Rules Only: Why Classic Traveller is My Favorite SF RPG...

[aramis]

Why are you fighting so hard to make points against people who are literally stating the rules?

Stating what they think they mean and stating what I think they mean, taking in the totality of the ruleset, I think they're making errors in their thinking.

And yes, I am a good bit pedantic.

 

[kilemall]

Stating what they think they mean and stating what I think they mean, taking in the totality of the ruleset, I think they're making errors in their thinking.

And yes, I am a good bit pedantic.

NO!

Well.

Maybe.

 

[Hyphen]

Getting Mechanical-0 would take literally 15 minutes with the car's book and an Edu or Int based throw(I'd lean towards edu), or have someone show him.

Or 15 minutes with a Hand Computer.

To gain skill augmentation using a hand computer:
Routine, [skill], EDU, 1 min
Referee: If the character is unskilled in the task to be augmented, make this task
Formidable. On success at this task, grant a +1 on the next task using the
augmented skill; for exceptional success grant a +2.
If successful at an unskilled augmentation, grant a temporary skill-0.
The [skill] refers to the skill being augmented – thus the more skilled a character
is, the easier it becomes to augment that skill with a hand computer. Use INT if
unskilled.
Only obviously technical tasks which use EDU and are not uncertain can benefit
from hand computer augmentation.

I also like the idea (which people are trying to introduce even today) that this could occur by of overlaying the schematics and "how-to" videos over the top of the real device (e.g. an engine) by looking "through" a smartphone, or smart glasses. The data/display headpiece comes to mind. I think the term is "immersive computing" - the most famous recent example would be the Pokémon Go craze.

 

[flykiller]

Now we can bicker about what constitutes a trivial task, I suppose.

if you know, it's trivial. if you don't know, it's not trivial.

 

[kilemall]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]Or 15 minutes with a Hand Computer.

To gain skill augmentation using a hand computer:
Routine, [skill], EDU, 1 min
Referee: If the character is unskilled in the task to be augmented, make this task
Formidable. On success at this task, grant a +1 on the next task using the
augmented skill; for exceptional success grant a +2.
If successful at an unskilled augmentation, grant a temporary skill-0.
The [skill] refers to the skill being augmented – thus the more skilled a character
is, the easier it becomes to augment that skill with a hand computer. Use INT if
unskilled.
Only obviously technical tasks which use EDU and are not uncertain can benefit
from hand computer augmentation.

I also like the idea (which people are trying to introduce even today) that this could occur by of overlaying the schematics and "how-to" videos over the top of the real device (e.g. an engine) by looking "through" a smartphone, or smart glasses. The data/display headpiece comes to mind. I think the term is "immersive computing" - the most famous recent example would be the Pokémon Go craze.[/FONT]

Or, use Jack-of-all-Trades.

 

[mike wightman]

Hmm, a MT task for learning CT skills...

 

[coliver988]

if you know, it's trivial. if you don't know, it's not trivial.

Exactly. My players want to improve skills, so I've been doing weekly rolls while in jump, as well as having them getting mentored by the other NPCs on board. To get a level 0 skill should take a few weeks of practice spread out.

Basically I have them roll under either intelligence, education or dexterity based on the type of skill they are attempting. Travis is trying to get small craft, so that is, for me at any rate, an intelligence roll. He has been going out for the wilderness refueling with an NPC, and has managed to fly the pinnace a few times without mishap. So, another few rolls and he will get small craft. If he wants to be able to get hired out, he'd have to take an Imperial exam ( I bring in the parts of GURPs I like ) The good doctor is trying to improve is knowledge of biology which is another intelligence roll.

I've not thought about using essentially Google (or the Imperial Encyclopedia on a chip) to assist in learning and getting things done. So there is more food for thought for me.

 

[creativehum]

Hmm, a MT task for learning CT skills...

While I (always) encourage people to have the fun they want to have, this seems unfortunately convoluted for my tastes. The ad hoc, case-by-case system of Classic Traveller seems easy enough on its own.

Again, one of the reasons I love the game.

 

[BytePro]

CT rules (books 1-3) are my favorite as they are simple and create PCs well suited for story focused pickup games. Love the brevity and digest size of the rule books with their crisp, clear type.

Minimal skills to track, and no XP or levels to account for keeps game mechanics in the background and roleplay in the fore.

