundamental to Vargr society, a Vargr hoping to retain any charisma in the eyes of their fellows can neither be suspected of being "adjusted" nor of not following their own will. Being obviously adjusted makes a Vargr such a pariah that the Zhodani purposely make an example of troublesome corsairs by doing exactly that.
"Plausible deniability" isn't enough. A Vargr leader dealing with the Zhodani must be above reproach and beyond suspicion.
So, the Consulate cannot achieve their foreign policy goals by only convincing Vargr leaders and other opinion makers because those individuals will be suspect. Instead, the Consulate must engage in propaganda and media campaigns on a wide scale to convince entire Vargr populations to point where pro-Consulate leaders won't even be suspected. While the Consulate's mastery of psychology will help them shape their propaganda campaigns better than the Imperium can hope to do, the sheer number of Vargr they'll need to influence means the results of those campaigns won't be automatic or long lasting.
The Zho don't have to adjust many - they just have to adjust the right ones.
You don't adjust the major leaders.
You adjust a merchant crew, who keeps your agent hidden. And he adjusts a few of the passengers while they sleep. Just make them more outspoken if they already hold desired views, or less outspoken if not. Nothing major. But 3-5 people a week, on a dozen ships, and knowing that space travellers are more likely to be influential...
You don't change their views - that's too obvious. You just adjust their fear of sharing their views. A little paranoia for the ones you don't like, and self-image for the ones you do.
Get a newsman or three, as well, and make them sceptical of Zho influences. Have them ridicule psionics as propaganda.
Add snoopers (feeding to imperial and vargr consulates) to various computer systems, via one-time commands to various folk. No impulse to do so a second time.
You send some taverchedle in as tourists. Just to get a feel for the local attitudes. Meanwhile, others are snuck in. A maser headache can cover a psionic assault command implant. Said maser operated by a captured former Impie, Darrien, Ardenese, or Swordie. Anyone but a Zho - unless he's insane and a known local criminal.
A few pro-impies going excessive is more sway than a few leaders going Zho.
A handful of physically Vargr, culturally Zho agents can be a particularly potent weapon...
You don't adjust the major leaders.
You adjust a merchant crew, who keeps your agent hidden. And he adjusts a few of the passengers while they sleep. Just make them more outspoken if they already hold desired views, or less outspoken if not. Nothing major. But 3-5 people a week, on a dozen ships, and knowing that space travellers are more likely to be influential...
You don't change their views - that's too obvious. You just adjust their fear of sharing their views. A little paranoia for the ones you don't like, and self-image for the ones you do.
Get a newsman or three, as well, and make them sceptical of Zho influences. Have them ridicule psionics as propaganda.
Add snoopers (feeding to imperial and vargr consulates) to various computer systems, via one-time commands to various folk. No impulse to do so a second time.
You send some taverchedle in as tourists. Just to get a feel for the local attitudes. Meanwhile, others are snuck in. A maser headache can cover a psionic assault command implant. Said maser operated by a captured former Impie, Darrien, Ardenese, or Swordie. Anyone but a Zho - unless he's insane and a known local criminal.
A few pro-impies going excessive is more sway than a few leaders going Zho.
A handful of physically Vargr, culturally Zho agents can be a particularly potent weapon...
Exactly. You adjust those individuals who are "bellweathers".
Again, exactly. Major leaders are too well known. Any changes to their opinions and behavior would be too noticeable.
Again, exactly. You're preparing the "soil" for the "opinions" you want to "grow". You're not creating pom-pom waving Vargr who chant "Let's go Zho!".
That will be tougher see as the Consulate exists and has for millennia. Some target audiences will be stupid enough to believe it, just not enough.
Downplaying psionic abilities and exaggerating the ability to detect/deter psionic manipulation is something else entirely.
And thanks to our absent friend Don, there's a multi-system Vargr polity sandwiched between the Consulate and Extents from which to recruit those agents.
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