What title hold the Imperial representatives in Autonomous regions?

[McPerth]

Within the Imperium there are several autonomous entities. The best known of them is the Vegan Autotnomous Región, but according to Travellermap there are several more, ranging from a few worlds (e.g. League of Antares) to more than a subsector (as the Vegan AR or Lancian Cultural región).

Assuming they have Autonomous governments, they should have an Imperial representative. IMHO it should not be a Duke, as Dukes are the Ranking Nobles for a Subsector, but not more autonomous tan other divisions of the Imperium.

Should this Imperial Representative be a Nobiliary Rank (and so for life and probably hereditary, as a Dike is) or an Office (so a temporary post, as and aldmiral is)?

And how are they called and what atributions they have?

Historically they would probably be Viceroys or Governors, but are there any equivalent in the Imperium?

 

[Meteoric Assault]

Within the Imperium there are several autonomous entities. The best known of them is the Vegan Autotnomous Región, but according to Travellermap there are several more, ranging from a few worlds (e.g. League of Antares) to more than a subsector (as teh Vegan AR or Lancian CUltural región.

Assuming they have Autonomous governments, they should have an Imperial representative. IMHO it should not be a Duke, as Dukes are the Ranking Nobles for a Subsector, but not more autonomous tan other divisions of the Imperium.

Should this Imperial Representative be a Nobiliary Rank (and so for life and probably hereditary, as a Dike is) or an Office (so a temporary post, as and aldmiral is)?

And how are they called and what atributions they have?



Historically they would probably be Viceroys or Governors, but are there any equivalent in the Imperium?

Imperial Chancellors, Lord Governor-Generals, Satrap..... take your pick ....

 

[whulorigan]

The League of Antares is personally overseen by the Archduke of Antares, I believe.

But not all "regions" as such are necessarily semi-autonomous. The Vegan Autonomous District and the League of Antares are, but the others may just be regional cultural distinctions.

 

[GypsyComet]

But not all "regions" as such are necessarily semi-autonomous. The Vegan Autonomous District and the League of Antares are, but the others may just be regional cultural distinctions.

The Lancian Cultural Region is a region where Vilani cultural Darwinism failed, but I don't think it is, or considers itself, autonomous enough for special government arrangements.

The Geonee Home Stars are insular and keep their own language and noble titles internally, but their Imperial representation is fairly close to normal.

The Suerrat shucked the Vilani overlay when the Terrans took over, but it is unclear whether they retained their original social leadership structures during the Long Night and after Imperial contact.

The Luriani run parallel titles, native and Imperial, and Strephon names a Luriani the Archduke of Gateway.

 

[McPerth]

The League of Antares is personally overseen by the Archduke of Antares, I believe.

Yes, probably this is the easiest one

But not all "regions" as such are necessarily semi-autonomous. The Vegan Autonomous District and the League of Antares are, but the others may just be regional cultural distinctions.

I guess there are many more such regions than those shown in the Travellermap (Unión of Sufren, as described in MT:Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora, or Easter Concord, just to guive some examples), yet they are not marked on the map. So, I assumed those given as internal borders in the map are the ones that have some degree of autonomy...

 

[whulorigan]

The Suerrat shucked the Vilani overlay when the Terrans took over, but it is unclear whether they retained their original social leadership structures during the Long Night and after Imperial contact.

The Suerrat are native to the world Ilelish, and were the group that engaged in the Ilelish Revolt against the Third Imperium in the 400's, and were put down rather forcibly. I am fairly certain that they were not granted any degree of "home rule" or cultural independence post-400's.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Hi McPerth,

Great post.

Within the Imperium there are several autonomous entities. The best known of them is the Vegan Autotnomous Región, but according to Travellermap there are several more, ranging from a few worlds (e.g. League of Antares) to more than a subsector (as teh Vegan AR or Lancian CUltural región.

*** First of all, is there any official "canon" list of these autonomous, semi-autonomous, or desiring-to-be-autonomous areas? ***

Like most of Traveller, this a grey area, open to question and speculation... Of course, that might be part of the genius of Traveller is that so much of it is undefined and able to be filled in by the referee and player.

The T5 novel, Agent, specifically details the aspirations of one of these desiring-to-be-autonomous zones...

Assuming they have Autonomous governments, they should have an Imperial representative. IMHO it should not be a Duke, as Dukes are the Ranking Nobles for a Subsector, but not more autonomous tan other divisions of the Imperium.

I would say yes and your idea that it should be a duke sounds very reasonable. It should probably not be a sector duke though. Lower than that.

After studying and enjoying Traveller now for several decades, it would probably be apt to call the Third Imperium, a government of "Dukes". LOL

Should this Imperial Representative be a Nobiliary Rank (and so for life and probably hereditary, as a Dike is) or an Office (so a temporary post, as and aldmiral is)? And how are they called and what atributions they have?

*** Depends on who appoints him? Was it a sector duke, arch duke, the Emperor, etc.? ***

I can see different political options for each and not all of them might prefer a noble candidate.

Thanks!

