Who PLAYED IT but doesn't like it. (T4)

[Rawlins]

When T4 came out, I was looking for an alternative to the Dark Conspiracy campaign I was running at the time. My players revolted against the task system as soon as I described it to them.

Eventually I substituted a different task system and ran the game for a year and a half. At that point I went back to CT and continued to use that system when running Traveller until MGT came out.

In my opinion, the most useful T4 products were: 1) Central Supply Catelog, 2) Milieu 0 Campaign, and 3) Naval Architects Manual (for good generic deckplans).

 

[Cylee]

D) keep playing - possibly making house rules and not use things you don't like

I liked it! It was also my introduction to Traveller, in 1997 or 1998.

I was about 12 years old when CT was around and perhaps I wasn't mature enough to understand it, or at least I never got around to picking up any of those interesting looking little black books, until much later anyway.

Were the LBB's shrink wrapped? I can't think of any other reason why I never picked one up and looked at it, even at 12 years old. Maybe there were too many of them and I never knew where to start lol.

Since then I've collected every edition of Traveller, although like many of you it seems, I've always ended up going back to a self-customized version of T4/CT/MT.

Thanks for the task ideas earlier in this thread btw.

Oh, I wanted to ask, was the 4.1 edition of T4 anything other than what I remember: A designation added to the second half of the T4 books, written into the copyright page? The Referee's screen, I remember, had several rules changes (or were they misprints, lol?) from the main rules. Was that part of "4.1"? I would have guessed that the screen came out well before the second half of the books, the ones with "version 4.1" written in the covers, but I'm not sure. What was changed in 4.1?

 

[aramis]

T4.1 differed only in a few typoes corrected, some formatting corrected, and elimination of the half-die, plus (IIRC) "It's Harder than I thought"... at least, the T4.1 "upgrade" file from MWM was just the task system update, and some errata notes.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm curious. Who has PLAYED T4, not people who have only read about it in forums, play tested it but never played the released version, not people who saw a friends copy, or got a copy someone was going to throw away and gave it a cursory glance, but who has PLAYED T4 with a group of people in person or on-line and what are the things you don't like?

Has the experience caused you to
A) stop playing Traveller all together
B) play a different version of Traveller you own
C) go out and buy a different version of Traveller
D) keep playing - possibly making house rules and not use things you don't like

Bought the books, but never played. And now there's no one locally who plays.

But I still enjoy the online company and setting.

 

[Shonner]

Were the LBB's shrink wrapped? I can't think of any other reason why I never picked one up and looked at it, even at 12 years old. Maybe there were too many of them and I never knew where to start lol.

In 1979 or 1980 I bought the first 3 LBBs in a box for $12. Then I would visit the local Mini-City each week to see if any additional books arrived. That's where I got LBBs #0 and #4 - 7. Then that store closed and I had to go to The Command Post to get the rest of the books and games like Azhanti High Lightning and Snapshot, etc.

 

[soloprobe]

Strange.. I bought T4 when it was new....and thought I've gone back to ct, in the spinward marches, I still use T4 .........For my Rule of Man campaign. T4 seems to work for the second Imperium.

 

[soloprobe]

Did anyone else buy "at Close quarters"?

 

[Cylee]

T4.1 differed only in a few typoes corrected, some formatting corrected, and elimination of the half-die, plus (IIRC) "It's Harder than I thought"... at least, the T4.1 "upgrade" file from MWM was just the task system update, and some errata notes.

You're just talking about the errata, not a second printing or edition, correct?

btw, I found some of the Traveller stuff on your website very useful and very much in line with my likes and dislikes regarding the various versions of Traveller.

In 1979 or 1980 I bought the first 3 LBBs in a box for $12. Then I would visit the local Mini-City each week to see if any additional books arrived. That's where I got LBBs #0 and #4 - 7. Then that store closed and I had to go to The Command Post to get the rest of the books and games like Azhanti High Lightning and Snapshot, etc.

Another factor for me was that at 11 or 12 years old, D&D and then AD&D were more than enough RPG for me. If I had been a few years older, it probably would have been Runequest and Traveller, but by then I discovered girls. Sadly I didn't do any gaming for the next 15 years.

Did anyone else buy "at Close quarters"?

I did, although I didn't get to try it out much. I read through some of it and it looked like it has potential. I should find it in my boxes and boxes of RPG books again and try it again sometime.

What was your impression?

 

[soloprobe]

To answer your question , Cylee . It had the look an feel of "Snapshot" Updated for T4 and expanded to use outdoors as well as indoors. I ended up using it for combat in my T4 game.

 

[Cylee]

I always meant to give it more of a go. So I guess since you used it regularly, you like it, eh?

While we're at it, did anyone try BITS Mayday M4.1?

 

[soloprobe]

Like I said T4 works for the second Imperium , but NOT for the third.....

