When were J2, J3, J4 Jump Drives etc discovered?

[Malenfant]

Are there any canonical dates for when the Solomani, Hivers, Aslan, Vargr, and K'Kree discovered J2, J3, J4, J5, and J6?

I'm guessing there's some dates for the Sollies due to the Interstellar Wars, but what about the others?

 

[Malenfant]

Are there any canonical dates for when the Solomani, Hivers, Aslan, Vargr, and K'Kree discovered J2, J3, J4, J5, and J6?

I'm guessing there's some dates for the Sollies due to the Interstellar Wars, but what about the others?

 

[Valarian]

Mal, a lot of the dates I can find seem to be for jump-1 discovery. I've had a look through for jump dates. This is what I've been able to glean from the resources I have to hand. Check out The Traveller Timeline for referenced timeline information.

Vilani
jump-1 -9235 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-2 -5430 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
developed before the Consolidation Wars

Aslan
jump-1 -1999 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-5 -1014 (Alien Module 1 - Aslan)
discovery of jump-5 route so presume they have the capability

Solomani
jump-1 -2431 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-2 -2398 (GT: Interstellar Wars)
jump-3 -2285 (GT: Rim of Fire)
GT: Interstellar Wars also has reference to the jump-3 being developed during 8th IW and used in the 9th IW. Dated at -2280 in Supplement 11 - Library N-Z - GDW.

Darrian
jump-1 -1395 (GT: Humaniti)
jump-2 -1370 (Alien Module 8 - Darrians)
jump-3 -1370 (Alien Module 8 - Darrians)
reference of jump-2 ships in use with some jump-3

 

[Valarian]

Mal, a lot of the dates I can find seem to be for jump-1 discovery. I've had a look through for jump dates. This is what I've been able to glean from the resources I have to hand. Check out The Traveller Timeline for referenced timeline information.

Vilani
jump-1 -9235 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-2 -5430 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
developed before the Consolidation Wars

Aslan
jump-1 -1999 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-5 -1014 (Alien Module 1 - Aslan)
discovery of jump-5 route so presume they have the capability

Solomani
jump-1 -2431 (MT Imperial Encylopedia)
jump-2 -2398 (GT: Interstellar Wars)
jump-3 -2285 (GT: Rim of Fire)
GT: Interstellar Wars also has reference to the jump-3 being developed during 8th IW and used in the 9th IW. Dated at -2280 in Supplement 11 - Library N-Z - GDW.

Darrian
jump-1 -1395 (GT: Humaniti)
jump-2 -1370 (Alien Module 8 - Darrians)
jump-3 -1370 (Alien Module 8 - Darrians)
reference of jump-2 ships in use with some jump-3

 

[Gadrin]

I think the various GURPS Alien Races books all have timelines for the major incidents in the Aliens. I remember seeing J-X notations for the Zhodani. They're usually in the sidebars.

I was just looking on the CT cd-rom at the Aslan (quick peek) and the timeline is pretty dinky, unlike the longer sidebars on the GT books. I haven't looked at them all though.

 

[Gadrin]

I think the various GURPS Alien Races books all have timelines for the major incidents in the Aliens. I remember seeing J-X notations for the Zhodani. They're usually in the sidebars.

I was just looking on the CT cd-rom at the Aslan (quick peek) and the timeline is pretty dinky, unlike the longer sidebars on the GT books. I haven't looked at them all though.

 

[Malenfant]

Valerian - yeah, the "J1-only info" is why this is so annoying. I can't find any info on the Hivers for example, but it would appear that they discovered J0 (primitive jump drive) in -4698, then proper J1 in -4212, and then in -3986 they met the Ithklur (presumably Hiver space was expanding to intersect Ithklur space, it's not clear who initiated contact).

But it's also clear that by -2204 the Hive Federation had reached their current boundary on the spinward side at least (you can see the Hive Federation on the historical map of the Terran Commonwealth in AM7, and it matches the 1110 boundary), and in -2029 they had reached their current boundary to rimward because the K'Kree ran into them then. It would seem that the Hive Federation was fully formed by -2029 and then just sat there not expanding any further for 3,000 years (despite having nothing on the Rimward, Trailing, or Spinwar side to stop them, and despite the Hivers' inherent curiosity)

So somehow the Hivers developed sufficient Jump Technology to fill all this space in 1700 years... and then decided not to expand any further? I'm guessing that they went from J1 to J6 in that 1700 year period, because how else would they cover all that space? Or am I missing something here, because this really doesn't make much sense to me at all.

Ta for the info anyway, and I'll check out the GURPS Aliens book as well (thanks Gadrin).

 

[Malenfant]

Valerian - yeah, the "J1-only info" is why this is so annoying. I can't find any info on the Hivers for example, but it would appear that they discovered J0 (primitive jump drive) in -4698, then proper J1 in -4212, and then in -3986 they met the Ithklur (presumably Hiver space was expanding to intersect Ithklur space, it's not clear who initiated contact).

But it's also clear that by -2204 the Hive Federation had reached their current boundary on the spinward side at least (you can see the Hive Federation on the historical map of the Terran Commonwealth in AM7, and it matches the 1110 boundary), and in -2029 they had reached their current boundary to rimward because the K'Kree ran into them then. It would seem that the Hive Federation was fully formed by -2029 and then just sat there not expanding any further for 3,000 years (despite having nothing on the Rimward, Trailing, or Spinwar side to stop them, and despite the Hivers' inherent curiosity)

So somehow the Hivers developed sufficient Jump Technology to fill all this space in 1700 years... and then decided not to expand any further? I'm guessing that they went from J1 to J6 in that 1700 year period, because how else would they cover all that space? Or am I missing something here, because this really doesn't make much sense to me at all.