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[whulorigan]

Hi McPerth,

*** First of all, is there any official "canon" list of these autonomous, semi-autonomous, or desiring-to-be-autonomous areas? ***

CT: Sup10 Solomani Rim, p.7:

The Vegan District is under a single, centralized government. State power is contained in a civil service, chosen and promoted by competitive examination

CT: AM6 Solomani, p.20:

Within Imperial-dominated territory is the Vegan Autonomous District, a nominally independent region which acknowledges ultimate lmperial authority.

CT: Sup11: LDNZ, p.30:

Vegan Autonomous District: After the pyrrhic victory over the Solomani at Terra in 1002, the lmperium found that it could not completely conquer and absorb the Solomani Sphere. The lmperial high command decided to create the Vegan Autonomous District to act as a counterweight to the remnants of the Solomani Confederation. The Vegans have complete internal control over their district, but free passage is guaranteed for lmperial citizens and goods. Although many factors have contributed to the present peace and stability along the Solomani Rim, it cannot be denied that the creation of the Vegan Autonomous District has achieved its original purpose. The worlds of the Vegan Autonomous District are under a single, centralized government. State power is contained in a civil service, chosen and promoted by competitive examinations.

MT:IE, p. 17:

Antares, League of: The League of Antares (although it does not include the Antares system) is an autonomous region within the Imperium The worlds were originally pressed into the Imperium in 89 during the Antarean Pacification Campaign The worlds were occupied by the Julian Protectorate during the Julian War. When regained for the Imperium at the end of that war, the peace terms included a mandate that the League of Antares be given limited autonomy for control of trade, commerce, and internal affairs. The autonomy of the League of Antares served as a model for the later establishment of the Solomani Autonomous Region

MT:RSb, p. 55:

Julian War.
.
.
It took until 191, however, for the war to end. Julian insisted on retaining a hand in the Antares Cluster. By way of compromise, the cluster was established as the League of Antares and given an autonomous status within the Imperium. While the League acknowledged the supremacy of the Imperium, it retained its own rights to negotiate diplomatically and to maintain its own armed forces.

 

[Highorbit_drifter]

Nice work WHULorigan!

 

[GypsyComet]

The Suerrat are native to the world Ilelish, and were the group that engaged in the Ilelish Revolt against the Third Imperium in the 400's, and were put down rather forcibly. I am fairly certain that they were not granted any degree of "home rule" or cultural independence post-400's.

They are also roughly half of the population of Ilelish Sector. Count the High Pops and do the math, and it become apparent that they are a huge cultural presence. Presently autonomous en mass or not, their ways of doing things are going to be prevalent on many important worlds in the sector.

This being the Imperium, "autonomous" has layers of meaning. Most worlds are free to run their own affairs, so the Suerrat ways of governance and language will make their region feel like another nation.

 

[whulorigan]

They are also roughly half of the population of Ilelish Sector. Count the High Pops and do the math, and it become apparent that they are a huge cultural presence. Presently autonomous en mass or not, their ways of doing things are going to be prevalent on many important worlds in the sector.

This being the Imperium, "autonomous" has layers of meaning. Most worlds are free to run their own affairs, so the Suerrat ways of governance and language will make their region feel like another nation.

That is of course a very good point. I guess what I meant to say is that they are not "officially" autonomous (i.e. de jure) but may be so de facto culturally.

 

[inexorabletash]

I guess there are many more such regions than those shown in the Travellermap (Unión of Sufren, as described in MT:Astrogator's Guide to Diaspora, or Easter Concord, just to guive some examples), yet they are not marked on the map. So, I assumed those given as internal borders in the map are the ones that have some degree of autonomy...

I don't think that's a safe assumption. We (the T5SS crew + me) started calling out some of the regions towards the end of the last big push (i.e. before DonM passed away). Any that you don't see may simply not have been tackled yet. And regions such as the Sylean Worlds in Core are certainly not autonomous, just a historical/cultural region.

Those in the Solomani Confederation are the not yet reviewed - but well researched - work by Randy Dorman (and I tossed in the Bootean Federation borders from IL#2). Ditto the Addaxur Reserve in Tienspevnekr.

That said, I don't want to drill down to showing every single duchy or county as it would make the map a mess.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I don't think that's a safe assumption. We (the T5SS crew + me) started calling out some of the regions towards the end of the last big push (i.e. before DonM passed away). Any that you don't see may simply not have been tackled yet. And regions such as the Sylean Worlds in Core are certainly not autonomous, just a historical/cultural region.

Those in the Solomani Confederation are the not yet reviewed - but well researched - work by Randy Dorman (and I tossed in the Bootean Federation borders from IL#2). Ditto the Addaxur Reserve in Tienspevnekr.

That said, I don't want to drill down to showing every single duchy or county as it would make the map a mess.

The wiki can cover what detail that the Traveller Map does not.

And there are plans to provide better interoperability between the two platforms.

By the way, the wiki has all of those polities, sub-polities, and more.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Hyphen]

How does Google Maps deal with this? I mean, if I search for a suurb or locality, it zooms to a level just small enough to encompass the area, then highlights and borders it.

No,I have *no* idea how to program this feature. :-(

 

[dmccoy1693]

*tries realy hard not to make a joke* *Fails* The Dude.

 

[RandyB]

*tries realy hard not to make a joke* *Fails* The Dude.

He Abides.

 

[inexorabletash]

How does Google Maps deal with this?

The large, full time engineering team working on it for multiple years is at least a part of it.