 

[oldgamergeek]

I came up with a New Task Resolution for T4 years ago...

The problem was with the Stat and Skill numbers,
they did not balance out, the Stats were the dominant element, making Skills less worth having. (I'm sure you already know this though)

raising the skill numbers was not an option, neither was lowering the stats, as I wanted to retain the classical look of the orignal Traveller,

it took me awhile to crack this, but I did it,

Task Difficulties
Easy 1D
Average 2D
Difficult 3D
Formidable 4D
Staggering 5D
Impossible 6D
Hopeless 7D

(Yes, also got rid of the 'half-die')


Okay, in this system you still add your Skill to your Stat
But now your Skill level is also a dice pool,
that you add to the Task Difficulties dice pool,
Rolling both pools together and Keeping only the lowest number of dice equal to the Task Difficulty,

Sound confusing?

Example: Captain Jamison (UPP 879C9A) is in trouble again, he draws his pistol (He has Pistol-3) as he dives for cover at the start of the fire fight, he states that is going to return fire on his aggressor, the GM tells him at this range its a Difficult Task (3D), Jamison's player adds his Dex of 7 and Pistol skill of 3 and gets a 10, he needs to roll 3 dice lower than 10,
he then adds his Skill dice (Pistol-3 = 3D) to his Difficult Task dice

So thats Difficult Task 3D + Skill 3D = 6D

Rolling all 6D he gets 6.4.3.5.2.1, he keeps the lowest 3D (the 3,2 and 1 for a total of 6, well under the 10 he needed)

Jamison returns fire and lands a solid shot,



Does that make sense?

I like your fix and would like to use it.

 

[Jame]

Strange.. I bought T4 when it was new....and thought I've gone back to ct, in the spinward marches, I still use T4 .........For my Rule of Man campaign. T4 seems to work for the second Imperium.

I saw it when it was new, and thought "oh, this looks neat, too bad my parents won't buy it for me." (Keep in mind I was 17 at the time). When I got it in 2004, after reading some of it in various places, I still like it but think I'd houserule some stuff.

My favorite part was that every career had a roll for survival and skill each year.

 

[HG_B]

I liked it but couldn't get any friends who didn't posses a science degree to play it for more than a couple sessions... Hopefully, T5 design corrects this marketing hostile approach to Traveller rules set...

 

[McPerth]

Most of my playing in traveller is MT, through I've played CT too.
I studied and tryed T4, but I find schooling too important in character creation, as they make too powerful characters on any edu based task.
Here I guive a comparative example of two chractes from T4 and MT and some tasks for them (I know that Mark is an extreme example as the character creations differences, it's intentional):

As an example, let’s see the history of two twin brothers, Mark and Mike.
Intial UPP: 777777 homeworld St A, Lg size, std atm, wet, hi Pop, mod Law, HiSt TL
In T4:
Background skills: for homeworld: computer 1, grav veh 1
Tables : Mark: survival, computer, clandestine (streetwise),gun combat (rifle)
Mike: brawling, gun combat (rifle), busines (broker), mechanics

First term:
Mark is lucky enough to enter college and pass his perseverance.There he gains +4 edu + 4 skills. Luck dictates all four skils ar jack of all trades. He tries and passes NOTC, adquiring tactics and bureaucracy (leadership). He also is lucky on his honors roll, gaining a +1 ed more. He is naval rank 1.
Mike is not so lucky to enter the college, and joins the Navy. He is not injuried and rolls low enought to commission and promote. He rolls for 6 skills on various tables, adquiring astrogation 3 times, pilot (starship), gambling and bureaucracy (leadirship). He is naval rank 2.

Second term:
Mark joins the medical school and passes his perseverance. He adquires +4 to ed (as this whould up his ed to G, he only gains +3) and 4 skills, luck dictates they are research (two times) and admin (two times too). As for benefits he also gains medical 3 (minimum). He rolls for honors and has them, gaining +1 to medical and computer too. He is now naval rank 3.
Mike follows his career at the navy, not injured and promoting again. He gains 5 skills: vacc suit, pilot again, astrogation twice again, and sensors. He is naval rank 3 too.

Third term:
Mark reports for duty at Navy. He is not injuried and is promoted. He gains skills: vacc suit, astrogation, first aid, carousing and tactics. He is now naval rank 4
Mike follows his naval career, also uninjuried and promoted . he gains 5 skills: techincal (engineering) twice, vacc suit, pilot and environment combat. He’s naval rank 4 too.
After 3 terms, both muster out. Both have 5 benefits rolls.
Mark: he rolls three of them on benefits, adquiring a blade ( cutlass), weapon again (long blade skill 1), and TAS membership. He rolls two a cash, gaining KCr 30.
Mike: he rolls three at benefits too, obtaining TAS, blade (cutlass too) and +1 ed; and two at cash gaining KCr 40.


