What skill levels do your CT characters have?

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
The Marquis Terran Tukera of Aramis, Baron of Natoko, ranking Imperial noble of the Aramis subsector
4C8AAD
Legal-0, Robot Ops-0, Computer-1, Linguistics-0, Liasion-0, Cutlass-1, Dagger-1, Carousing-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Tactics-1, Gambling-2, SMG-3, Navigation-1, Brawling-2, Riftian Anglic-4.

Another thing that I might mention is that Terran Tukera had the ADROIT PURSUIT chartered for political reasons. The Marquis has his hands full with subsector problems. Aramanx is a powder keg, about to blow. Besides this, Sternmetal is pulling the strings on the world whereas Terran wants the Tukera megacorp to be the great Oz behind the curtain of that planet if any one is.

Sternmetal has been stiff-arming Tukera's advances, both from an Imperial political standpoint and as the head of the Tukera megacorp in the region.

So, Tukera's plan is to approach Aramanx, not surrounded by a squadron of Imperial Naval ships or some of Tukera's most highly armed freighters, but through the back door, unnoticed, until it's too late, via standard, everyday shipping.

Or...that's what it seemed at first...

You see, just before the launch of the ADROIT PURSUIT, setting off on its charted journey to Aramanx, a Tukera vessel plummeted from the sky over Aramis.

Aboard that 5000 ton hauler were two Imperial Naval spinal mount meson weapons.

Then the news reported that analysis at the crash site showed that the meson weapons were not aboard--attempted disguisew with trash internal components and surplus computer supplies (that were supposed to degrade in Aramis' corrosive atmosphere, leaving no trace of the stolen weapons).

Well, as the PURSUIT made its journey towards Aramanx, the ship was attacked. Soon, it was discovered that the attackers were the Vemene! The clandestine commando arm of the Tukera megacorporation.

Why were they attacking their own? The leader of the Tukera family in this region of space?

They it was because they had found out that Terran Tukera was the one responsible for the treason of stealing the meson guns--a fact that, if let out in public, would threaten House Tukera politically in this region of the Imperium.

Terran Tukera denies it, but his memory is hazy. He doesn't know if he did it or not, and he suspects Zhodani involvement.

Right now, in my game, the players actually believe that Terran did steal the meson guns.

And, since House Tukera is out to keep this quiet, all involved with Terran are subject to their form of silencing.

The Marquis Terran Tukera is on the run from his own House--and from the Imperial Navy as well should talk of his treason reach the ears of the public at large.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
The Marquis Terran Tukera of Aramis, Baron of Natoko, ranking Imperial noble of the Aramis subsector
4C8AAD
Legal-0, Robot Ops-0, Computer-1, Linguistics-0, Liasion-0, Cutlass-1, Dagger-1, Carousing-1, Combat Rifleman-1, Tactics-1, Gambling-2, SMG-3, Navigation-1, Brawling-2, Riftian Anglic-4.

Another thing that I might mention is that Terran Tukera had the ADROIT PURSUIT chartered for political reasons. The Marquis has his hands full with subsector problems. Aramanx is a powder keg, about to blow. Besides this, Sternmetal is pulling the strings on the world whereas Terran wants the Tukera megacorp to be the great Oz behind the curtain of that planet if any one is.

Sternmetal has been stiff-arming Tukera's advances, both from an Imperial political standpoint and as the head of the Tukera megacorp in the region.

So, Tukera's plan is to approach Aramanx, not surrounded by a squadron of Imperial Naval ships or some of Tukera's most highly armed freighters, but through the back door, unnoticed, until it's too late, via standard, everyday shipping.

Or...that's what it seemed at first...

You see, just before the launch of the ADROIT PURSUIT, setting off on its charted journey to Aramanx, a Tukera vessel plummeted from the sky over Aramis.

Aboard that 5000 ton hauler were two Imperial Naval spinal mount meson weapons.

Then the news reported that analysis at the crash site showed that the meson weapons were not aboard--attempted disguisew with trash internal components and surplus computer supplies (that were supposed to degrade in Aramis' corrosive atmosphere, leaving no trace of the stolen weapons).