Add a pair of dice, pencil and index cards and you're all set for grand adventure.

 

[flykiller]

My players want to improve skills, so I've been doing weekly rolls while in jump, as well as having them getting mentored by the other NPCs on board. To get a level 0 skill should take a few weeks of practice spread out.

do you distinguish between formal school training and informal "this is how they wing it on the ics rusty bucket" experience?

 

[nobby-w]

Or 15 minutes with a Hand Computer.

To gain skill augmentation using a hand computer:
Routine, [skill], EDU, 1 min
Referee: If the character is unskilled in the task to be augmented, make this task
Formidable. On success at this task, grant a +1 on the next task using the
augmented skill; for exceptional success grant a +2.
If successful at an unskilled augmentation, grant a temporary skill-0.
The [skill] refers to the skill being augmented – thus the more skilled a character
is, the easier it becomes to augment that skill with a hand computer. Use INT if
unskilled.
[ . . . ]

Hmmmm ... Does this mean that the authors foresaw Google?

 

[coliver988]

do you distinguish between formal school training and informal "this is how they wing it on the ics rusty bucket" experience?

I'd only give them a level 0 for the self-taught for most skills. So self-taught and winging it work pretty much the same. I've not formalized certification per se, but a self-taught person would probably not be hirable on another ship for that position, but could serve as a backup/trainee.

For level 1+ they will be required to attend some official training of some sort.

And for some things, it really depends on the skill as mentioned elsewhere: I can see getting a level 1 in vacc suit if they use it for weeks on end with no mishaps, and they take the time to read the users manual (its in the front left pocket and no one ever reads the things [well, anything TL10+ the users manual is built into the HUD]) and spend time doing basic maintenance and all that.

But it can be a slippery slope to uber characters. And I've not brought in wafers - not sure I like insta-skill a la Matrix. But this is a SF setting....

 

[flykiller]

I can see getting a level 1 in vacc suit if they use it for weeks on end with no mishaps

(laugh) "I'm still here so I must know what I'm doing."

 

[exedore6]

But it can be a slippery slope to uber characters. And I've not brought in wafers - not sure I like insta-skill a la Matrix. But this is a SF setting....

That's a thing I wasn't sure about, after reading AotI - are all wafers a one-use per person thing? Are compatibility problems a thing? Because that'd be enough for wafers to make sense, without it replacing good old-fashioned study. Also, do you retain anything learned while working under water, or are just as shitty at astrogation when it wears off?

I like the idea for emergency use - crew of a liner gets incapacitated, and the wafered PC's have to land the plane.

 

[kilemall]

I'd only give them a level 0 for the self-taught for most skills. So self-taught and winging it work pretty much the same. I've not formalized certification per se, but a self-taught person would probably not be hirable on another ship for that position, but could serve as a backup/trainee.

For level 1+ they will be required to attend some official training of some sort.

And for some things, it really depends on the skill as mentioned elsewhere: I can see getting a level 1 in vacc suit if they use it for weeks on end with no mishaps, and they take the time to read the users manual (its in the front left pocket and no one ever reads the things [well, anything TL10+ the users manual is built into the HUD]) and spend time doing basic maintenance and all that.

But it can be a slippery slope to uber characters. And I've not brought in wafers - not sure I like insta-skill a la Matrix. But this is a SF setting....

I did work up a certification process and then pegged the pay rates accordingly.

So a skill-0 would be something like a no-pay intern, skill-1 gets half pay, skill-2 gets full pay, skill-3 as an expert gets double pay and skill-4+ gets quadruple pay as befits a master and a legend.

Surgeons get double pay again, so 4x Medics rate at level 3 and 8x at level 4.

Assuming I was running high enough TL to have wafers, they would not be allowed for certification, instead the wafer itself would have to go through certification, as would robots, with a much higher cost due to having to QA entire production runs.

 

[Hyphen]

Hmmmm ... Does this mean that the authors foresaw Google?

More like augmented reality. Imagine an engine schematic overlaid on the engine you're fixing, courtesy of your data/display headset. But yeah, maybe Hello Google or Siri is there to talk you through it as well...

 

[Hyphen]

Hmm, a MT task for learning CT skills...

Yeak, OK, so I didn't take the time to translate it onto something that looks vaguely like CT rules.