Ta for the info anyway, and I'll check out the GURPS Aliens book as well (thanks Gadrin).

 

[Malenfant]

That said, maybe the Hivers don't have to get all the way to J6 in 1700 years - after all the Vilani somehow managed to occupy a vast First Imperium with only J2 (again, I have no explanation for this) - if you look at the map in the back of the Solomani AM you'll see that the First Imperium in -2204 was about the same size as it is in 1100 (it's missing the Spinward Marches bit but that's it really).

So how the hell did the Vilani manage to fill that whole region with just J2?! There must be loads of regions where you need J3 or higher to get to the next world.

 

[Malenfant]

That said, maybe the Hivers don't have to get all the way to J6 in 1700 years - after all the Vilani somehow managed to occupy a vast First Imperium with only J2 (again, I have no explanation for this) - if you look at the map in the back of the Solomani AM you'll see that the First Imperium in -2204 was about the same size as it is in 1100 (it's missing the Spinward Marches bit but that's it really).

So how the hell did the Vilani manage to fill that whole region with just J2?! There must be loads of regions where you need J3 or higher to get to the next world.

 

[Plankowner]

It doesn't take a J5 drive to go 5 parsecs without refueling. You can put 50% of your volume to Jump Fuel and make 5 Jump-1s. TIME is all that prevents expansion not Jump Rating. Higher jumps are about SPEED not RANGE.

Unless you use Mass Precipitation or some other Non-Canon variation to limit where ships can go.

 

[Plankowner]

It doesn't take a J5 drive to go 5 parsecs without refueling. You can put 50% of your volume to Jump Fuel and make 5 Jump-1s. TIME is all that prevents expansion not Jump Rating. Higher jumps are about SPEED not RANGE.

Unless you use Mass Precipitation or some other Non-Canon variation to limit where ships can go.

 

[Malenfant]

Well in the Vilani case I'm sure I recall that in one of the discussions on the JTAS boards about the Interstellar Wars (when the book was in its planning stages), someone mentioned that the Vilani couldn't have used Deep Space Jumps - something about them being so conservative that it wouldn't even occur to them to do it. The Solomani on the other hand did use them because they had no such cultural limitations, and it was one reason why they won the wars, because they could slip past the enemy lines.

The reasoning for this was that if the Vilani did DSJs then some aspects of the IW made no sense otherwise? I can't recall exactly - did anything get clarified on this in GT: Interstellar Wars?

 

[Malenfant]

Well in the Vilani case I'm sure I recall that in one of the discussions on the JTAS boards about the Interstellar Wars (when the book was in its planning stages), someone mentioned that the Vilani couldn't have used Deep Space Jumps - something about them being so conservative that it wouldn't even occur to them to do it. The Solomani on the other hand did use them because they had no such cultural limitations, and it was one reason why they won the wars, because they could slip past the enemy lines.

The reasoning for this was that if the Vilani did DSJs then some aspects of the IW made no sense otherwise? I can't recall exactly - did anything get clarified on this in GT: Interstellar Wars?

 

[Klaus]

Maybe the worlds in Vilani space not reachable by J2 were never occupied by them.

When the Terrans arrive with their J3+ vessels, it is they who colonise them.

Maybe this accounts in part for the Sollie ascendancy over the Vils in the early 3I. These worlds were more amenable to Sylean fleet elements, and they could set up fortified enclaves within Vilani territory with which to pacify them, much like Norman castles in England and Wales.

 

[Klaus]

Maybe the worlds in Vilani space not reachable by J2 were never occupied by them.

When the Terrans arrive with their J3+ vessels, it is they who colonise them.

Maybe this accounts in part for the Sollie ascendancy over the Vils in the early 3I. These worlds were more amenable to Sylean fleet elements, and they could set up fortified enclaves within Vilani territory with which to pacify them, much like Norman castles in England and Wales.

 

[Malenfant]

What, so all the systems that are more than 2 pc apart just got ignored, and the boundary of the First Imperium is just made by following J2 chains?

Could the 1I even extend as far as shown if it did that and skipped the parts it couldn't reach?

 

[Malenfant]

What, so all the systems that are more than 2 pc apart just got ignored, and the boundary of the First Imperium is just made by following J2 chains?

Could the 1I even extend as far as shown if it did that and skipped the parts it couldn't reach?

 

[Klaus]

Well that's the question.

With the sectors I've had a good look at (SM, Gateway), it's possible to get from one side or the other using J2, given that there may be whole subsectors unreachable. There's only a handful of worlds in the Marches that can't be reached by J2.

Maybe that could explain why the Vilani were all over Ley sector well before meeting the equidistant (more or less) Terrans.

 

[Klaus]

Well that's the question.

With the sectors I've had a good look at (SM, Gateway), it's possible to get from one side or the other using J2, given that there may be whole subsectors unreachable. There's only a handful of worlds in the Marches that can't be reached by J2.

Maybe that could explain why the Vilani were all over Ley sector well before meeting the equidistant (more or less) Terrans.