More the general space they require... I.e. the container will fit into that space..
CT Only: What One Thing Would You Change About Classic Traveller?
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Condottiere
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Either the container dimensions or the buffer zone.
Vertical stacking won't require one.
Vertical stacking won't require one.
So, we're thinking on the same lines, just slightly differing in our assumptions of the volume required. I've actually worked out the volume taken up per TEU and FEU for the on-deck storage (based on the beam, number of rows, adding lashing bridges to the length, adjusting the height slightly for the twist-locks) - it comes out as about 3.5 Td for a TEU and 7 Td for a FEU. In other words, slap-bang in the middle of our respective assumptions.
Kakistocrat
SOC-12
I take it that the jump “best route” is not necessarily the straightest possible line to the destination, as it would be outside of jump?
If the straightest possible line also applies to jump, i.e. if the goal is to point the ship to precisely the right heading at 100D just before engaging jump, then (as an example), presuming that Prometheus is Proxima Centauri b, imagine a triangle with point “C” being the destination of 100 D from Prometheus, point “A” being the closest point to Prometheus that is 100D from Terra, and point “B” being the farthest point from Prometheus that is 100D from Terra: there is only a 200,000 km difference in non-jump distance between the optimal A-C line (the “opposite side” of the triangle) and the suboptimal B-C line (the hypotenuse of the triangle), which is literally a rounding error for a distance of 1.3 parsecs. (The optimal A-C line is about 31.3 million times longer that the distance of the A-B line, the “adjacent side” of the triangle.)
Probably. I tend to deal in round numbers, in that when I mention a specific volume all the little details are included.
In the case of cargo volumes specifically when I talk about the cargo box/hold in terms of the number of containers/volume I assume the requisite bracing/tie downs are included. Though note drawing them out they probably will have a bit more visual space for artistic license.
Note, fully loaded cargo holds generally have little space to move about in. Now there is probably room in the void spaces around the holds with access through hatches, but in traveller that generally goes by the wayside. (Note mostly Traveller ships have more in common with Cargo planes than they do with maritime ships).
Like real ships they go around or under the cargo hold.
I make a distinction between space capable vacc hardened containers and pressurized inside containers. That and a lot of the ACS are intended to interact at the downport. So figuring out deck plans for streamlined ACS cargo holds count.
On reflection, I think your 4Td/8Td volume allowance for containers is probably best to go with
Agreed. The specific mechanisms for "lashing" would be different for space ships, but would probably need a similar volume. I imagine they would have guide rails similar to the ones used in container ship holds but horizontal instead of vertical, with an equivalent of the lashing bridge between holds to allow for inspection.
A lot of things go by the wayside in Traveller.
Container ships, bulk carriers and tankers all have "void spaces" for access/inspection around their holds.My own assumption is that cable runs etc would be via the equivalent of lashing bridges. If those are enclosed (with windows for visual inspection of containers) then only they would need to have life support maintained.
While of interest if only for engineering drama, my main point is that the cabling has to exist in whatever form and has to be a floor/ceiling component of total deck height. What is that deck height most people assume/work out? Affects container height and stacking.
Side notes, my assumption is that there are redundant feeds of every type to provide functionality until near hull death, so feeds including around cargo holds, and that it is this design feature that forces the hardpoint limitation. This is actually built into my hybrid damage table. Your assumptions may vary.
Second side note, cargo bays can be pressurized without having to expend life support. Crew isn’t down there often so you aren’t going to have to scrub air very often for that.
Probably shouldn’t be a concern unless you are hauling live animals. Most would probably use the cold berths for that, the only exception would be the safari ship in capture mode when the animal is too rare or big to freeze. An operating cost I’m guessing most of us have not considered.
Otherwise running a cargo hold in vacuum or the potential for depressurization to avoid battle damage/air loss would seem to indicate cargo containers should have an option or standard to maintain pressure. If it is standard, they should be built to starship hull costs and the external mounted business model is more viable.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
I will note that the BITS 101 Cargos (I think) has some very extensive rules on cargo. A very complex cargo code indicating all sorts of things, including expected range of atmosphere/pressure/vacuum the cargo container is rated for. Along with species-specific warning codes. Never used it other than for fun but for me the steward/purser/cargo master is expected to read & often verify those codes.
Picked up most of the BITS stuff (British Isles Traveller...err, something, support I think) years ago and though mostly T4 I think, some useful things in there (note my sig - I plunder a lot of Traveller toolboxes!)
ahh, and an old post of mine that explains the BITS cargo code here: https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/2022/03/hendar-0908-darlee-quadrant.html
Picked up most of the BITS stuff (British Isles Traveller...err, something, support I think) years ago and though mostly T4 I think, some useful things in there (note my sig - I plunder a lot of Traveller toolboxes!)
ahh, and an old post of mine that explains the BITS cargo code here: https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/2022/03/hendar-0908-darlee-quadrant.html
Wow that’s even more involved then my container rules.
I got into the topic as a way for merchant captains to take on more per ton reward- for more risk.
CT Only: - My TC Universe
In addition, there are support and software market aspects to the pricing model. For Astronics, a large part of the fee is a 'lifetime' support contract- physical damage replacement still has to be paid for, but there will be upgrades and updates installed for free during yearly maintenance...
www.travellerrpg.com
Rereading, was also about computer reliability/cost- I had the option of buying better model computers that cost less because they are more fragile, justifying CT computer prices because they are massively failover.
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You mean if I was drawing detailed blueprints for the ship? The holds where the containers themselves go would span multiple decks without any actual deck, just the guide rails for each row/tier. The lashing bridge equivalent could be treated as a floor/ceiling - my own assumption would be that those are about 1.2m wide (including walls) with 15cm clear space on each side. They'd be multi-deck with normal floor-to-ceiling height; services would run in the ceilings/floors. Something like this (but maybe flipped 90 degrees for horizontal side loading:
The blue arrow points to the guide rail which separates rows of containers, the red arrow points to the lashing bridge (I think the ones below deck may be called something else).
Doesn’t answer my question, what is standard deck height.
Condottiere
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Presumably, above wave height at full load.
That’s displacement and buoyancy, interesting and relevant things to know but not what I’m asking for.
Generally, people assume 3m per deck including the floor/ceiling void where services run. Actual hold spaces may be several decks high with just one floor and ceiling.
That’s my assumption re hold which is why stacking is important. I’m assuming attachment floor and ceiling. Maybe even side bolts we don’t use in RL stacking, cause multi-g vee suggests even greater stability required.
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