Final UPPs are:
Mark: 7777F7. Computer 3, Grav veh 1, survival 1, streetwise 1, rifle 1, Jack all trades 4, tactics 2, leadership 1, research 2, admin 2, medical 4, vacc suit 1, astrogation 1, first aid 1, carousing 1, long blade1. Navy Lt Commander. TAS membership, cutlass, 30000 Cr.
Mike: 777787. Computer 1, grav veh 1, brawling 1 rifle 1, broker 1, mechanics 1, astrogation 5, pilot 3, gambling 1, leadership 1, vacc suit 2, sensors 1, engineering 2, environment combat 1. Navy Lt Commander. TAS membership, cutlass, 40000 Cr


Now let’s see their careers on MT advanced character generation ( I resumed the terms instead of describing each year because I know this entry is already long enought):
Background skills: Grav veh 0, computer 0

First term:
Mark goes to the college: +1D-2 edu (5-2=3). No skills.NOTC: naval rank 1. No skills. Honnors: no skills
Mike joins the navy: crew. He enters OCS and promotes afterwards (line officier). He gains 7 skills (basic and adv training, OCS’ 3, and another on duty): navig tree times, pilot, ship tactics. He’s O2

Second term:
Mark goes to medical school: +1 ed, medical 3, admin 1. Honors: medical 1, computer 1. He is naval O3.
Mike: Stays on naval line. He obtains a promotion, special duty (intelligence school), 1 MCUF, 2 CSR, 1 CC, and 5 skills ( three of them from intell. school): navig, interpers. (carousing), forgery, streetwise, gun combat (lasers) . He’s now O3.

Third term:
Mark repports for duty at Navy (medical):he ends the term with a promotion, no decorations, 3 skills: jack all trades, vacc suit, electronics.
Mike: keeps on naval line. Earns a MCUF, another CSR, promotion and 4 skills: navig, battledress, zero g, pilot.
Mustering out:
Both same as T4, changing blade by weapon (laser rifle) and longblade skill by lasers 1 and +1 edu by +2 edu

Final UPPs:
Mark: 7777B7. Grav veh 0, computer 1, medical 4, Joack o t 1, vacc suit 1, electronics 1,
lasers 1. Navy Medical Lt Commander. Laser rifle, TAS membership, Cr 30000
Mike: 777797. Grav veh 0, computer 0, navig 5, pilot 2, ship tactics 1, carousing 1, forgery 1, streetwise 1, lasers 1, battledress 1, zero g 1. Naal Line Lt Commander. Laser rible, TAS membership, Cr 40000.

Now let’s see them on some adventuring examples:

They must find the cure of a unknown disease:
T4: impossible research(edu).
Mark: target 17. 4D to obtain 17 or less (quite easy)
Mike: no way
MT: impossible(med, edu)uncertain:
Mark: 19+ on 2D. +2 (edu) +4 (med)= no way, unless cautious task ( 8+ to succeed on dermination). If so, 9+ to succeed (less than 25% counting the need to succeed on determination). The uncertain result makes even more difficult to be sure about what to do next.
Mike: no way

They are trying to compute a jump on the middle of an empty hex, sensors damaged.
T4 impossible astrogation (edu):
Mark: target 16. 4D for a 16-
Mike: target 13. 4D for a 13-
As you see, you can trust more your doctor with some astrogation knowledge than one of the best astrogators the navy had. Both have a fair chance to do it, through. Note too that if de referee determines that int, not edu is the characteristic, mark’s target whould be 8, while mike’s 12.
MT: impossible (nav, edu)
Mark : 19+: no way, even if cautious
Mike: 19+: DMs: +1 (edu), +5 (navig): no way unless cautious
Even if Mark had navig 1 as in T4 characters, he whould need a 12 to succeed (asuming cautious task and perseverance rolled).

Trying to do any difficult task they’re both unskilled at but referee allows use of Jack all trades:
T4:
Mark: target 12 (if edu), 8 (any other characteristic): 2.5D for a 12- or 8-
Mike: no way.
MT:
Mark: 15+ (unskilled raises it to formidable). DMs: +1 (+2 if edu): no way. If cautious task may be used ( and determination roll passed) 10+, with a retry if failed due to Jack all trades skill
Mike: much the same, but without rerolling possibility.

 

[warwizard]

I use T4's FF&S II as my standard for ship design in MTU, if it can be designed in that rule set then it's in. That said then I proceed to use whatever rule set seems to fit the gaming task best be that striker, brilliant lances, battle rider, fifth frontier war, or Imperium. Shifting up or down in scale as needed. I use the ideas in Imperial squadrons to rate the designs for use in Imperium. You might assume that I do little actual role play with Traveller, and you'd be right, I'm first and foremost a wargamer.