Well, as the PURSUIT made its journey towards Aramanx, the ship was attacked. Soon, it was discovered that the attackers were the Vemene! The clandestine commando arm of the Tukera megacorporation.

Why were they attacking their own? The leader of the Tukera family in this region of space?

They it was because they had found out that Terran Tukera was the one responsible for the treason of stealing the meson guns--a fact that, if let out in public, would threaten House Tukera politically in this region of the Imperium.

Terran Tukera denies it, but his memory is hazy. He doesn't know if he did it or not, and he suspects Zhodani involvement.

Right now, in my game, the players actually believe that Terran did steal the meson guns.

And, since House Tukera is out to keep this quiet, all involved with Terran are subject to their form of silencing.

The Marquis Terran Tukera is on the run from his own House--and from the Imperial Navy as well should talk of his treason reach the ears of the public at large.

 

[flykiller]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />S4, those look to have too many skill levels...

Whereas I think they look perfect.</font>[/QUOTE]it depends on how they're used in a given task system.

for example, if vacc suit 1 means the character has been trained and certified in the use of the equipment and can be depended upon to suit up, go into vaccuum, fix something, return, and put away the suit properly maintenanced for its next use, then vacc suit 3 won't be common. if vacc suit 1 means the character once saw a picture of a vacc suit in a magazine, then vacc suit 7 might be necessary to survive.

 

[flykiller]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />S4, those look to have too many skill levels...

Whereas I think they look perfect.</font>[/QUOTE]it depends on how they're used in a given task system.

for example, if vacc suit 1 means the character has been trained and certified in the use of the equipment and can be depended upon to suit up, go into vaccuum, fix something, return, and put away the suit properly maintenanced for its next use, then vacc suit 3 won't be common. if vacc suit 1 means the character once saw a picture of a vacc suit in a magazine, then vacc suit 7 might be necessary to survive.

 

[BlackBat242]

OK, I modified the chargen in my game to have total skill levels = Int + 2Edu (with level 0 skills counting as 1/2 a level).

Yes, this lets them get a few more, but I also cap the max they can reach, on this basis.

Remember the classic Trek episode where Kirk was on trial for murder? The story hinged on the point that only someone with a Computer skill of 6 could have altered the ship's log undetectably... and there were only 2 persons aboard with Comp-6... Kirk and the person he was accused of killing.

This on Starfleet's flagship, with 430 of the best of Starfleet's personnel aboard.

Oh yes. Spock had a Comp-7... the only one in ALL of Starfleet.


Therefore, to gain a skill of 5, you must make an unmodified 10+ roll on 2d6 to avoid getting Instruction instead... and 12 to get a 6. Very special circumstances are required for someone to get a 7...


Also, I equate skill levels to Academic degrees as follows:
level 2 = trade school/Associates Degree.
level 3 = Bachelor's Degree
level 4 = Master's Degree
level 5 = Doctorate
level 6 = pioneering researcher
level 7 = Steven Hawking, Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Sir Issac Newton, etc.

To receive an actual Degree, you must have the appropriate level in your primary skill, and a level no more than 1 lower in a related skill. At least 1 level in each skill must have been received during a period of formal education, i.e at a University or Service Academy.

 

[BlackBat242]

OK, I modified the chargen in my game to have total skill levels = Int + 2Edu (with level 0 skills counting as 1/2 a level).

Yes, this lets them get a few more, but I also cap the max they can reach, on this basis.

Remember the classic Trek episode where Kirk was on trial for murder? The story hinged on the point that only someone with a Computer skill of 6 could have altered the ship's log undetectably... and there were only 2 persons aboard with Comp-6... Kirk and the person he was accused of killing.

This on Starfleet's flagship, with 430 of the best of Starfleet's personnel aboard.

Oh yes. Spock had a Comp-7... the only one in ALL of Starfleet.


Therefore, to gain a skill of 5, you must make an unmodified 10+ roll on 2d6 to avoid getting Instruction instead... and 12 to get a 6. Very special circumstances are required for someone to get a 7...


Also, I equate skill levels to Academic degrees as follows:
level 2 = trade school/Associates Degree.
level 3 = Bachelor's Degree
level 4 = Master's Degree
level 5 = Doctorate
level 6 = pioneering researcher
level 7 = Steven Hawking, Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Sir Issac Newton, etc.