All referees reading this, feel free to hack it so it plays like a CT skill. I recommend using RULE 68A as the basis.

 

[robject]

Working from an earlier post:

Focusing on what I consider a fantastic and flexible rules set, I have come across something that utterly confounds me and runs counter to the sensibilities of Classic Traveller I list in the original post above.

Following a link from another thread I found myself reading PDFs of Andy Slack's Expanded Universe articles from the early 1980s in White Dwarf Magazine.

[...]

Now, to be clear, I can see how one could read the rules in such a narrow manner that a man of at least 22 years, with at least four years of military service, might not be able to change the tire on a car....

That's such a narrow, blinkered reading of the rules. I mean, you'd have to ignore the fact the character is at least 22-years-old and accept the fact that he can't do a thing almost anyone on this board can do without any focused Mechanical training at all.

Did people really play this way? Do people really play this way? Is this what some people thing the rules say?

If so I think I've got a handle on the fracture between some of my conversations certain people about the rules.

...and...

has been around for so many decades, in so many editions, and taffy pulled so many ways, that man people get frustrated that the rules don't do what they think they should do

This sort of frustration began even before MegaTraveller, IIRC.

My answer: people don't play this way. They get grumpy when they cease enjoying a particular ruleset.

Andy Slack wrote some good material for Traveller. However, at some point (before or near the time of MegaTraveller IIRC) he bogged down on the rules, then ruthlessly simplified CT to the point of a one- to three-page reference, and then finally went elsewhere (Savage Worlds seems to be his current go-to rules). To him, by the way, I believe arguments like how many dice to roll are missing the point: the point apparently is that dice rolls should be minimized (one per hour appears to be his preference, and yes that includes chargen).

For others of us, once you stop running the game, you start over-analyzing the game. Whether or not GDW intended us to run the rules as Law, game rules only apply when it engages the players. That seems to me to be the primordial imperative.


EDIT: Okay, here's Slack's own conclusion from running CT to do a Firefly-like game in 2015. Editorial adds [in brackets] are mine.

Classic Traveller, even the 1977 edition, still does the job [except for character generation of course, which Andy finds too complicated and boring -rob]. It’s noticeable that the players came up with detailed backstories and personalities with no Edges, Hindrances, Ads/Disads or whatever you want to call them. You really don’t need rules for that stuff, you know.

Play is very liberating once people get used to the idea that it’s all about player skill, the character statistics are largely incidental, and going off-piste is not only permitted but actually expected and encouraged; everyone focussed on the story and their cunning plans.

The party psionic forgot she had psi powers and didn’t use them. I don’t know why this happens in my CT games, but it almost always does, whoever plays the psion; it’s one reason I’m relaxed about allowing them in the game.

None of us felt the need to pull out any figures, whereas with Savage Worlds or Shadowrun we always do that instinctively.

I’d intended this to be a one-off, but the players loved the speed of play and freedom of action, got really attached to their characters, and they want to carry on with them. In addition, all of them want to try Original D&D as well now, with a wilderness adventure. I’ll probably use Labyrinth Lord; OD&D as written is just too disorganised. So I guess 2014 is shaping up to be the Year of Retro Gaming.

One of the group, who runs a Shadowrun game with about a dozen players and has been complaining about how long it takes them to do anything, took the battered 1977 rulebooks away to read, saying he would try converting his campaign to CT to speed it up.

All of this just reinforces my long-held belief that the rules don’t matter. We had just as much fun in the 1970s, and last weekend, with the simplest of rules and scenarios, as we do with any current RPG.

There it is: the rules don't matter. In a way of course he's correct.

 

[robject]

To some degree, even Marc says the rules don't matter. Look at what he did with Traveller5: he designed a complicated set of interlocking rules... and then when he decided to run chargen at conventions (GenCon and TravellerCon coming up this year!) he ruthlessly chopped it down to bare essentials. And the result is fun.

 

[robject]

On the other hand, Andy still likes the shorthand codes Traveller has always used.

This exercise also reminds me how powerful and flexible the Traveller world generation and coding rules are. They have not changed significantly since 1977, unlike pretty much every other aspect of Traveller. Marc Miller definitely got it right there.

He also likes CT'77 due to:
- encounter tables
- animal encounters
- Book 2 starships

But dislikes:
- no point-buy chargen
- clunky combat (noone denies this)