To receive an actual Degree, you must have the appropriate level in your primary skill, and a level no more than 1 lower in a related skill. At least 1 level in each skill must have been received during a period of formal education, i.e at a University or Service Academy.

 

[jrmapes]

I use Employee #2-4601's "Revised Basic Character Generation for Classic Traveller v1.1" and Supp4's Experience rules, "Drawing on Experience", in my games and like the feel of it much better than the vanilla CT LBB1-3 or some of the other mods i've seen. I also agree that more skills are a good thing and higher skill levels are not such a good thing. I would rather one of my players have 15 to 20 skills and 20 to 25 skill points ranging from 0 to 4 with 1 or 2 being the average than have 4 to 6 skills with 3 or 4 being the average and someone having a 7 or 8 in there.

Once you figure in the experience point system, it really does make perfect sense.

We have a cap of Skill Level 6 on character creation and apply the skill levels as such
1= High School
2= 1yr Trade School/Assoc. Degree
3= 2yr Trade School/Assoc. Degree
4= Bachelor's Degree
5= Masters Degree
6= Doctorate
7= A Noted Leader in the Field - Known within the field.
8= The Top of the Field, No One Better - Nearly a household name.

No skill can ever go past level 8 and rarely reach Level 6 unless the character has been playing for a very long time.


Jerry

 

[jrmapes]

I use Employee #2-4601's "Revised Basic Character Generation for Classic Traveller v1.1" and Supp4's Experience rules, "Drawing on Experience", in my games and like the feel of it much better than the vanilla CT LBB1-3 or some of the other mods i've seen. I also agree that more skills are a good thing and higher skill levels are not such a good thing. I would rather one of my players have 15 to 20 skills and 20 to 25 skill points ranging from 0 to 4 with 1 or 2 being the average than have 4 to 6 skills with 3 or 4 being the average and someone having a 7 or 8 in there.

Once you figure in the experience point system, it really does make perfect sense.

We have a cap of Skill Level 6 on character creation and apply the skill levels as such
1= High School
2= 1yr Trade School/Assoc. Degree
3= 2yr Trade School/Assoc. Degree
4= Bachelor's Degree
5= Masters Degree
6= Doctorate
7= A Noted Leader in the Field - Known within the field.
8= The Top of the Field, No One Better - Nearly a household name.

No skill can ever go past level 8 and rarely reach Level 6 unless the character has been playing for a very long time.


Jerry

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

I'm with Aramis... too many skills, levels too high... for my taste.

It boils down to a fundamental question, to which LBBs 1-3 and Supplement 4 (the book, not the poster ) on one hand, and LBBs 4-7 on the other seem to give conflicting answers:

Is CT a proto-GURPS or not? In other words, should it be played as though it has the full-blown encyclopedic skill set that GURPS and e.g. MT have?

I say: nope. And I think LBB1-3 and S4 (book) agree with me on some level. But it's a matter of taste.

I remember somebody on this board (atpollard?) saying that CT skill levels are almost like D&D Prestige Classes. A mere skill level in anything means you're an expert in that activity, and assumes that you know stuff about related stuff.

Given this, the number and levels of skills generated by LBB 1-3 are sufficient. A guy with Computer-1, Vacc-Suit-1, and Rifle-1 is totally playable.

So, I'm reading LBBs 1-3 like OD&D or BD&D... just because few PCs in those games have any skills at all, they're not utterly incompetent. They have jobs, they know their shit.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

I'm with Aramis... too many skills, levels too high... for my taste.

It boils down to a fundamental question, to which LBBs 1-3 and Supplement 4 (the book, not the poster ) on one hand, and LBBs 4-7 on the other seem to give conflicting answers:

Is CT a proto-GURPS or not? In other words, should it be played as though it has the full-blown encyclopedic skill set that GURPS and e.g. MT have?

I say: nope. And I think LBB1-3 and S4 (book) agree with me on some level. But it's a matter of taste.

I remember somebody on this board (atpollard?) saying that CT skill levels are almost like D&D Prestige Classes. A mere skill level in anything means you're an expert in that activity, and assumes that you know stuff about related stuff.

Given this, the number and levels of skills generated by LBB 1-3 are sufficient. A guy with Computer-1, Vacc-Suit-1, and Rifle-1 is totally playable.

So, I'm reading LBBs 1-3 like OD&D or BD&D... just because few PCs in those games have any skills at all, they're not utterly incompetent. They have jobs, they know their shit.

 

[robject]

I get terrible anxiety in Traveller when my characters have more than ten skills. That's because I can't organize them well in my head -- they're usually just written down as they were first learned.

I prefer fewer, broader skills.

 

[robject]

I get terrible anxiety in Traveller when my characters have more than ten skills. That's because I can't organize them well in my head -- they're usually just written down as they were first learned.

I prefer fewer, broader skills.

 

[Prospero]

I have to admit, I tend to like LBB4-7. Skill creep I guess. If one actually rolls for skill eligibility, the levels don't get too high (for me). I don't mind using LBB1 if one add substantial number of 0-level skills. (eg. my marine lieutenant must have at least tactics-0 right?)

I've always based my interpretation of skill levels on medical school and doctors. If Medic-3 qualifies you as a doctor then:

Biology-1: BSc in Biology
Medic-1: Paramedic
Rifle-1: Served in a combat unit
Tactics-1: general competency in small unit tactics
Recon-1: Light infantry

Biology-2: Msc
Medic-2: Nursing Degree
Rifle-2: Close quarter combat trained
Tactics-2: Experience leading troops in battle
Recon-2: Recon unit from a non SOF unit.

Biology-3: PhD
Medic-3: Doctor, MD
Rifle-3: Trained sniper
Tactics-3: CQG expert (eg. Navy Seals, Delta Force)
Recon-3: SOF type recon. Marine Force Recon etc, Sniper

Anyway, that's just me.
NT

 

[Prospero]

I have to admit, I tend to like LBB4-7. Skill creep I guess. If one actually rolls for skill eligibility, the levels don't get too high (for me). I don't mind using LBB1 if one add substantial number of 0-level skills. (eg. my marine lieutenant must have at least tactics-0 right?)

I've always based my interpretation of skill levels on medical school and doctors. If Medic-3 qualifies you as a doctor then:

Biology-1: BSc in Biology
Medic-1: Paramedic
Rifle-1: Served in a combat unit
Tactics-1: general competency in small unit tactics
Recon-1: Light infantry

Biology-2: Msc
Medic-2: Nursing Degree
Rifle-2: Close quarter combat trained
Tactics-2: Experience leading troops in battle
Recon-2: Recon unit from a non SOF unit.

Biology-3: PhD
Medic-3: Doctor, MD
Rifle-3: Trained sniper
Tactics-3: CQG expert (eg. Navy Seals, Delta Force)
Recon-3: SOF type recon. Marine Force Recon etc, Sniper

Anyway, that's just me.
NT

 

[BlackBat242]

I strongly agree with the "Cascade Skills" concept.

Receipt of Vehicle skill requires the player choosing which skill the character gets (aircraft, grav vehicle, wheeled vehicle, etc), and then the sub-type (helo, jet, LTA, etc) and, if needed, sub-sub-type (small jet, large multi-engined jet).

Engineering must be taken on either jump, maneuver, or powerplant.


This keeps the level from getting too high and limits how many modifiers you get (unless you are a true specialist).


It also makes characters truly unique... not just generic cardboard cut-outs.

An engineer might be better with jump engines than with powerplants, a merc might have no powered-weapons skills (but be really good with handguns), someone can operate watercraft but not grav vehicles, etc.


I also use J Andrew Keith's Medical skills expansion article I'm a Doctor, not a... from Space Gamer #47, which breaks Medical down into 9 different sub-skills, to create Doctors that are more unique.

While any ship or town has a Medic, can he really deal with All medical procedures and conditions? Of course not, that's why clinics and hospitals require staffs, so that the different specialties cover all areas.


While this does make for a larger, more specialist skill list, it also makes for more interesting characters... and increases the need of the adventurers to interact with the non-Travelling public.

This increases opportunities for short encounters with potential hireling specialists, with all of the complications that that can create.

It makes for a fuller, more living game environment.

 

[BlackBat242]

I strongly agree with the "Cascade Skills" concept.

Receipt of Vehicle skill requires the player choosing which skill the character gets (aircraft, grav vehicle, wheeled vehicle, etc), and then the sub-type (helo, jet, LTA, etc) and, if needed, sub-sub-type (small jet, large multi-engined jet).

Engineering must be taken on either jump, maneuver, or powerplant.


This keeps the level from getting too high and limits how many modifiers you get (unless you are a true specialist).


It also makes characters truly unique... not just generic cardboard cut-outs.

An engineer might be better with jump engines than with powerplants, a merc might have no powered-weapons skills (but be really good with handguns), someone can operate watercraft but not grav vehicles, etc.


I also use J Andrew Keith's Medical skills expansion article I'm a Doctor, not a... from Space Gamer #47, which breaks Medical down into 9 different sub-skills, to create Doctors that are more unique.

While any ship or town has a Medic, can he really deal with All medical procedures and conditions? Of course not, that's why clinics and hospitals require staffs, so that the different specialties cover all areas.


While this does make for a larger, more specialist skill list, it also makes for more interesting characters... and increases the need of the adventurers to interact with the non-Travelling public.

This increases opportunities for short encounters with potential hireling specialists, with all of the complications that that can create.

It makes for a fuller, more living game environment.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
I strongly agree with the "Cascade Skills" concept.

Aye, I hear that.

As a general rule, in my campaign, any skill that can be attempted without specialized training is a skill the character already has...at Skill-0. Admin-0, Bribery-0, Streetwise-0, but not Swimming-0, or Engineering-0, or Pilot-0.

They're zero level skills, and every character has them, so there's no need to write them on the character's sheet.

I'll also look to the CT skill descriptions to get an idea of the penalty associated (if any) with not having the skill at Level-1.

Like Bribery. Typically, that's a -5 DM if you've only got Bribery-0. If you've got Bribery-1, then it's a +1 DM.

Also, I subscribe to the "minus one" and "serves as" style of play. Skills overlap. A character could have Air/Raft, and another could have Grav Vehicle. They both could pilot an Air/Raft equally (altough the guy with the Grav Vehicle skill would be allowed to apply his skill in a broader range of circumstances).

A character can have AutoPistol, another can have Pistol, and another can have Handgun. If firinging an autopistol, all of these skills "serves as" the other (but there are some differences in the skill).

One character could have Rifle and another could have Combat Rifleman. Again, the skills "serve as" the other in terms of firing a rifle.

So, if I see a character has a skill, and he attempts to use a like skill, I'll either let him use the skill at the present skill level...or I'll bump it down a point.

For example, let's say a character has Rifle-3, but he picks up a shotgun to use. Aren't the two skills similar? I'd say they are. I'd let the character use the Rifle skill as the Shotgun skill "minus one". So, the character would fire a rifle as with his Rifle-3. He can also fire a shotgun as if he had Shotgun-2.

This makes CT skills very broad. You only have a few skills as a CT character, but a good GM will let you apply those skills to a wide variety of instances--as long as it makes sense.

Use your noggin when GMing CT characters.

One last thing to point out: Not all skills need to be used the same. Note the description of the Engineering skill in the Traveller Book. It says that, typically, use a +1 DM per level of skill when making Engineering throws. But, if you're making a throw in an area that might be covered by Engineering and another like skill (like a Mechanical throw or an Electrical throw...since Engineering encompasses both of these skills), then allow a +2 DM per Enginneering skill level.

So, if a character with Electronics-1 and a character with Engineering-1 were to attempt to re-wire the lights of a derelict spacecraft the Electronics character would roll with a +1 DM, and the Engineering character would roll with a +2 DM even though both have the same skill.

Just my take on things. That's how I run my game, anyway.

S4

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by BlackBat242:
I strongly agree with the "Cascade Skills" concept.

Aye, I hear that.

As a general rule, in my campaign, any skill that can be attempted without specialized training is a skill the character already has...at Skill-0. Admin-0, Bribery-0, Streetwise-0, but not Swimming-0, or Engineering-0, or Pilot-0.

They're zero level skills, and every character has them, so there's no need to write them on the character's sheet.

I'll also look to the CT skill descriptions to get an idea of the penalty associated (if any) with not having the skill at Level-1.

Like Bribery. Typically, that's a -5 DM if you've only got Bribery-0. If you've got Bribery-1, then it's a +1 DM.

Also, I subscribe to the "minus one" and "serves as" style of play. Skills overlap. A character could have Air/Raft, and another could have Grav Vehicle. They both could pilot an Air/Raft equally (altough the guy with the Grav Vehicle skill would be allowed to apply his skill in a broader range of circumstances).

A character can have AutoPistol, another can have Pistol, and another can have Handgun. If firinging an autopistol, all of these skills "serves as" the other (but there are some differences in the skill).

One character could have Rifle and another could have Combat Rifleman. Again, the skills "serve as" the other in terms of firing a rifle.

So, if I see a character has a skill, and he attempts to use a like skill, I'll either let him use the skill at the present skill level...or I'll bump it down a point.

For example, let's say a character has Rifle-3, but he picks up a shotgun to use. Aren't the two skills similar? I'd say they are. I'd let the character use the Rifle skill as the Shotgun skill "minus one". So, the character would fire a rifle as with his Rifle-3. He can also fire a shotgun as if he had Shotgun-2.

This makes CT skills very broad. You only have a few skills as a CT character, but a good GM will let you apply those skills to a wide variety of instances--as long as it makes sense.

Use your noggin when GMing CT characters.

One last thing to point out: Not all skills need to be used the same. Note the description of the Engineering skill in the Traveller Book. It says that, typically, use a +1 DM per level of skill when making Engineering throws. But, if you're making a throw in an area that might be covered by Engineering and another like skill (like a Mechanical throw or an Electrical throw...since Engineering encompasses both of these skills), then allow a +2 DM per Enginneering skill level.

So, if a character with Electronics-1 and a character with Engineering-1 were to attempt to re-wire the lights of a derelict spacecraft the Electronics character would roll with a +1 DM, and the Engineering character would roll with a +2 DM even though both have the same skill.

Just my take on things. That's how I run my game, anyway.

S4

 

[Prospero]

For example, let's say a character has Rifle-3, but he picks up a shotgun to use. Aren't the two skills similar? I'd say they are. I'd let the character use the Rifle skill as the Shotgun skill "minus one". So, the character would fire a rifle as with his Rifle-3. He can also fire a shotgun as if he had Shotgun-2. [/QB]

This is the T4 approach to cascade skills, which I like.

As for 0-level skills, I see them as something the character has through experience but doesn't really use much and may have forgotten. They get no bonuses but also suffer no penalties.

For example, most military characters would have tactics-0, but civilians wouldn't. Every one gets air/raft-0 except for the bargarian from a TL3 world. He suffers penalties when trying to drive.

I also use them for 'forgotten skills' to come in under the int+edu limit. So, you might have picked up high energy weapons-1 in your first term, but subsequent term skills suggest you entered a support role. You could then have HEW-0. You know how to use it, but are out of practice and get no bonuses (whereas a civilian would).

Anyhoo...NT

 

[Prospero]

For example, let's say a character has Rifle-3, but he picks up a shotgun to use. Aren't the two skills similar? I'd say they are. I'd let the character use the Rifle skill as the Shotgun skill "minus one". So, the character would fire a rifle as with his Rifle-3. He can also fire a shotgun as if he had Shotgun-2. [/QB]

This is the T4 approach to cascade skills, which I like.

As for 0-level skills, I see them as something the character has through experience but doesn't really use much and may have forgotten. They get no bonuses but also suffer no penalties.

For example, most military characters would have tactics-0, but civilians wouldn't. Every one gets air/raft-0 except for the bargarian from a TL3 world. He suffers penalties when trying to drive.

I also use them for 'forgotten skills' to come in under the int+edu limit. So, you might have picked up high energy weapons-1 in your first term, but subsequent term skills suggest you entered a support role. You could then have HEW-0. You know how to use it, but are out of practice and get no bonuses (whereas a civilian would).

Anyhoo...NT